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Ndawg12

No ECM Data Over 25 Seconds

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Ndawg12

This has been a helluvan offseason.  But I'm getting things fixed one at a time.  Hopefully this is the last issue.  I'm getting this message sporadically and it seems to occur more often when its cold out.  In the past I could key on and off a few times and the message would eventually go away but the last time I was at the boat I must have cycled it 20 times to no avail.  The boat will turn over and start.  Air, water, and depth gauges show readings but oil pressure, voltage, and hours are zero when this message is displayed.  Both batteries are charged up and holding at 12.63, I've cleaned the main ground lug on the bellhousing, checked continuity to it from the batteries, and verified all other power and grounds are secure, I've reseated the main plug (the plug that is the equivalent of the cannon plug) several times.  What else can I check?

Can an ECM be bench tested?  

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Cap305

One easy thing to try would be to isolate it on a single battery vs dual and a perko.  Just a thought.  I once had some funky issues with a dual battery setup where it caused the gauges to go bonkers.  Put on single battery and bammo, no problemo.  Good luck.

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boardjnky4

Find the plug/wiring harness that feeds your gauges/medallion unit and clean the connections. Could be corroded. If not, could be the medallion unit which I believes takes inputs from the ECM and feeds your gauges.

 

If the boat runs, then your ECM works. It can also be plugged into DIACOM to confirm it's reading correctly, but again, if it's running then it's working.

Edited by boardjnky4

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Ndawg12
9 hours ago, Cap305 said:

One easy thing to try would be to isolate it on a single battery vs dual and a perko.  Just a thought.  I once had some funky issues with a dual battery setup where it caused the gauges to go bonkers.  Put on single battery and bammo, no problemo.  Good luck.

I bypassed the perko and the second battery and no change, all the connections seemed tight, thanks though, always a good idea to double check that stuff.

8 hours ago, boardjnky4 said:

Find the plug/wiring harness that feeds your gauges/medallion unit and clean the connections. Could be corroded. If not, could be the medallion unit which I believes takes inputs from the ECM and feeds your gauges.

 

If the boat runs, then your ECM works. It can also be plugged into DIACOM to confirm it's reading correctly, but again, if it's running then it's working.

Man, I pulled the main plug to the minimmdc and pulled the minimmdc out, cut all the zip ties that held all the wiring from the minimmdc to the gauges, disconnected, inspected connections, cleaned up a ground wire connection and reinstalled everything...no help.  I'm now leaning towards a bad minimmdc.  Like the ecm, a minimmdc is a electrical component that once purchased can not be returned.  So now my question is, does a minimmdc just quit working or can it be flaky and sometimes work and sometimes not?

Any other troubleshooting tips?

Anyone have one of these laying around I could borrow with the option to purchase if it fixes my problem?

IMG_2362_zpss6rnu7aw.jpg

 

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electricjohn

Is there a connection between the mmdc and the ecm that does not pass thru the cannon plug that you may be missing?  Perhaps a data cable?

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Ndawg12
44 minutes ago, electricjohn said:

Is there a connection between the mmdc and the ecm that does not pass thru the cannon plug that you may be missing?  Perhaps a data cable?

Didn't think to check that, I'll look at it tonight.  I do know that there was a 4 wire connector not connected to anything ziptied up with the rest of the wiring leading to and from the MMDC, I cut it all loose but for the life of me couldn't find where it was supposed to be connected, guessing it's for an accessory that I don't have.  I'll take a pic and post it just in case.

 

There wouldn't be a difference in MMDC's  for a Hammerhead versus a Monsoon would there?  Could I sneak over and steal my buddy's and swap them out? :biggrin:

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boardjnky4

There probably isn't any difference. The difference would be in the ECM.

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Ndawg12
2 hours ago, boardjnky4 said:

There probably isn't any difference. The difference would be in the ECM.

That's what I'm thinking and hoping for.  @jcon44 has agreed to let me borrow his to test (he's a pretty cool dude, you guys should give him a break :biggrin: ).  I'm impatient to figure this out so I sorta hope it's the problem but then I sorta dont, it's expensive and I haven't found the exact model online yet, all the one's I've found state they're for a Mastercrap.

With that said can anyone verify with certainty that the signal for air temp, water temp, and depth do NOT run through the MMDC?  The more I think about it I don't think that whole gauge would run need to run through the MMDC since water speed is from the paddlewheel, I wouldn't think any of those 4 require communication from the ecm.  RPM, engine hours, voltage, and oil psi data I could see coming from the ecm.  I apologize I'm babbling but does that make sense and reasonable?

 

13 hours ago, electricjohn said:

Is there a connection between the mmdc and the ecm that does not pass thru the cannon plug that you may be missing?  Perhaps a data cable?

I found this hard to do because it's tough to figure out how many and which wires are coming in from the ecm to the mmdc and which are going out to the gauges, they all connect to the mmdc in a single wire loom and large connector, I think the older styles had a seperate input and output connector.  I guess I could have noted what colors the wires are coming out of the "cannon plug" going to the mmdc but after inspecting the mmdc connector I have no reason to believe that any wires have pulled loose, plus it was 30 degrees and windy :blush:

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boardjnky4
9 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

That's what I'm thinking and hoping for.  @jcon44 has agreed to let me borrow his to test (he's a pretty cool dude, you guys should give him a break :biggrin: ).  I'm impatient to figure this out so I sorta hope it's the problem but then I sorta dont, it's expensive and I haven't found the exact model online yet, all the one's I've found state they're for a Mastercrap.

