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stoffs

RPM stuck at over 4K

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stoffs

Hi guys,

I own a LSV 23 2008 with the Indmar engine. I was out boating the other week and when I reduced the power the engine would not respond to me. When I came back to idle and out of gear the engine just continued to stay at 4000 + rpm, before I shut it off. Since then I've been unable to start the boat without the engine RPM increasing to over 4000. My initial thought was that one of the cables behind the throttle panel had become jammed or stuck but Ive checked behind there and it all seems in working order. Ive checked the butterfly valve on the air inlet and it is operating as it should. So I then thought maybe it has something to do with the Throttle Position Sensor behind the throttle panel. So I've gone ahead and replaced that sensor as it was only $50. Tried to start the boat today, still no joy. Same issue. Question I have is, do I need to program the TPS? How does the ECM know what idle is when you connect a new TPS?

Below are some of my error codes I am having come up when I try starting the boat. One mechanic I have spoken to suspects there might be a grounding issue. The first picture shows the position of the butterfly valve before start at 22%, which I think is way too high for an engine start. 

 

Once again if anyone has ideas or tips that would be great. Sorry for photo bombing this post.

 

Cheers

 

 

IMG_20170407_165510_zpsyncna9es.jpg

Cheers,

ChrisIMG_20170407_144730_zps4etpm8sb.jpgIMG_20170407_144756_zpseqbx2odd.jpgIMG_20170407_144726_zpslykc9pva.jpgIMG_20170407_144803_zpse12bfphd.jpgIMG_20170407_144721_zpskqphfney.jpgIMG_20170407_144750_zps4inyups5.jpgIMG_20170407_144730_zps4etpm8sb.jpg

 

 

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MadMan
5 hours ago, stoffs said:

 

Below are some of my error codes I am having come up when I try starting the boat. One mechanic I have spoken to suspects there might be a grounding issue. The first picture shows the position of the butterfly valve before start at 22%, which I think is way too high for an engine start

 

 

I don't know what they should be, but 22% sounds like way too much.   Sounds like they are not closing completely at idle (must be, air to support 4k has to be coming from somewhere).

Edited by MadMan

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tvano

i don't know which model year moved to electronic engine controls.

if this is a mechanical throttle then there is an easy off clip so you can remove the throttle cable from the throttle body lever.

i'd remove linkage and see if your problem is a mechanical issue by exercising the butterfly valve by hand.

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stoffs

Hi Tvano,

Thanks for your response. This model is electronically controlled unfortunately. So its all sensors. Ive replaced the IAC and the TP sensor behind the throttle quadrant. No joy still.

Cheers

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95echelon

I might be dumb but have you unhooked the malibu speed control to rule it out?

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Malibuguru0515

2008 should be ZF silver throttle control box? electric shift and throttle by wire. Did you replace the sensor inside the throttle control box and if so are you 100% sure you got the correct sensor? Some PPS pedal position sensors use opposing sweeping voltages, while others use synchronized sweeping voltages.. aka opposing one of the pps will read 2 volts and the other will read 3 volts. the total will always be 5 volts!  synchronized= one will be 2 volts and the other will also be 2 volts.

try to find a friend with a ZF Ski command control box and try that, 4 screws. they fail often. should be the same control box, 2008-2012 ish, excluding 2010 when they went back to morse for 1 year.

 

i don't think 22% is too high with motor off. 

good luck

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Steve B.

You obviously know alot about Malibu's Malibuguru ! Very cool !!  Keep us posted OP.

Steve B.

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Ronnie

Wasn't 2008 when Malibu went back and worked on every throttle control to stop an issue they were having with throttles sticking? Iirc, they were going to the owners to rework them and not having the boats back at the dealers.

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stoffs

Hi all,

Firstly thank you all for scratching your heads. 

I have disconnected the easy pass/cruise control... No joy

My throttle quadrant has one sensor behind it that I contacted bakes marine and replace.. identical part numbers. It's the opposing type and when connected to my computer shows voltages correctly adding to 5V

I'll post a picture of the throttle assembly below. 

I started the engine and took a video of the IAC butterfly valve. You can see it clearly starting to close when the engine fired up but the rpms are still well in excess of 4k before I shut it off. 

My only thoughts now is to replace the ecu with a new one from bakes. Any thoughts before I go and drop 800usd on that?

