2015 lsv speaker mounting depth

[shawndoggy]

Great stuff Odin.  My "detached" sub is in an excursion (way back there too) not a boat, so that's a different animal.  I know what you mean for sure about overdriving the sub in relation to the rest of the system such that you can get a directional sense out of it.  That's not exactly what I'm talking about tho.  It's not just "detached," but almost like it's off (slow) by an 1/8th of a beat if that makes sense.  Like the kind of thing that in my experience switching the phase around would usually fix, but here it doesn't make a difference.  Seems like if I could slow the front stage down a hair to "wait" for the sub I might get a better experience?  

(thread drift anyone?)

[tjklein]

16 hours ago, Slurpee said:

Here you go @ponderosasurf.  Fiberglass resin reinforced wood spacer rings.  That I then painted with some black Duratex.  They give you the depth you need and reinforce the panel at the same time.  Otherwise, yeah, I'd have a concern.  Those M880 are beasts.  But my install is a tank.  

Oh and you WILL have to take a barrel sander and remove about 1/8" of the material along the edge of the cutout to open them up enough for the M880 to fit.  Their base is wider than the Rockford Fosgates I removed by just that little bit.  I used a dremel with a sanding wheel after taking a scalpel and scoring the vinyl laminate and peeling off that thin bit along the circumference.  First it set a mark for me to sand to.  Second it kept from fuzzing up my working line as the vinyl would have frayed.

Kudos to Odin at Earmark Car Audio @Earmark Marine for sourcing me the speakers and being a great resource like always.  The next step in the project is to finish up the sound deadening around the engine.  Great results there and I'll post when I've got all the data and pictures and videos compiled.  Then, this is cool... I'm yanking the AudioControl EQS and replacing it with the JL TWK88 DSP.  

I'd also recommend moving the 6.5" locations from the walkway to the floor.  Just don't knick your gel coat like I did with the hole saw. LOL.

And of course the bow.

 

 

 

Amazing work!  This was everything I thought about doing and said..."Nah, that's a lot of work!"  :-)

[David]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Great stuff Odin.  My "detached" sub is in an excursion (way back there too) not a boat, so that's a different animal.  I know what you mean for sure about overdriving the sub in relation to the rest of the system such that you can get a directional sense out of it.  That's not exactly what I'm talking about tho.  It's not just "detached," but almost like it's off (slow) by an 1/8th of a beat if that makes sense.  Like the kind of thing that in my experience switching the phase around would usually fix, but here it doesn't make a difference.  Seems like if I could slow the front stage down a hair to "wait" for the sub I might get a better experience?  

(thread drift anyone?)

So an Excursion like a big Ford SUV? Now that is long. Question is are there other contributing factors beyond the obvious distance differential.  

Is it sealed, ported or other? How far back and which direction is the sub pointing? The crossover frequency?

When most people refer to phase, they actually mean 180 degree change in polarity. Phase can also mean any point in a 360 degree phase rotation or an increment in time. Phase/polarity never seems to work unless the amplitude and frequency are symmetrical to begin with. If not, then changing the phase/polarity simply means a different degree of error, but no audible correction. And that is why it is mostly a useless feature.

Non-linear amplitude changes and changes in phase rotation (whether crossover filters, equalization, or any speaker non-linearity) are inseparable. If you have one, you have the other. No getting around it.

Shocking how many prominent brands do not begin to understand crossover filter function, and exactly why they are designed as they are.

Back to the Excursion. A sedan with a trunk might require 8 feet of time correction when the distance differential measures only 4 feet. A boat is actually far less complex in this sense because you are generally only dealing with the incidental radiation (if the subs are direct-radiating versus concealed in compartments). In contrast, an enclosed vehicle cabin can provide many additional phasing issues.

Btw, Odin has additional sound experience that few of us have. For years he had a second gig as the sound engineer in a music venue where he had to remix the environment for a different touring band every night. Crazy complex. Also having a musician's perspective. He may not be as talkative about it but he REALLY knows it.     

Edited March 17, 2017 by David

[shawndoggy]

Yes the giant suv. 12w6v2 side firing in Ported box designed to jl specs. I've tried the sub firing in all directions tho. 

[Slurpee]

9 hours ago, minnmarker said:

Let's see the TUNE tab.

Oh I haven't gotten that far yet. The TWK is still in its box. Need to get out of daddy duty for a day or so to start playing. 

