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gobble

Has anyone ever tried to integrate their reversible pumps into Maliview?

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gobble

I'm told it can be done using relays. Has anyone tried it?

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shawndoggy

I cannot fathom what the upside would possibly be.  Too much trouble, wiring too complicated, won't ever be as straightforward as a rocker switch.

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gobble

There's already a picture of the bow ballast on the screen and making it work would mean functions like fill all and drain all work like the other tanks. The wiring is all there and it can't possibly be that hard, just need to use a relay to prevent the load from going through the switch. Spencer says it's been done. Don't you think integrating it with everything else beats cutting a hole somewhere and adding a rocker switch that looks added on?

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shawndoggy

you'd need two relays because you need to be able to reverse polarity.  I think this would work:

 

reverse_polarity_act_pos.gif

(obviously substitute your reversible pump for the door lock actuator)

 

 

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gobble
1 minute ago, shawndoggy said:

you'd need two relays because you need to be able to reverse polarity.  I think this would work:

 

reverse_polarity_act_pos.gif

(obviously substitute your reversible pump for the door lock actuator)

 

 

Thanks, yes wakemakers has a similar diagram on their website. I've already ordered two of the waterproof relays they recommend. I'm just trying to see who's done this already.

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gobble

I ordered those too :)

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MLA

If you have two switched outputs, then it will work. 

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mikeo

I've done it; don't bother with two relays as it will just give you a headache. All you need is a $20 "winch relay" from amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KGICYAA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You tie the grounds together (from each one of the factory leads, the "chassis" ground from the distribution block, the red lead from the pump goes on one output, the black lead from the pump goes on the other output. Use the factory wiring harness to get the "trigger" signal for drain & empty to the relay and run a (fused) lead from the +12V distribution block to run the whole thing. I use this config to fill/drain by bow triangle since I don't have a bow tank. The only other "trick" you need to know is that you need a rheostat to run across the two leads for the ballast tank sensor so the switches show up on the dash. I set the rheostat so the dash system always reads 50% so I don't have any problems running either a fill or drain command.

I've got my sub box/kickpanel out so I can try to take some pictures in a few minutes.

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gobble
36 minutes ago, mikeo said:

I've done it; don't bother with two relays as it will just give you a headache. All you need is a $20 "winch relay" from amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KGICYAA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You tie the grounds together (from each one of the factory leads, the "chassis" ground from the distribution block, the red lead from the pump goes on one output, the black lead from the pump goes on the other output. Use the factory wiring harness to get the "trigger" signal for drain & empty to the relay and run a (fused) lead from the +12V distribution block to run the whole thing. I use this config to fill/drain by bow triangle since I don't have a bow tank. The only other "trick" you need to know is that you need a rheostat to run across the two leads for the ballast tank sensor so the switches show up on the dash. I set the rheostat so the dash system always reads 50% so I don't have any problems running either a fill or drain command.

I've got my sub box/kickpanel out so I can try to take some pictures in a few minutes.

Thanks, that would be awesome if you could take some pictures. My package from Wakemakers arrives Tuesday and I've ordered the two relays from Amazon. I can switch to the winch relay if that's better.

Did you have trouble finding the factory harnesses?

Interesting with the rheostat. I'll have to research that a bit. I did a Maliview reset to factory settings last week and the bow tank shows up on the MLS screen now, even though my boat doesn't have the factory bow tank. So I think the switch is there but happy to learn what I don't know.

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mikeo
1 hour ago, gobble said:

Thanks, that would be awesome if you could take some pictures. My package from Wakemakers arrives Tuesday and I've ordered the two relays from Amazon. I can switch to the winch relay if that's better.

Did you have trouble finding the factory harnesses?

Interesting with the rheostat. I'll have to research that a bit. I did a Maliview reset to factory settings last week and the bow tank shows up on the MLS screen now, even though my boat doesn't have the factory bow tank. So I think the switch is there but happy to learn what I don't know.

picture with notes:
579ec79d5cb1f_ballastrelaywnotes.thumb.j

I'm not 100% sure if my notes on the bow fill and drain triggers are correct, but all you have to do is move the wires from one side to the other (either move the spade connector or move the leads going to the pump)

I have a picture of the rheostat as well, I'll post that as an additional comment in this thread so I can upload it and get around the total image size restriction.

Edited by mikeo
edited for clarity

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mikeo

This is the rheostat that I connected to the factory wiring harness "MLS BOW SENDER UNIT" connector. I power-cycled the boat using the main battery switch and has the rheostat all the way to one extreme; once it rebooted I didn't have a front tank on my screen. I moved the rheostat to the other extreme and power-cycled the boat at the battery switch, once everything came up online I had a bow tank reading 100% full. I (slowly) adjusted the rheostat until the bow tank read 50% and then I "hung" the rheostat on a bolt tail under the dash and I haven't moved it this season.

579ec8fb47278_rheostatcropped.thumb.jpg.

You'll notice that the rheostat is a 3 wire (most are) but the wiring harness is two connectors. The MLS sensor sends a different amount of resistance based on what the sensor reads. I tied the two "positive" signal leads together and connected them to the "positive" (color) side of the wiring harness connector, and I connected the black (ground) from the rheostat to the black (ground) side of the wiring harness. So far I haven't had any issues. The only thing that's different is that I have to manually fill/drain the bow ballast, but that's what I was after anyway.

I have an idea of how to hook up a level sensor to read my bow triangle but that's going to take some off season work.

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gobble

Thanks for posting all this. I'll take some pictures when I do my install as well. When you say fill/drain manually, do you mean the "fill all" and "drain all" options don't power the bow ballast? Or just that you have to attach a hose to the triangle bag when you use it?

