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Mike185

Ski wake 22VLX vs 21VLX

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Mike185

Anyone skied both? Is there a big difference?  I'm buying a new boat this spring (new to me, probably 2013-15 VLX).  I like to slalom.  Not planning on running a course in this boat but I do occasionally run one with some friends (Response). Our crew mostly wakeboard and surf.  The extra foot of space would be nice but I'm wondering if it makes a big difference in the slalom wake?

Also, do most people get the diamond hull or wake?  I'm just curious looking at the used market most ads don't say which hull they have.  Were they all diamond hulls up to a certain year?

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JeffC
Just now, Mike185 said:

Anyone skied both? Is there a big difference?  I'm buying a new boat this spring u(new to me, probably 2013-15 VLX).  I like to slalom.  Not planning on running a course in this boat but I do occasionally run one with some friends (Response). Our crew mostly wakeboard and surf.  The extra foot of space would be nice but I'm wondering if it makes a big difference in the slalom wake?

Also, do most people get the diamond hull or wake?  I'm just curious looking at the used market most ads don't say which hull they have.  Were they all diamond hulls up to a certain year?

This is also the question I have been wrestling with.   I THINK I want a diamond hull 22 VLX, but on the used market they seem to be hard to find.   My research has indicated that the wake hull does not produce a particularly good slalom wake, but the absence of used options we have been looking at new, but it may be a budget breaker.

I really wish I could see a 22 VLX wake hull wake, better yet ski one.

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Mike185

I definitely want the diamond hull, just not sure if the extra 1' makes a difference.  Can't be too much. 

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t a
3 minutes ago, Mike185 said:

I definitely want the diamond hull, just not sure if the extra 1' makes a difference.  Can't be too much. 

The '13 and '14 21 VLX is 21'6".  The 2015 22 VLX is 21'10".  Not much difference in length there.  I believe the 22 is a couple hundred lbs heavier due to more freeboard but prob not a ton of difference between the two.  The 22VLX has lift feature on the wedge which may be better but not sure if you can use it at 30+mph.

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ahopkinsVTX

I believe @Fman has had both the older generation VLX and I know the new one. Maybe he can chime in. 

There is a guide under the resource section to show you how to identify whether or not t s a diamond vs wake hull. 

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Fman

I had a 2013 vlx and 2015 22vlx both had wake hulls.  The 2013 had a better ski wake compared to the 2015.  I think it has to do with the 2015 being quite a bit heavier and longer.  On the 2015 I even tried running wedge in lift mode towing a slalom skier with subpar results. We even tried loading front ballast tank and moving people in the bow to counter the rear weight.

In my opinion anyone buying a newer 21/22 vlx for a slalom tow boat should demo to really get a feel for what it will offer.  They will allow a rec slalom skier to slowly cut across the wave but if your an advanced skier you will be launching off the wake.  They are heavy boats really primarily designed for surf and wakeboarding.

Now possibly the diamond hull would deliver better results?  I have no experience with the diamond hull.

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Mike185

Thanks, I'm leaning towards a 2011-2013 VLX.  Will try to find one with a diamond hull, was just curious if the diamond hulls are more rare than the wake hulls.

@fman were you able to slalom behind the 13' with the wake hull?

There is lots of info and videos out there on the VTX but I think a 20' boat will be too small for us, even 21' is on the small side.  My last boat was a 23' moomba XLV.

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obski

I had a 06 21VLX on wake hull that had a less than optimal slalom ski wake.  I had a few brave souls that gave it a go, but I tried it a few times and did not find it enjoyable to say the least.  I traded that boat in for my current 11 VTX on a cut diamond hull, mostly for the ski wake, but still having the cabin space a v-drive affords, and the ability to put out a decent wakeboarding wake.  I have been extremely happy with the VTX.  Prior to the VLX, I had a 01 SSVLX on a SV23D diamond hull.  That boat had an excellent slalom ski wake that was almost as good as my current VTX, plus an outstanding wakeboard wake.

I don't have any experience on a cut diamond hull on the 21VLX or 22VLX.

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obski
2 minutes ago, Mike185 said:

Thanks, I'm leaning towards a 2011-2013 VLX.  Will try to find one with a diamond hull, was just curious if the diamond hulls are more rare than the wake hulls.

@fman were you able to slalom behind the 13' with the wake hull?

There is lots of info and videos out there on the VTX but I think a 20' boat will be too small for us, even 21' is on the small side.  My last boat was a 23' moomba XLV.

You may be surprised at how much room there is in the VTX.  I didn't feel like we lost any significant space in going from the 21VLX to the 20VTX.  Most of the difference seemed to be in a slightly smaller space in the bow.  I never really liked having more than 3 (maybe 4) in the bow in the VLX.  That was especially true after taking a huge nose dip with 4 big HS boys sitting in the bow.  I had to idle for about 15 minutes to let the bilge pump empty out all of the water in the boat.

It really depends on how important the slalom wake is for you.  We transitioned from a lot of wakeboarding to mostly slalom skiing, so the change to a boat that has a good slalom wake was important to me.  As stated previously, I still wanted the cabin space the v-drive gives and be able to put out a good wakebard wake when needed.  It works well for us.

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minnmarker
33 minutes ago, Mike185 said:

Thanks, I'm leaning towards a 2011-2013 VLX.  Will try to find one with a diamond hull, was just curious if the diamond hulls are more rare than the wake hulls.

@fman were you able to slalom behind the 13' with the wake hull?

There is lots of info and videos out there on the VTX but I think a 20' boat will be too small for us, even 21' is on the small side.  My last boat was a 23' moomba XLV.