[Slurpee]

5 hours ago, tjklein said:

 

Amazing work!  This was everything I thought about doing and said..."Nah, that's a lot of work!"  :-)

It's a lot of work. Maybe worked out to 2.5-3 hours a speaker ring. That doesn't count time spent thinking about it. With a better workshop I could do it a second time around in about 2/3 the time. Maybe 1/2 the time the third time around. I'd have never done it if I didn't buy the M880sand need the extra depth. Now though.... I think I'd do it every time regardless. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Slurpee

[shawndoggy]

Just now, Slurpee said:

It's a lot of work. Maybe worked out to 2.5-3 hours a speaker ring. That doesn't count time spent thinking about it. With a better workshop I could do it a second time around in about 2/3 the time. Maybe 1/2 the time the third time around. 

Ha!  A coworker is thinking of doing his own install on a new boat and I told him about how 25% of the time on any stereo job is spent just sitting there staring at stuff.

[Slurpee]

Just now, shawndoggy said:

Ha!  A coworker is thinking of doing his own install on a new boat and I told him about how 25% of the time on any stereo job is spent just sitting there staring at stuff.

You're good at 25%! But the thinking about it is actually one of the more fun parts. If Ronnie ever rolled his eyes at all I know he'd roll em at me when I tell him about things I'm dreaming up. 

[ponderosasurf]

5 hours ago, tjklein said:

 

Amazing work!  This was everything I thought about doing and said..."Nah, that's a lot of work!"  :-)

Second this! The install looks amazing!! However, it looks like something out of my league... may just go the wetsounds route. Any thoughts on the new REVO in boat series? I know they are fairly new.

[shawndoggy]

hey @Slurpee how did you miter the rings?  I've always thought about doing that (more for car installs than the boat) and could never figure out how to miter them other than just putting them on a belt sander.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, Slurpee said:

You're good at 25%! But the thinking about it is actually one of the more fun parts. If Ronnie ever rolled his eyes at all I know he'd roll em at me when I tell him about things I'm dreaming up. 

I never roll my eyes at you any more. Not even surprised any more. I'm impressed with your stick with it attitude. Most (read Non-Engineers) people would never dedicate the effort you put into your projects. Happy to help when I can. 

[Slurpee]

8 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

hey @Slurpee how did you miter the rings?  I've always thought about doing that (more for car installs than the boat) and could never figure out how to miter them other than just putting them on a belt sander.

This is easier to do than you think. Takes a bit of geometry. You figure out the depth at several even points around the circumference. Then you connect the dots. Then apply a jigsaw.  I used Ronnie's 9" sanding wheel to make sure they were spot on flat afterwards but the jigsaw did a really good job. If I hadn't been relying on that big sander from the start I bet I could have made good cuts with the jigsaw.

1) mark an even dozen points around the circumference of the ring. 

2) determine what mitte angle you want, A

3) measure the diameter of the ring,D

4) B = D * sin A

5) then write down a table with three columns and 12 rows numbered 1-12

6) 360/12 = 30 degrees. Write down those numbers in one column. 0, 30, 60, 90, etc. call this number X.

7) now fill out the third column with this equation. Y = B * sin(X)

8) tip: afterwards add a 1/4" to each measurement at least so you are not mitre'ing the ring into a sharp edge. 

9) mark, connect the dots, jigsaw. 

[Slurpee]

Thanks Ronnie.   If anyone wants to volunteer to be the eye roller for me I'm taking applications. Heh. Sometimes I only do a project cuz I see someone roll their eyes. Doesn't mean they aren't right. But I'll try to prove it one way or the other. Lol. 

[Ronnie]

26 minutes ago, Slurpee said:

This is easier to do than you think. Takes a bit of geometry. You figure out the depth at several even points around the circumference. Then you connect the dots. Then apply a jigsaw.  I used Ronnie's 9" sanding wheel to make sure they were spot on flat afterwards but the jigsaw did a really good job. If I hadn't been relying on that big sander from the start I bet I could have made good cuts with the jigsaw.

1) mark an even dozen points around the circumference of the ring. 

2) determine what mitte angle you want, A

3) measure the diameter of the ring,D

4) B = D * sin A

5) then write down a table with three columns and 12 rows numbered 1-12

6) 360/12 = 30 degrees. Write down those numbers in one column. 0, 30, 60, 90, etc. call this number X.

7) now fill out the third column with this equation. Y = B * sin(X)

8) tip: afterwards add a 1/4" to each measurement at least so you are not mitre'ing the ring into a sharp edge. 

