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Portmoody911

'15 VLX 350 or '16 VLX 410

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Portmoody911

I am looking at getting a great deal on a 2015 with very few hours on it.  It is loaded but has the 350 engine.  Can anyone explain the differences between the 350 and 410?

We use the boat for everything, I would say 50% surfing, 30% wake boarding, then everything else...  I usually have at least eight people on board.

Thoughts?  How much more would you pay for the 410 engine? 

BTW i currently have a 330 monsoon engine on my 2011

thanks

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BadgerBoater55
18 minutes ago, Portmoody911 said:

I am looking at getting a great deal on a 2015 with very few hours on it.  It is loaded but has the 350 engine.  Can anyone explain the differences between the 350 and 410?

We use the boat for everything, I would say 50% surfing, 30% wake boarding, then everything else...  I usually have at least eight people on board.

Thoughts?  How much more would you pay for the 410 engine? 

BTW i currently have a 330 monsoon engine on my 2011

thanks

Probably best if you post links to both boats, that way the Crew can help compare the two and decide the better deal!  Congrats on being close to getting a boat!

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Fman

There are a lot of different opinions on this...here is my experience.

My 2011,13 vlx's had the 350. At sea level the 350 did the job, my 2015 has the 409.  The difference I have experienced is I do not hit a speed wall at 2000' like I did with the 350.  I have more throttle left with the 409 and the boat planes out quicker than it did with my 350.  My 350 at 2000' would tap out at 10.5 mph, with 409 I can easily go over 11 mph without having to dump weight.  Also keep in mind the 2015 22 vlx also weighs 400ish lbs more than a 2013 vlx.  I can also run a less aggressive prop on the 409 which makes the driveability/rpms a little more friendly than having a complete stump puller on the boat.

I do consume more fuel with 409 over 350, prob avg about 1 gph more.  Extra horsepower does not come free.  The 409 and 410 are also much more updated engines in comparison to the 350.

To each is own but I will never buy another boat with less than a 410/409.  If I only boated at sea level the 350 would be a consideration, but the elevation is a deal killer for me.

I would think the 410 would add another 2-3k extra on price.

Edited by Fman

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KeepingupwiththeJones

I have a '15 with a 350 and I don't have any power issues. With typically ride with a crew of eight(half kids). Surf setup - hard tanks full, 800's in the lockers 400#'s of lead + 1 or 2 adults in the bow. Wedge 2 or 3 clicks from stow. 2315 prop. But I am at sea level.

Took the boat to Almanor last week (4500ish elevation). Definitely hit a wall there. Had 10 people in the boat though. I could surf fully loaded except I had to keep the wedge one from lift or couldn't get over 10mph.

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Fman
23 minutes ago, Portmoody911 said:

I am looking at getting a great deal on a 2015 with very few hours on it.  It is loaded but has the 350 engine.  Can anyone explain the differences between the 350 and 410?

We use the boat for everything, I would say 50% surfing, 30% wake boarding, then everything else...  I usually have at least eight people on board.

Thoughts?  How much more would you pay for the 410 engine? 

BTW i currently have a 330 monsoon engine on my 2011

thanks

The 330/350's will be close in performance.  The 2015/16 with surfgate is a different animal in weight and pushing water compared to your 2011.  Surfgate requires more weight compared to a listed boat and plows water which requires a lot of engine.

I would demo them back to back so you can see the difference between the two.

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Technicallyabu

Eight to ten people and I assume full factory and plug and play 410 for sure.

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Portmoody911

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments, I am only at 1000' at our lake.  With the 330 engine currently I do not have issues with eight people on the boat and surfing with factory ballast and extra pop sacs.  I have never hit the wall with speed issues.  The boat stays at the lake, doesn't get moved at all.  I guess I need to finalize the best deal on both boats and see where the value is. 

I am contacting the dealer today...keep you posted.

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teamerickson

2016 has 5 year warranty?

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t a

I have 15 VLX with 350 and 2419 prop and hit my first wall last week. I run 800's and around 6-700lbs in bow and a couple hundred in lead on top of stock.  There were no ppl in boat so filled up another 400 in cabin.  No issues wakeboarding but my wife wanted to surf.  Could only get to 10.7 but that was with wedge at 2 clicks from stow (she surfs regular).  Could've lowered the wedge but she likes a steep wave.  Next time will drop that 400lb bag for her surfing.

I'm only at 600' ASL tho

Edited by t a
Add elevation

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Nitrousbird

Remember, the 350 in that 2015 was last updated in 1996.  Nothing like buying a new (or near new) boat with the same motor as a 19 year old boat. 

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Technicallyabu

The reason i said 410 was mainly for wakeboarding with weight above stock. The 350 will surf fine with a 1235 or  2315. It will struggle to plain though. And forget using the wedge.

 

 

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endostrat

With bigger boats, more weight, and more ballast, more weight, unless you are sea level then the bigger engine is the better alternative.  If the boat is ever taken to a higher elevation, you'll be happy to have the extra horsepower.  That being said, if you know it will never leave a certain lake and the performance is as you would want/expect, then go with the engine and boat that will best suit your needs and desires.  I have the 15 VLX with the 409 and it has been good to me.

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teamerickson
53 minutes ago, Technicallyabu said:

The reason i said 410 was mainly for wakeboarding with weight above stock. The 350 will surf fine with a 1235 or  2315. It will struggle to plain though. And forget using the wedge.

 

 

The lift feature of the wedge for wakeboarding?