Do you think this will work for the rheostat/potentiometer? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009QFU9H4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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gobble
10 hours ago, mikeo said:

picture with notes:
579ec79d5cb1f_ballastrelaywnotes.thumb.j

I'm not 100% sure if my notes on the bow fill and drain triggers are correct, but all you have to do is move the wires from one side to the other (either move the spade connector or move the leads going to the pump)

I have a picture of the rheostat as well, I'll post that as an additional comment in this thread so I can upload it and get around the total image size restriction.

Also, see a black wire coming up on the right side near the blue bow drain wire. Is that wire simply taped to the blue wire and not used? I'd guess same for the fill side?

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mikeo
2 hours ago, gobble said:

Also, see a black wire coming up on the right side near the blue bow drain wire. Is that wire simply taped to the blue wire and not used? I'd guess same for the fill side?

You are correct, there is a black wire there. I intended to ground it since it's the second half of the wire from the in-boat harness, but everything worked without connecting it to a common ground. I'm sure that best practices are to tie the grounds together, but everything works.

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mikeo
2 hours ago, gobble said:

Thanks for posting all this. I'll take some pictures when I do my install as well. When you say fill/drain manually, do you mean the "fill all" and "drain all" options don't power the bow ballast? Or just that you have to attach a hose to the triangle bag when you use it?

Do you think this will work for the rheostat/potentiometer? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009QFU9H4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

All of the fill and drain options work just fine unless the preset is for 50% in my configuration. If the preset is for 50% then I have to manually fill/drain the bow triangle. The individual options for the bow tank, fill all, drain all, and go home all work just fine. I'm currently running ventless on my bow bag, but was running vented for the first 1/2 of the season; Running with a vent line and "coupling" the reversible pump to the vent line when not is use allows the water to pump overboard if I accidentally start filling. Since I'm using 1-1/8" hoses with 1" barb pumps I've got adapters in place and I want to make sure I don't build too much pressure and blow things apart, therefore running a vented config is the best option for me.

On the rheostat, I assume the one on amazon will work. I really need to take my multimeter and get a resistance reading and then just put a fixed resistor in place.

BTW: PM me if you need/want connectors. I ordered the minimum from Mauser (50 each) and have a bunch of spares.

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gobble

What kind of connectors do I need?

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gobble
Just now, mikeo said:

I'll have to look in the boat to see if you need male or female connectors, but here they are:
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/38042/Delphi-12010973-Male-2-Contact-Shroud-Half/

It looks like I got them from Waytek Wire and not Mouser Electronics...

These connect to wires that are already there for the fill and drain switching? I'd buy some from you if I need them.

Where did you find the wires? Malibu told me they're prewired and tucked away. I didn't see anything obvious behind the sub panel. Do you know if they're where the pumps would go vs. tucked somewhere under the dash? It would be nice to find a wiring diagram somewhere so I know what colors I'm looking for. The Liljohn bow ballast upgrade thread only shows the sensor wires.

 

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mikeo
Just now, gobble said:

These connect to wires that are already there for the fill and drain switching? I'd buy some from you if I need them.

Where did you find the wires? Malibu told me they're prewired and tucked away. I didn't see anything obvious behind the sub panel. Do you know if they're where the pumps would go vs. tucked somewhere under the dash? It would be nice to find a wiring diagram somewhere so I know what colors I'm looking for. The Liljohn bow ballast upgrade thread only shows the sensor wires.

 

Malibu uses pre-made wiring harnesses now so all the connectors are there. The major difference that you're facing is that the aerator pumps are low current draw, but the reversible pump is high current draw. You're going to end up using the wires that would connect to a pump as the relay trigger leads. You're looking for 3 connectors and they all should be labeled: MLS BOW FILL PUMP, MLS BOW DRAIN PUMP, and MLS BOW SENDER UNIT. I'll check what colors are on each pigtail when I climb in the boat later this afternoon; all the connectors are labeled. The cable ends you're looking for will be where the pumps would normally be or close to that.

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mikeo

Here's a quick update to my post above: the labels don't say "PUMP" just MLS BOW FILL and MLS BOW DRAIN. The wire colors are:

MLS BOW FILL: brown/pink & black

MLS BOW DRAIN: brown/yellow & black

MLS BOW SENDING UNIT: green/yellow & black

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gobble

I'm having a little trouble finding all the wires. I found this under the dash, looks like the drain and sensor wires and they're cut off. Where the heck do I find the fill wires? I opened up that circular hatch and looked in the center area but couldn't find anything. I hope they didn't snip them too.

What do you think the red and black wires are for with the connector at the end?

IMG_0033.jpgIMG_0034.jpg

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mikeo
57 minutes ago, gobble said:

I'm having a little trouble finding all the wires. I found this under the dash, looks like the drain and sensor wires and they're cut off. Where the heck do I find the fill wires? I opened up that circular hatch and looked in the center area but couldn't find anything. I hope they didn't snip them too.

What do you think the red and black wires are for with the connector at the end?

Well that seems to be a bit BS. I would look for the "head" end of the cables in the big Viper II to harness connector above that and then pull the cables back up the harness and solder extensions on (once I verified that those are the correct leads). I'll bet that the cables for the other pump are cut too. I've been assuming that you have a '15 boat, not a '16. What year and model is your boat? If it's a '16 then those leads could be for the drain plug sensor... That looks like orange/blue & black in the picture; I'll go take a look and see if I see anything that looks like that in my boat.

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mikeo

I just looked and the orange/blue & black connector is for the heater. The heater can be installed as an aftermarket/dealer-prep item so that may be why the wires aren't cut.

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gobble

Thanks, heater makes sense. I'll have to get my meter out and verify the wires are what I think they are and dig for the fill wires.

My boat is a 2013 VLX.

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