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braindamage

marine audio recommendation

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braindamage

I'm super busy with work this year, but my wife really wants me to rip-replace our boat sound system. I'm not a big music guy but I enjoy some tunes while out on the water.

does anyone have a recommendation of a place in Southeast/central/eastern Wisconsin or northern Illinois that can guide me with recommendations, are good installers, and won't cost me a fortune?

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jrvs23

I was recommended AMS mobile electronics in Madison. I stopped in and talked to them last winter while thinking about replacing my existing stuff. Had a good selection of marine HU'S and speakers. I'm going to have to address this soon as well my speakers really sounded bad last fall.

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braindamage
On 2/16/2017 at 0:15 PM, jrvs23 said:

I was recommended AMS mobile electronics in Madison. I stopped in and talked to them last winter while thinking about replacing my existing stuff. Had a good selection of marine HU'S and speakers. I'm going to have to address this soon as well my speakers really sounded bad last fall.

Thanks! I'll stop there this weekend if they are open.

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Stevo

Show us what u got, and what you want to do.

there are plenty of us that can walk you through it, save you some $$ and get what u want ,

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braindamage

I have:

Pyle PLMRMP3A 4 channel amp

JL MBT-RX Bluetooth adapter

PLMR60B 6.5" speakers in dash

Stock 6.5" speakers in rear

??? Tower Speakers.  Separate tweeters on tower were lost long ago

??? 10" sub-woofer (maybe a 12", it's not connected - Pyle doesn't have enough ummph)

The winter cover is still on so I don't have all the details.

I'd like to rip/replace with a total re-do.  Some goals:

1) We never use the radio.  We only play music through smartphones/Ipods.  The original stereo head unit is only in the circuit as the power source.  I plan to eliminate it.

2) I'd like to get sound to the bow.  I'm not sure how to do this.  The opening between the cushion and seat is only 4" and I think a small speaker there is probably a waste of money.  Right now we turn the tower speakers forward.

3) I don't listen to music while behind the boat.  We ski 90% of the time, wakeboard 10% of the time and tube when we are hosting fiends with small kids.  The current tower speakers aren't audible at all while behind the boat.  I'm not sure if this is something I want to get or not.

4) The only volume control is from the cell phone (or a hardwired control that I never mounted that just lives in the glove box).  This is a pain, so I'd like to get a controller that I can mount somewhere within reach of the driver and spotter.

5) I only have 1-battery.  I would like to add a dual battery and Perko switch.

I stopped by AMS and they said $2-3.5K for a full re-do, including amps, BT adapter, replacement speakers, sub-woofer, and installation.  This seemed pretty reasonable.  All JL equipment.  I didn't get a detailed BOM, so I'll look up on the 'net and get an idea of what they talked with me about.  They said that in order to give a firm estimate I would need to take the boat there so they could inspect it.

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jrvs23

If you don't need to hear behind the boat, why have the tower speakers? I would just add the speakers you want in the bow and do the rest.

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Slurpee
22 minutes ago, jrvs23 said:

If you don't need to hear behind the boat, why have the tower speakers? I would just add the speakers you want in the bow and do the rest.

In my '01 VLX I added a pair of 6.5" to the bow and made sure all the speakers in the boat were some nice JL MX650's and drove them with a good power from a JL XD600/6 and I never needed my tower speakers at all to enjoy very full well imaged sound in the boat in any situation.  There was of course a nice JL sub as well driven from one of the bridged outputs of my JL HD600/4.  I used the Wetsounds EQS to tweak the sub and the highs as needed.  With the windshield speakers those highs could get a little bright and odd sounding so a little nudge on the knob and bliss (for a boat).

I loved the sound in my old boat.  I'm still trying to get my new '16 to sound as good.

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Stevo

http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-7650-Add-A-Battery-System-with-ACR-and-Battery-Switch_p_1616.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA6OnFBRDcgt7YmPKI33ESJACJoTJY-QSBNaOANMjVZEWmuIyrODaAsX8GccFnarS0Z_qZ7RoCFcPw_wcB

I'd get that list so we can talk apples and apples.

 exile ZLD with DMC or a WS420BT, the EQ will act as your head unit via Bluetooth or aux cable. Also allows fine tuning and zone controls.

whats up with your Sub? What kind of enclosure?

i love the exile javelin amp, 5 channels, great power to in boat speakers and solid watts to sub on the 5th channel 

When we start talkin towers the sxtq9's, Icon 8's , MX770, are where you can stay below $1k for the pair. All would require a 2nd amp to properly power.