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t a
8 hours ago, Technicallyabu said:

The reason i said 410 was mainly for wakeboarding with weight above stock. The 350 will surf fine with a 1235 or  2315. It will struggle to plain though. And forget using the wedge.

 

 

I have more issues with surfing than wakeboarding.  I get up with no issues (less than 30 sec) wake boarding with 350 with around 2800lbs over stock like I described above.  The lift feature of the new wedge is awesome!  

Edited by t a
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hethj7

Keep in mind when you all are talking the 2015 409 that is not the same as the 2016 410. The 409 is the GM block and refers to horsepower.  The 2016 is the Ford block and refers to torque and has 350 HP but also got the 1:72 transmission.  I think the OP is trying to compare the base GM 350 HP in 2015 to the base Ford 410 torque in 2016.  If pricing is anywhere close to each other I would opt for the 2016 with the new tranny and 5 year warranty.  We did start hitting the wall with it this week, but had a surfband rider trying to  ride at 11.8, full MLS, PNP, probably 600 lbs on the bow seats and 7 adults on board.  We only have about 22 hours on the boat and that is the first time I have found the wall. 

Oh, 2277 prop and wedge at ramp setting. 

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shawndoggy
Just now, hethj7 said:

Keep in mind when you all are talking the 2015 409 that is not the same as the 2016 410. The 409 is the GM block and refers to horsepower.  The 2016 is the Ford block and refers to torque and has 350 HP but also got the 1:72 transmission.  I think the OP is trying to compare the base GM 350 HP in 2015 to the base Ford 410 torque in 2016.  If pricing is anywhere close to each other I would opt for the 2016 with the new tranny and 5 year warranty.  We did start hitting the wall with it this week, but had a surfband rider trying to  ride at 11.8, full MLS, PNP, probably 600 lbs on the bow seats and 7 adults on board.  We only have about 22 hours on the boat and that is the first time I have found the wall. 

I'm not sure that 409 really refers to anything.  Indmar will just tell you that the names of the engines are chosen by Malibu and Malibu won't tell you HP or torque specs.

Sorta how like the 5.7L chevy magically grew from 330HP in 2006 to "350" now, with (AFAIK) pretty much zero changes other than plastic beauty panels and the addition of cats.  Badge engineering.

That said, I totally agree with your rationale for choosing 16 over 15 -- warranty and tranny.

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hethj7

The Malibu manual states 350 HP on the 410 for 2016.  Now, whether you believe it or not is up to you :)

Edited by hethj7

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Technicallyabu
4 hours ago, t a said:

I have more issues with surfing than wakeboarding.  I get up with no issues (less than 30 sec) wake boarding with 350 with around 2800lbs over stock like I described above.  The lift feature of the new wedge is awesome!  

Forgot about power wedge 2. Can you take it off lift once on plain though or will the 350 start dropping rpm?

Around 30 sec is my experience too and having to send someone to the bow. Not really an ideal scenario imo. I'd still go 410.

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Ronnie
33 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

The Malibu manual states 350 HP on the 410 for 2016.  Now, whether you believe it or not is up to you :)

I've wondered how much this is considered on our insurance. Is there a hit over a 350 for the 410, 450 or 575? If insurance companies charge more for higher horsepower motors, the 410 engine torque that we have sounds much more powerful than a 350 HP to the insurance companies.

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Fman

My insurance was unaffected up to 450 HP then it would have gone up.

I have given up on engine and torque specs in the marine industry, they seem to be inconsistent or very confusing  across the boards.  Seeing is believing for me, and there is no doubt a difference in performance between the 2015 350 vs 409.  It is a nice upgrade over the 350.  It's not going to put you back in the seat but definitely gives you more opportunity to run some more weight in the boat, more prop options and help combat the elevation performance issues.

If it were me I would buy the 2016 with the bigger engine.  Although....... I know of a completely customized, turn key 2015 22vlx w/409 coming up for sale in mid september...just sayin' :-)

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Cory

I would not get a 2015 VLX with the 350.  I'd walk away no matter the deal.  You cannot compare your 2011 (pre-surfgate) boat to a boat with surfgate.  Generating a surfable wake using surfgate is much less efficient and takes much more HP/TQ than listing a boat.  I had a 2013 VLX (with surfgate) and the 350 engine.  I had to put the 2315 prop on the boat (top speed at WOT was 37 mph).  I still hit a wall at times.  Even when I didn't hit a speed wall, I could tell that little engine was giving everything she had when we surfed.

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t a
11 hours ago, Technicallyabu said:

Forgot about power wedge 2. Can you take it off lift once on plain though or will the 350 start dropping rpm?

Around 30 sec is my experience too and having to send someone to the bow. Not really an ideal scenario imo. I'd still go 410.

Yes you put it in lift, then once on plane you select what position u want it in.  Then from then on it automatically starts in lift and around 19mph goes to the position you chose.  I haven't come close to hitting a wall on it yet and I'm running pretty heavy. I would opt for 410 as well obviously for the extra power but I personally wouldn't spend 10k more for it or anything.

Edited by t a
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Portmoody911

Great info everyone, I appreciate the feed back.  Not having SurfGate currently makes the comparison difficult.  Your examples are very helpful.  

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DarkSide

One other side note.  4-5 years from now when you upgrade again, the 350 will likely be viewed as underpowered as 410 is the minimum starting last year.   Right now not a ton of used stuff out there.   So 350 is still common,  4-5 years from now it will be different.   

 

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ibelonginprison

I will never buy another wakeboat without 400hp+, minimum.

Take that for what it's worth.

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