Thank you all once again

Cheers

IMG_20170502_121233_zpsxhssopwo.jpg

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MattMatt

I can't see your pics for some reason so please forgive me if your pics already covered this.

for the RPMs to go up the engine needs more air (and fuel, but start with air). This means the throttle/butterfly  is either stuck open OR you have a vacuum leak.

one redneck way to test for a vacuum leak is to cover the throttle body with your hand while your buddy starts the engine. If the rpm still shoots up you have a vacuum leak. BE CAREFUL! This will give you a wild hicky on your hand and you risk getting caught it moving parts. I've done this trick dozens of times but I don't want the next post to be you telling us about a trip to the hospital. ;)

Either way, get a bottle of throttle body cleaner and rinse/scrub the inside of the body and butterfly valve. It only takes a tiny speck of crap to cause the valve to stick.

good luck.

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MattMatt

I'd pay to take it to the shop before I'd throw $800 on an ecu.

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stoffs

Hi Matt,

Just for your reference. The images I sent were of the codes my computer is pulling from the boat. The codes are 66013, 65615, 65610, 65604, 65602 & 65601. Which are all either TP or Pedal sensors issues. Now Ive replaced the TP sensor on the throttle and the IAC. Im not sure there are any other sensors I can replace. The indmar manual does have some voltage values so I am going to go down tomorrow and see if the values line up.

As for the throttle body, its operating normally and is not sticking. When the boat fires up you can see it commanding the throttle body closed but this has zero effect on the rpm. they keep increasing instantly.

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braindamage
5 hours ago, MattMatt said:

I'd pay to take it to the shop before I'd throw $800 on an ecu.

This time of year a shop might not get to it until July.?

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MattMatt
7 hours ago, stoffs said:

Hi Matt,

Just for your reference. The images I sent were of the codes my computer is pulling from the boat. The codes are 66013, 65615, 65610, 65604, 65602 & 65601. Which are all either TP or Pedal sensors issues. Now Ive replaced the TP sensor on the throttle and the IAC. Im not sure there are any other sensors I can replace. The indmar manual does have some voltage values so I am going to go down tomorrow and see if the values line up.

As for the throttle body, its operating normally and is not sticking. When the boat fires up you can see it commanding the throttle body closed but this has zero effect on the rpm. they keep increasing instantly.

If the throttle body valve is closed and yet rpms are still going up it's got to be a vacuum leak because the engine has to have air to rev up. Check for disconnected hoses, missing screws or any potential source of air leaking around the intake manifold. Usually we'd start spraying throttle body cleaner everywhere while the engines running in hopes that the leak will pull in the spray and cause the engine to hesitate this revealing the leak. In your case I'd be hesitant to leave the engine racing at 4K rpm for more than a couple seconds.

good luck!

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MattMatt

I was finally able to get your pics to load. Can you visually confirm that the butterfly valve is fully closed (not the linkage but the actual valve)? Make sure you didn't accidentally disconnect the pcv hoses and/or try calling them both to make sure that's not the source of your vacuum leak. You could also try my redneck trick above but with the ignition disconnected and listen for the whistle of an air leak though it will be tricky to hear over the starter. Also don't try it for more than ten seconds so you don't smoke your starter. Good luck.

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stoffs

Hi all,

I live in HK so finding a dealer/ mechanic here is rather tricky. Plus they tend to make things a lot worse before it gets better. Ill take another look at the engine and see if I can find this leak. Ill also do the redneck technique and see what happens. Ive attached a video below that I just posted on Youtube that shows what happens on start up. It hurts hearing that engine fire up like that.

Again thank you all for the time and efforts. Much appreciated.

Cheers

 

 

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MattMatt

Thanks for posting the video. I can see why you are scratching your head. Try the redneck test, if only to see if you can manually slow down the engine. I've used a thin board of stiff cardboard instead of my hand so it's easier to control the amount of air. If you can force the engine to a reasonable speed (sub 2k) it would allow you to do some inspection as well as expirmenting with wiggling wires/connectors and/or unplugging sensors to see if you can get a change.

Unless you are super confident in your water supply you might want to back your boat into the water (but still hooked to the trailer) when doing the testing mentioned above. You'd hate to be so focused on the rpms that you didn't notice the engine overheating, especially at these high rpms. Good luck and please keep us posted.

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ski40mph

Low Battery voltage maybe? Did you try using a known good battery?

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