 

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braindamage
On 3/4/2017 at 6:57 PM, Slurpee said:

In my '01 VLX I added a pair of 6.5" to the bow and made sure all the speakers in the boat were some nice JL MX650's and drove them with a good power from a JL XD600/6 and I never needed my tower speakers at all to enjoy very full well imaged sound in the boat in any situation.  There was of course a nice JL sub as well driven from one of the bridged outputs of my JL HD600/4.  I used the Wetsounds EQS to tweak the sub and the highs as needed.  With the windshield speakers those highs could get a little bright and odd sounding so a little nudge on the knob and bliss (for a boat).

I loved the sound in my old boat.  I'm still trying to get my new '16 to sound as good.

Where did you mount the bow speakers? below the seats?

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braindamage

So I've reconstructed the BOM that I talked about with the stereo shop/installer.

The Sales-guy said that he would power the cabin speakers and subwoofer off an 8-channel amp, then have a separate amp for the tower speakers.  In addition, we would mount new bow speakers most likely below the seats.

Qty    Catalog Number    Description                    Price/Ea
3    M650-CCX-CG-TB    Cabin Speakers                   $410
1    M770-TCX-CG-TB    Tower Speakers w/Cans     $450
1    M800/8v2    8 Channel Amp                            $770 
1    M10W5-CG-TB    Subwoofer Driver                  $310
1    MBT-CRX    Bluetooth Receiver                        $100
1    M200/2    Tower amp                                     $350
                
                                                        Total         $3,210 

If I change out the M-series for MX series the total is closer to $2500.

Add battery and switch  $200ish 

Add to that $600-1000 for installation and I don't see how he arrives at the $2-$3.5K price point, unless one or many of these components are heavily discounted. Maybe he had another way of doing it in his mind, but this seems to align to what he said.

Edited by braindamage

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braindamage
On 3/4/2017 at 7:39 PM, Stevo said:

http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-7650-Add-A-Battery-System-with-ACR-and-Battery-Switch_p_1616.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA6OnFBRDcgt7YmPKI33ESJACJoTJY-QSBNaOANMjVZEWmuIyrODaAsX8GccFnarS0Z_qZ7RoCFcPw_wcB

I'd get that list so we can talk apples and apples.

 exile ZLD with DMC or a WS420BT, the EQ will act as your head unit via Bluetooth or aux cable. Also allows fine tuning and zone controls.

whats up with your Sub? What kind of enclosure?

i love the exile javelin amp, 5 channels, great power to in boat speakers and solid watts to sub on the 5th channel 

When we start talkin towers the sxtq9's, Icon 8's , MX770, are where you can stay below $1k for the pair. All would require a 2nd amp to properly power.

I'm not sure what is the deal with my Sub.  It's in an enclosure that was constructed by the malibu dealer from the previous owner.  Unfortunately I don't have pics because the winter cover is on.  I've never had an amp to power it so it just sits.

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Slurpee
12 hours ago, braindamage said:

Where did you mount the bow speakers? below the seats?

Lastly, y'all might know my model of Sunsetter VLX only has 4 speakers. Two in the rear and two under the windshield. Well, 3 of the 4 went out after 10 years of life and I set out to replace them. After a ridiculous amount of sweating and swearing I got the windshield off and the speakers all repleaced with some very nice Polk MoMo pairs. Then, I decided I needed sound in the bow. Well, there is no where to put it. So with some help from Ronnie we fabricated a ABS plastic mount to sit in the storage pockets in the bow. These received a third pair of Polk MoMo speakers.

[ABS Plastic Shell]

[Carpeted Shell] - I carpeted one side and put several layers of fiberglass on the inside to stiffen up the frame and give myself something to screw the speaker into.

[installed Speaker]

 Howdy @braindamage,Here's the relevant text from my Born Again Fakesetter topic at New Speakers in Born Again Fakesetter.  I made a wooden form and had a shop vacuum form some ABS around it.  Then I cut the speaker hole, trimmed the edges, put a few layers of fiberglass on the inside, and carpet on the outside.  And screwed it down in the pocket in the box.

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David
12 hours ago, braindamage said:

So I've reconstructed the BOM that I talked about with the stereo shop/installer.

The Sales-guy said that he would power the cabin speakers and subwoofer off an 8-channel amp, then have a separate amp for the tower speakers.  In addition, we would mount new bow speakers most likely below the seats.