The 21 LSV is the same size as the VLX and may be easier to find with a Diamond hull.  I think the only difference is that the LSV has a bigger gas tank and the Diamond was standard.  My 21 LSV (with Diamond) has a pretty good ski wake at >32 mph but when sacked out also has a good surf wake.  Jack of all trades, master of none...

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Mike185
38 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

The 21 LSV is the same size as the VLX and may be easier to find with a Diamond hull.  I think the only difference is that the LSV has a bigger gas tank and the Diamond was standard.  My 21 LSV (with Diamond) has a pretty good ski wake at >32 mph but when sacked out also has a good surf wake.  Jack of all trades, master of none...

I did not know the 21 LSV was a thing.  I thought the VLX was basically a 21' version of the LSV.  What years did they make a 21 LSV?

 

 

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minnmarker

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Sixball

What is your ski speed.  Speed and line length will make big changes.  I have not ski the boats in question but playing wit speed and line length mad a world of difference in my old V drive. As well as all that I have skied. Non come close to a DD for me.   

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Tanglin

I had a 2011 21' VLX with a diamond hull -  reasonable slalom wake at 32mph and above, at least 22 off and with a little ballast in the bow tank.  Traded to a new 2016 VLX 22 again with a diamond hull but the significant increase in weight meant the slalom wake is not really skiable at all for anyone who wants to do anything more than sit behind the boat and go slowly side to side. Even decent recreational skiers get airborne . Tried different lengths, speeds etc and even had PWII in lift mode (helped a little but made boat a little hard to steer at 34MPH and I didn't want to void warranty ).  I have resorted to buying a second boat purely as a ski tug as the excellent performance of the 22VLX as a wake/wakesurf boat has become far more important for the family/friends as the 22VLX gets about 95% of time on the water.

 

I am sure if the Malibu engineers turned their mind to the potential of   "lift mode" at slalom speeds  they might be able to significantly improve ski performance of the 22VLX and probably the 23LSV in time.

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minnmarker

I ski 33 to 36 at 15 off behind my 21LSV all the time. I used to ski courses and would say I can ski 80% of course aggresiveness. The lost 20% is letting off the pull a bit a fraction of a second early so I'm not pulling hard and hitting the wake at the same time. I've never gotten airborn or lost the fin. All good for casual slalom.

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Sixer

For what it's worth I've had a VTX in both a diamond and a wake hull, and couldn't tell a difference skiing.  I ski 34 mph, 15-22 off.

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RyanB
1 hour ago, Sixer said:

For what it's worth I've had a VTX in both a diamond and a wake hull, and couldn't tell a difference skiing.  I ski 34 mph, 15-22 off.

@JeffC, did you see this post?

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JeffC
1 hour ago, RyanB said:

@JeffC, did you see this post?

Thanks, just now.   This discussion is really valuable to me as I am trying to find a decent recreational slalom machine with a good surf wake.   I have been looking for a 22 VLX with a diamond hull but seems the only way to get one is to custom order it.   I liked the 20VTX a lot, but the shorter length and narrower beam make the interior smaller than I would like.   I sat in a 21 VLX at the Denver Boat Show, but again, the narrower beam put me off a little.

At least on my Crownline, I ski about 30-31 (who knows how accurate THAT is).   Reading this thread, I suspect the 22 VLX with a wake hull will be throwing a pretty good sized wake, but maybe it is time to just get over myself.   I know that over time I will be surfing more and more (I am 57 going on 22 years old, but father time will eventually catch up).

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mniba1

I have a diamond hull 22 vlx and the slalom wake sucks at any speed/line length.  I absolutely adore this boat for everything except slalom so bought an older MC Prostar 190.  This is certainly not practical for most so my recommendation would be a vtx.

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UWSkier

At some point, physics simply wins out.  You can't expect a 22' V-drive with as much sheer mass as these boats have these days to lay a wake you can charge at on a slalom ski.  Unless you can get into a VTX or are willing to go back 10+ years to the older 21' diamond models, you will never have the slalom wake you're hoping for.

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Mike185
38 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

At some point, physics simply wins out.  You can't expect a 22' V-drive with as much sheer mass as these boats have these days to lay a wake you can charge at on a slalom ski.  Unless you can get into a VTX or are willing to go back 10+ years to the older 21' diamond models, you will never have the slalom wake you're hoping for.

True.  I'm just weighing the options.  I love the idea of a bigger boat (22 or even 23') but would still like to be able to ski. Former boat was a 23' XLV (moomba).  We will be on Lake Norman in NC which is a big busy lake so 23' would be better for weekend crusing/sandbar activities.  Wife thinks the 20' VTX is too small. 

I guess maybe I should just throw in the towel and plan to ski with friends who have DD's.  

 

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obski
14 minutes ago, Mike185 said:

True.  I'm just weighing the options.  I love the idea of a bigger boat (22 or even 23') but would still like to be able to ski. Former boat was a 23' XLV (moomba).  We will be on Lake Norman in NC which is a big busy lake so 23' would be better for weekend crusing/sandbar activities.  Wife thinks the 20' VTX is too small. 

I guess maybe I should just throw in the towel and plan to ski with friends who have DD's.  

 

Not a bad plan:)

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minnmarker
27 minutes ago, Mike185 said:

Wife thinks the 20' VTX is too small.

She's right. 

As UWSkier said, you may have to go back to the 21 Diamond hulls to get both SL and Surf and "big enough" in one.  I think it really depends on how flat you need the wake to be.  If you want it tournament flat then you have to go DD.  If you're just a guy who likes to throw a wall of water for the crowd once in a while and likes the thrill of a fast cross then the 21 Diamond (VLX or LSV) should be fine.

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UWSkier

Could always try finding one of these unicorns...  247 RX.

133156_0_070320092106_1.jpg

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