Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Sign in to follow this  
JustinH

2016 LSV - Another Prop Thread?

Recommended Posts

JustinH

Hi, I have recently purchased a new 2016 LSV (Monsoon 410 6.2) with the Acme 2249 High Altitude Prop (I have searched on this topic, and read inputs), front internal ballast and 2 750# bags in rear PnP. 

Normal use:  We live near Folsom Lake (sea level) and will ride either there or in the delta.  Once per year we will go to Almanor or Tahoe.  We surf 50% and wakeboard the other 50% of the time, ranging from beginner to advanced and have found the factory presets to be so good we rarely deviate.  We don't spend a ton of time cruising to where we would ultimately ride when on Folsom, but can spend 15 minutes cruising to find water on the delta (or good places to anchor and drink beer and fish :) ).

After about 40 hours and a bit of bad luck, I am looking for additional prop inputs.  This past week in Almanor I managed to ding the 2249, and it is being repaired.  I love the torque on the 2249, but the RPM's seem a bit outrageous.  My dealer (Larson) gave me a 1235 and she is a dog.  I have read others suggest the 2277.

I am hoping that any 2016 LSV owners with similar configs and usage models as ours, who have actually switched away from the 2249, might be able to comment on their experiences - pro's, con's, etc.  My current thinking is to give Larson the 1235 back, ask for a 2277, have the 2249 repaired and keep one as backup and one on the boat.  Is this solid thinking, is there another prop I should consider, or should I just keep the 2249?

I appreciate any inputs you guys have.  Thank you.

-Justin

Share this post


Link to post
mikeo

The 1235 is/was the standard for the '15 and prior as the "high altitude/high torque" option from Malibu, but depending on what you're doing it left a lot to be desired. I know the '16 has a new engine and transmission, but what part of the 1235 is a dog? hole shot? top end?

I suggest you open this web page:
http://acmemarine.com/prop-list_ski-boat.php

and then select all the data in the "ACME 1 1/8" Bore LH Rotation" section; paste that in to MS Excel or another spreadsheet and take a look at the options available knowing what diameter, pitch, and cup do to performance. Depending on what you do/don't like about each prop you should be able to narrow down to a short list of what might work well.

Let me see if I can attach a spreadsheet with all the relevant options set for you.

acme_props_tmc.xlsx

Edited by mikeo
added attachement

Share this post


Link to post
Ronnie

1235 is a14.50" Diameter, 14.2500 Pitch, .105 cup

2277 is a 15.00" Diameter, 15.7500 Pitch, .150 cup

2249 is a 15.00" Diameter, 14.2500 Pitch, .105 cup

You need the 15" prop on the '16 models. The 2277 will cut your RPM's down from the 2249.

 

Share this post


Link to post
mikeo

The spreadsheet I linked above has auto-filters turned on, you can easily sort by what you like about your prop. If you like the 2249 for the "push" then select all 15" props, if you like the hole shot then select all .105 props next, now you're down to 8 props and the pitch is the only difference. If you want to go faster (top end) then get something with more pitch, but it might take longer (less acceleration) to get there. If you want more acceleration, get more cup too...

Share this post


Link to post
mikeo

@Ronnie feel free to put the spreadsheet in the "resources" section if you think it would be valuable for others

Share this post


Link to post
JustinH
3 hours ago, mikeo said:

The spreadsheet I linked above has auto-filters turned on, you can easily sort by what you like about your prop. If you like the 2249 for the "push" then select all 15" props, if you like the hole shot then select all .105 props next, now you're down to 8 props and the pitch is the only difference. If you want to go faster (top end) then get something with more pitch, but it might take longer (less acceleration) to get there. If you want more acceleration, get more cup too...

Thanks.  Wow.  In a couple sentences you explained all the differences in props.  In 30 years of boating I never dinged a prop nor did I ever dislike a prop that came stock on a boat, so I never bothered to learn this.  Thanks again.

For some reason I cant access your link, but I did recreate it.  Lots of choices.  Was hoping it would be easier. ;-) .

I am trying to relate these terms to torque and HP in cars.  To me top end = HP (more pitch), but both push and hole shot could mean torque.....what am I missing here?  Trying to articulate in terms that make sense to me - I don't care as much about "jerking" the rider out of the water (holeshot?), I do think the rpm's of the 2249 are ridiculous . 

Based on what you are saying the 2277 (relative to the 2249) should give me more top end and more acceleration. Has anyone actually put the 2277 on their '16 LSV and do they like it?  Are there downsides?

I tried to paste my re-created table below but it didn't work.  Probably my newbie status.  I'll try to give back to the community :) .