Qty    Catalog Number    Description                    Price/Ea
3    M650-CCX-CG-TB    Cabin Speakers                   $410
1    M770-TCX-CG-TB    Tower Speakers w/Cans     $450
1    M800/8v2    8 Channel Amp                            $770 
1    M10W5-CG-TB    Subwoofer Driver                  $310
1    MBT-CRX    Bluetooth Receiver                        $100
1    M200/2    Tower amp                                     $350
                
                                                        Total         $3,210 

If I change out the M-series for MX series the total is closer to $2500.

Add battery and switch  $200ish 

Add to that $600-1000 for installation and I don't see how he arrives at the $2-$3.5K price point, unless one or many of these components are heavily discounted. Maybe he had another way of doing it in his mind, but this seems to align to what he said.

Convert from the M series to MX series 6.5" in-boat speakers. Definitely stay with the M series & 'T' model for the 7.7" tower. The M200/2 isn't adequate power for the tower, convert this to a bridged M400/4. If you're not using a HU, then add a couple of JL Audio zone controllers or JL Audio line-driver/controllers.   

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braindamage
12 hours ago, Slurpee said:

 Howdy @braindamage,Here's the relevant text from my Born Again Fakesetter topic at New Speakers in Born Again Fakesetter.  I made a wooden form and had a shop vacuum form some ABS around it.  Then I cut the speaker hole, trimmed the edges, put a few layers of fiberglass on the inside, and carpet on the outside.  And screwed it down in the pocket in the box.

Great mod!!

Edited by braindamage

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WAwinegrapes
On 2/12/2017 at 10:24 AM, braindamage said:

I'm super busy with work this year, but my wife really wants me to rip-replace our boat sound system. I'm not a big music guy but I enjoy some tunes while out on the water.

does anyone have a recommendation of a place in Southeast/central/eastern Wisconsin or northern Illinois that can guide me with recommendations, are good installers, and won't cost me a fortune?

your wife wants a better stereo in your boat!!!  YOU  are one lucky guy!!!

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braindamage
23 hours ago, WAwinegrapes said:

your wife wants a better stereo in your boat!!!  YOU  are one lucky guy!!!

She did...until she saw the price tag. And yes, I AM one very lucky guy!!

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minnmarker

@braindamage, if you got sticker shock, there are cheaper ways to a nice sounding system.  If you have no need for tower speakers then 4 or 6 in boat coaxials and a sub should be more than enough.  If you get Class D amps then you really don't need a second battery unless you do a lot of floating or sand bar listening.  Most of this is RF so, while not Wet Sounds, the specs are for real and the equipment good quality.

75 watt per channel 4 channel Class D amp for in boats $150  https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R400-4D-Full-Range-4-Channel/dp/B004T0WFVE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1488986934&sr=8-4&keywords=rockford+fosgate+amp

4 Polk MM651UM 100 watt speakers $270  https://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-AA2652-MM651UM-6-5-Inch/dp/B001E5PN2A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488987456&sr=8-1&keywords=polk+marine+speakers

300 watt Class D Sub amp $128  https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R500X1D-1-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B00BF6HYDE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488986934&sr=8-1&keywords=rockford+fosgate+amp

12 inch 300 Watt sub woofer  $227 (on sale) https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-PM212S4X-12-Inch-Marine-Subwoofer/dp/B00UT1DAKM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1488987842&sr=8-3&keywords=rockford+marine+subwoofer+12-inch

Sub woofer enclosure $53  https://www.amazon.com/Q-Power-Sealed-Subwoofer-Enclosure-QBOMB12S/dp/B00NG38WZ8/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1488989653&sr=8-6&keywords=qbomb+subwoofer+box+12

Volume controller $10 https://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-IBR70-Resistant-Amplifier/dp/B01D3L5S9U/ref=sr_1_23?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1488988300&sr=1-23&keywords=remote+bass+level+control

Good Blue Tooth receiver $30

Some cables and wires approx $50

For under $1,000 you've got a pretty nice system.

You can upgrade the in boat amp to 100 watts per channel for another $60 and/or get another 4 channel in place of the sub amp (+ $90) and have enough power for a pair of 8 inch surf speakers on the tower.  Depending on your source you might change the volume controller to a line driver for another $50.

Add bow speakers if needed after you hear the 4+1 setup.  They can go in parallel with the dash speakers so no need for additional amp channels.