With that said can anyone verify with certainty that the signal for air temp, water temp, and depth do NOT run through the MMDC?  The more I think about it I don't think that whole gauge would run need to run through the MMDC since water speed is from the paddlewheel, I wouldn't think any of those 4 require communication from the ecm.  RPM, engine hours, voltage, and oil psi data I could see coming from the ecm.  I apologize I'm babbling but does that make sense and reasonable?

 

I found this hard to do because it's tough to figure out how many and which wires are coming in from the ecm to the mmdc and which are going out to the gauges, they all connect to the mmdc in a single wire loom and large connector, I think the older styles had a seperate input and output connector.  I guess I could have noted what colors the wires are coming out of the "cannon plug" going to the mmdc but after inspecting the mmdc connector I have no reason to believe that any wires have pulled loose, plus it was 30 degrees and windy :blush:

It's kinda hard to say unless I can crawl around the boat. I'd suggest tracing wires from the gauges and seeing where they all go. It's possible that they pipe all of the inputs into the MMDC then just have one harness that interfaces the MMDC into the gauge. Think of your gauges as more of a computer monitor than anything.

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jcon44
9 hours ago, Ndawg12 said:

That's what I'm thinking and hoping for.  @jcon44 has agreed to let me borrow his to test (he's a pretty cool dude, you guys should give him a break :biggrin: ). 

You're going to ruin my street cred..............................:dontknow:

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Ndawg12

I am almost 100% convinced that this problem is temperature related.  Now that it has warmed up to about 50, probably 60 or so under the cover in the sun, all gauges are working fine.  It's supposed to get cold again tonight so I'll check it again.  I don't expect to be boating in 30 degree weather this summer so unless anyone has any more insight I might just forget about it and deal with it if and when it arises.  The cold streak over the last few days drained my batteries down to 12.38 from a freshly charged 12.63 a few days ago, just sitting there with the selector switch off.  Thinking new batteries are in my future :cry:

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tvano
1 hour ago, Ndawg12 said:

I am almost 100% convinced that this problem is temperature related.  Now that it has warmed up to about 50, probably 60 or so under the cover in the sun, all gauges are working fine.  It's supposed to get cold again tonight so I'll check it again.  I don't expect to be boating in 30 degree weather this summer so unless anyone has any more insight I might just forget about it and deal with it if and when it arises.  The cold streak over the last few days drained my batteries down to 12.38 from a freshly charged 12.63 a few days ago, just sitting there with the selector switch off.  Thinking new batteries are in my future :cry:

are marginal batteries that are cold the root cause of your lack of ecm data stream?

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Ndawg12

So I tried it again tonight, temperature is down to about 40.  I could not get that gauge(that i think is totally dependent on the mmdc) to work.  Brought the mmdc inside and put it on a register for about 10 minutes and warmed it up, took it outside and it worked...for about 10 minutes and many key cycles.  It then cooled and then zeros.  Did this cycle 3 times with the same results.  I then decided to save myself a trip out and back into the boat, I stuck the damn thing on my chest under my coat for a few minutes, warmed it back up, and sure enough it worked for a few minutes until it cooled.  I did this 4 times with the same results :crazy:  FWIW, when it works, it stays on, I've never had the message come on while the key was left on.  It's only when I cycle it off and back on, it's like the mmdc reaches a temperature that's too cold and it stops communicating with the gauge.

3 hours ago, tvano said:

are marginal batteries that are cold the root cause of your lack of ecm data stream?

I agree the batteries are issue that will be addressed but I don't think it matters here.  I cycled through 1, 2, 1&2 and nothing changed any of the results above.  If the mmdc was warm enough then it would work no matter what the voltage was.  Case in point, several times I turned on everything, lights, ballast pumps, heater, radio, this drew the voltage down to 11.2 and the message flashed "voltage below threshold 11.5" I cycled the key and it worked.  Turned everything off performed a few more key cycles before it stopped working.  

:dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow:

 

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boardjnky4

It's probably a bad solder joint expanding and contracting causing it to not make proper contact upon contraction.

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Ndawg12
11 hours ago, boardjnky4 said:

It's probably a bad solder joint expanding and contracting causing it to not make proper contact upon contraction.

That makes sense to me as well and i had the board out of it yesterday, looking for anything out of the ordinary, bloated capaciters, burn marks, etc. and didn't see anything so I sealed it back up.  I wonder if there are companies out there that do that sort of thing.

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boardjnky4
5 minutes ago, Ndawg12 said:

That makes sense to me as well and i had the board out of it yesterday, looking for anything out of the ordinary, bloated capaciters, burn marks, etc. and didn't see anything so I sealed it back up.  I wonder if there are companies out there that do that sort of thing.

MEFI Burn will actually repair ECMs. I'm sure if you sent them an email and explained the situation they may be willing to take a look at it? Just hard with it being a conditional problem and questionable if they have a way to test it. Maybe try contacting Medallion as well.

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