9) mark, connect the dots, jigsaw. 

Hey! It's a 12" sander! Size matters.... ☺

[Slurpee]

10 hours ago, ponderosasurf said:

Second this! The install looks amazing!! However, it looks like something out of my league... may just go the wetsounds route. Any thoughts on the new REVO in boat series? I know they are fairly new.

@ponderosasurf, Having changed speakers out entirely in boats twice now to get the sound We wanted.  I will give you this advice. Do not buy based on the hype on this board. It's all very good intentioned informed opinion. But ultimately subjective and therefore just a little bit hype. So your taking an expensive gamble  

Go find someone with the Revo's in a boat like yours or similar and go for a ride. I have not heard them so I have no opinion myself. 

[Slurpee]

Just now, Ronnie said:

Hey! It's a 12" sander! Size matters.... ☺

The man knows his tools. 

[David]

31 minutes ago, Slurpee said:

This is easier to do than you think. Takes a bit of geometry. You figure out the depth at several even points around the circumference. Then you connect the dots. Then apply a jigsaw.  I used Ronnie's 9" sanding wheel to make sure they were spot on flat afterwards but the jigsaw did a really good job. If I hadn't been relying on that big sander from the start I bet I could have made good cuts with the jigsaw.

1) mark an even dozen points around the circumference of the ring. 

2) determine what mitte angle you want, A

3) measure the diameter of the ring,D

4) B = D * sin A

5) then write down a table with three columns and 12 rows numbered 1-12

6) 360/12 = 30 degrees. Write down those numbers in one column. 0, 30, 60, 90, etc. call this number X.

7) now fill out the third column with this equation. Y = B * sin(X)

8) tip: afterwards add a 1/4" to each measurement at least so you are not mitre'ing the ring into a sharp edge. 

9) mark, connect the dots, jigsaw. 

WOW! I just assumed that you found a tablesaw with a 20" blade.

[shawndoggy]

Lol slurp you must be an engineer?  Way too much math in that approach for me. I read "I did 'em when the a jigsaw and then sanded them flat."

[hethj7]

What did you do with the holes in the bow walkway where you relocated that speaker? Got pics?

[LS1boarder]

33 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

What did you do with the holes in the bow walkway where you relocated that speaker? Got pics?

I was curious about that too

[Slurpee]

1 hour ago, hethj7 said:

What did you do with the holes in the bow walkway where you relocated that speaker? Got pics?

 

53 minutes ago, LS1boarder said:

I was curious about that too

I used Ronnie's router and a jig to cut the right sized black 1/4" HDPE discs and just screwed them in where the speakers used to be. Looks clean. I'll put a pic up later. 

[Slurpee]

2 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Lol slurp you must be an engineer?  Way too much math in that approach for me. I read "I did 'em when the a jigsaw and then sanded them flat."

I was gonna do that at first and just eyeball it. But after the pain it was to route out and laminate that many rings I decided to add some precision. The math isn't bad. Just a bit repetitive. But yes.... I'm an electrical engineer. 

[ConnollyCrew]

On 3/16/2017 at 4:01 PM, ponderosasurf said:

Thanks for the quick reply @tjklein  

are you happy with the wet sound speakers? Was really hoping to do the 8.8s but that sounds like it won't happen. Did you run the wet sounds 6.5s up front then?

did the ws808s swap out with the rfs easily? 

The new Revo series are much cleaner and smoother than the XS  series. I would encourage you to look at those. Also, they are direct fits

Revo's are more similar to the JL's in terms of SQ imo.

Edited March 19, 2017 by ConnollyCrew

[Slurpee]

On 3/18/2017 at 10:52 AM, hethj7 said:

What did you do with the holes in the bow walkway where you relocated that speaker? Got pics?

 

On 3/18/2017 at 11:29 AM, LS1boarder said:

I was curious about that too

Sorry it took a couple days. 

[LS1boarder]

That looks awesome!! 

The work you did on the speaker rings is pretty impressive! What do you think about these instead? I would love the LEDs and it should add enough depth to make the JL Speaker fit. I had a fully custom JL system in my last boat and I was always the DJ on the sandbar because of how awesome it sounded. 

JL Audio Marine M880 LED Speaker Ring - NO DRILLING REQUIRED - READY TO INSTALLED - DRILLED FOR SCREW HOLES (Yellow) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TI1D306/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_hPD0ybSGHXJEW