Edited by minnmarker
addition

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braindamage
On 3/8/2017 at 10:16 AM, minnmarker said:

@braindamage, if you got sticker shock, there are cheaper ways to a nice sounding system.  If you have no need for tower speakers then 4 or 6 in boat coaxials and a sub should be more than enough.  If you get Class D amps then you really don't need a second battery unless you do a lot of floating or sand bar listening.  Most of this is RF so, while not Wet Sounds, the specs are for real and the equipment good quality.

75 watt per channel 4 channel Class D amp for in boats $150  https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R400-4D-Full-Range-4-Channel/dp/B004T0WFVE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1488986934&sr=8-4&keywords=rockford+fosgate+amp

4 Polk MM651UM 100 watt speakers $270  https://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-AA2652-MM651UM-6-5-Inch/dp/B001E5PN2A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488987456&sr=8-1&keywords=polk+marine+speakers

300 watt Class D Sub amp $128  https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R500X1D-1-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B00BF6HYDE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488986934&sr=8-1&keywords=rockford+fosgate+amp

12 inch 300 Watt sub woofer  $227 (on sale) https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-PM212S4X-12-Inch-Marine-Subwoofer/dp/B00UT1DAKM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1488987842&sr=8-3&keywords=rockford+marine+subwoofer+12-inch

Sub woofer enclosure $53  https://www.amazon.com/Q-Power-Sealed-Subwoofer-Enclosure-QBOMB12S/dp/B00NG38WZ8/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1488989653&sr=8-6&keywords=qbomb+subwoofer+box+12

Volume controller $10 https://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-IBR70-Resistant-Amplifier/dp/B01D3L5S9U/ref=sr_1_23?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1488988300&sr=1-23&keywords=remote+bass+level+control

Good Blue Tooth receiver $30

Some cables and wires approx $50

For under $1,000 you've got a pretty nice system.

You can upgrade the in boat amp to 100 watts per channel for another $60 and/or get another 4 channel in place of the sub amp (+ $90) and have enough power for a pair of 8 inch surf speakers on the tower.  Depending on your source you might change the volume controller to a line driver for another $50.

Add bow speakers if needed after you hear the 4+1 setup.  They can go in parallel with the dash speakers so no need for additional amp channels.

Thanks minnmarker!!

the budget has taken quite a hit over the past 2 weeks. IRS audit, roof leak, dead tow vehicle, furnace repair. My only option is a diy system so this is good stuff.

edit: tonight my wife had an old crown on her molar crack...man, I should have never said I was going to replace my tubes on the boat ?

stevo also pm'd me with a list as well so I'll take a look this weekend.

 

 

Edited by braindamage

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braindamage

Ok...so I finally got my boat out from under the blue tarp of sadness.

here are my speakers:

rockford fosgate 10" subwoofer p110s8 400w peak 8 ohm with enclosure pic.

A74CCFBF-E20B-417C-BE18-AE6F62530843_zps

Front speakers are Pyle 6.5" plmr60b 150w peak 4ohm (I have 2 more in box)

Rear speakers JVC cs-mx623 6.5" 100w peak 4 ohm

tower speakers mbquart qm-130 5" 100w peak 4 ohm. There is a crossover and a place to install tweeters but they have long since been empty.

B2507414-6DE0-4E4F-855E-333AF4602D36_zps

so...I'm still on a budget. Should I get a couple 4 channel amps and use one for the cockpit speakers and the other to power 2 channels to the tower and tie together 2 for the sub? Should I keep my existing speakers? Replace the rears with matching speakers from the front?  Get better or different towers and keep them pointed to the bow?

thanks for your help!!!

 

 

Edited by braindamage

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braindamage

Edit: never mind. This thing looks like a piece of junk after reading the reviews.

Couldn't I just use this? I know it's cheap and probably not great quality sound but at least it would get me through a summer or 2. Thoughts?

Pyle PLMRA830BT Elite Series Waterproof Bluetooth Amplifier (3000 Watt 8-Channel Bridge Ability Marine Amp) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WR6ZZCI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_tpsezbFDX8J0A 

Edited by braindamage

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braindamage

I did some research last night.  I'm quickly learning about stereo stuff.  I'm thinking I may have to do this over a couple of years.

This year:

1) keep my existing subwoofer & enclosure

2) keep existing bluetooth adapter

3) control volume through smartphone

4) Replace rear cockpit speaker with 4ohm Pyle speakers that match the fronts (I have these already. they will be replaced next year)

5) Replace 5" tower speakers with some 4ohm inexpensive speakers (to be replaced next year); eliminate the crossover because I'm not using a separate tweeter.

6) buy Qty 2: 75 watt per channel 4 channel Class D amp for boats $150  https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R400-4D-Full-Range-4-Channel/dp/B004T0WFVE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1488986934&sr=8-4&keywords=rockford+fosgate+amp

    1 for cockpit speakers (4 channel mode)

    1 for tower speakers and subwoofer (3 channel mode) Question: will this amp have enough "oomph" to power the sub (I think bridged at 8ohm it will deliver 100W? RMS on my sub is 150W)

7) Rewire all speakers

8) Add 2nd battery (I have the battery already)

Out the door $550ish

Next year:

- Replace cockpit speakers 4-6.5"

- Replace tower speakers with 2-6.5"

- Add bow speakers with 2-6.5"

- Add sub-woofer amp;  Question: Can I passthrough to 2 additional amps?

- Add a separate volume control/head unit if control through the smartphone is inconvenient

Approx $800ish

Thoughts?

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90oldskool

honest thoughts - you will have enough power to blow the pyle speakers and be back at square one. 

 

If this is going to be a 2 part install/update focus on inboats for one part and tower for the next. 

speakers - use the same 4 ch amp you are looking at with kicker speakers($150 for 4. or 6 for $229)

https://www.amazon.com/Kicker-Replacement-Marine-Coaxial-speaker/dp/B015DA6VCC/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1494336484&sr=1-1&keywords=kicker+marine+speakers 

or get a 5 ch . 4 channels for boat speakers and 5th for a sub or towers . then one amp for the other component. keeps system to a two amp setup this way. 

https://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-5-Channel-Amplifier-PAD5000-5/dp/B005ZKFZEQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1494336606&sr=1-2&keywords=polk+amp

get the inboat sound right before moving to the tower- this is where most people will spend most of the time , including you as the driver. 

 

yes the rockford amps have a output rca to run mult amps off each other. look at RMS rating not PEAK when reviewing speakers. 

Edited by 90oldskool

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braindamage

Hey 90oldschool

interesting. Both you and minnmarker have links to amps that are not marine rated. I'm all freshwater so salt is no issue, so is using a non-marine rated amp a concern?

good idea though, if I use this amp and new speakers I get good cockpit sound and still stay in the same $550ish ballpark. The downside is that I have to choose between the sub and music to the bow.

This may be a really stupid question: Is there a concern about using the 5 channel Polk with the 4 channel Rockford fosgate? In other words, when I added the 2nd amp would I then wire the Polk input to the "pass through" output of the Rockford fosgate?

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90oldskool

polk car audio is marine rated . Im running a 660.4 for my mm651. I forgot where its says it on their website but it has that statement somewhere. Placement of the amp in a dry area will keep them good for a long while. 

"Stainless steel hardware—Used throughout and will not corrode in humid environments."

Yes you could use the pass through of the rockford to a mono amp for a sub. I do not know what type of head unit you have , mine has 3 outputs off the the head unit (front rear and sub)

 

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braindamage
3 minutes ago, 90oldskool said:

Yes you could use the pass through of the rockford to a mono amp for a sub. I do not know what type of head unit you have , mine has 3 outputs off the the head unit (front rear and sub)

 

Got it on the marine rating.  

My question is whether I could pass through from the Rockford to the Polk.  I was thinking that if I did that then I wouldn't need a dedicated sub amp and it would give me 2-extra speakers for adding to the tower.

In other words:

Rockford Amp:

   - Input of Bluetooth adapter (MBT-RX - I don't have a head unit and just connect smartphone to amp via BT).

   - Connect existing tower speakers which face forward for bow music. This leaves (2) extra speakers for future. Next year I would replace existing tower speakers that face forward for bow music (or replace with bow speakers) and add 2 speakers facing aft)

   - Passthrough output from Rockford Amp to Polk Amp

Polk Amp:

   - Output from Rockford passthrough to Polk Amp input

   - Power (4) replacement cockpit speakers

   - Power existing sub-woofer

Or does the passthrough from the Rockford not work as an input into the Polk Amp?  Secondly, I'm not sure if the power rating from the Polk is same as Rockford and will that create a sound mismatch that then I'll have to add in an EQ?  

sorry if these are amateur questions.  It just seems like it would work.

This would make the spend at $700 this year with adding a 2nd battery.  I think I can swing this, and it sets me up for being able to expand to add another couple of tower speakers for the future.

Good?

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