-Justin

Ancient Centurion -> 1998 Sport Nautique -> 2008 VLX -> 2018 LSV

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
mikeo

@JustinH I'm a noob when it comes to props, there are a lot of people with more information than me but I've been researching this recently. If you want your ear talked off (in a good way) call Acme and talk to Greg, if you really want to know everything about props, talk to Jim...

Here's what I can paraphrase:

diameter: you're pushing more water. It takes more effort, but you should be more efficient and go faster since you're pushing more water
pitch: the distance the prop can go in 1 revolution if it didn't "slip". This is like going to a higher gear in a car or on a bike, you can go faster but it takes more pressure (torque) to turn the prop
cup: the "grip" of the prop in the water; more cup = stronger hole shot (if I remember correctly) there is also a formula for adding cup if you can't add diameter but I don't recall the formula
clearance: never go closer than .75" from the gelcoat/hull and most say never closer than 1" or you risk blistering the hull

You can calculate the theoretical top speed of a prop assuming no slip/cavitation with something like this:

(RPM*60) = RPH
RPH/gear ratio = "real" RPH
"real" RPH * pitch = in per hr (IPH)
IPH/(5280*12)

something like this in google calc:
((RPM*60*pitch)/gear ratio)/(5280*12)=
((1000*60*10.5)/1.5)/(5280*12)=6.6 (for a boat at 1000 RPM with a 10.5" pitch prop and 1:1.5 trans & no slip)
accuracy increases as efficiency increases (with speed)

take the output and figure out what the "slip" is (10%?) and multiply by the inverse (.9 for 10% slip) and you should be close to the speed

Based on what you list above I would guess that the 2315 would be a sweet spot prop for you between the altitude changes and the amount of ballast, but I have no experience with the new trans and the new & high output engine. What results are you looking for? higher top speed or some other parameter?

Edited by mikeo

Share this post


Link to post
mikeo
25 minutes ago, JustinH said:

Based on what you are saying the 2277 (relative to the 2249) should give me more top end and more acceleration. Has anyone actually put the 2277 on their '16 LSV and do they like it?  Are there downsides?

Based on what I know (and someone may correct me) the difference between these two props is a bit of "apples vs. oranges" because more than one parameter is different:

2249 15 x 14.24 .105
2277 15 x 15.75 .150

Both are 15" diameter, so that's not relevant.
14.25 vs. 15.75 pitch, so the 2277 should have a higher top end speed since it goes further in the water for each revolution, but the 2277 will require more torque to spin it (but you have that in the 410 engine vs. the base 350)
.105 cup vs .150 cup, so the 2277 should have more "traction" at low RPM since it is "gripping" the water better with more cup

I refer to this post for a "minivan vs. mustang" comparison on a regular basis:

The posts linked here can explain a lot about props too:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Ronnie

You might tag @IXFE. He has the 16 23LSV and he's running the 2277.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
JustinH
8 hours ago, mikeo said:

@JustinH ...... What results are you looking for? higher top speed or some other parameter?

Primarily I would like to run at some slightly lower RPM's.  I am concerned about compromising surfing - if you add up the base weight of the boat, 4 ballast tanks, 2 huge PnP sacs, PWII, and ballast buddies, we are talking some serious weight.  I want to ensure I can still get the boat up to 11mph.

Share this post


Link to post
NWBU
49 minutes ago, JustinH said:

Primarily I would like to run at some slightly lower RPM's.  I am concerned about compromising surfing - if you add up the base weight of the boat, 4 ballast tanks, 2 huge PnP sacs, PWII, and ballast buddies, we are talking some serious weight.  I want to ensure I can still get the boat up to 11mph.

Go with the 2277 and you'll be happy. I've driven @IXFE's boat this summer and it launches great with that prop and engine combo for surfing, and has good top end speed. Was just on it Friday and don't recall the RPMs but they're very reasonable with the boat sacked out. I think he's offline at Shasta this week but he'll have the exact RPM ranges. 

Here's another thread with the same boat, engine and prop configuration during a local "R&D" session we did last fall to test out the same questions you're asking.

 

Share this post


Link to post
JustinH
6 minutes ago, NWBU said:

Go with the 2277 and you'll be happy. I've driven @IXFE's boat this summer and it launches great with that prop and engine combo for surfing, and has good top end speed. Was just on it Friday and don't recall the RPMs but they're very reasonable with the boat sacked out. I think he's offline at Shasta this week but he'll have the exact RPM ranges. 

Here's another thread with the same boat, engine and prop configuration during a local "R&D" session we did last fall to test out the same questions you're asking.

Thanks.  Not sure how I missed that thread - I promise I searched!  The interior of that boat looks exactly like mine - good taste I guess ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
bbattiste247

I am at 1000 feet above the sea. I started with the 2249 and I hated it. Tried the 2401 15 x 17.75 and it significanlty cut down the rpm's but was a little slower on pullng someone out of the water and it struggles a bit with the 2 750's full. The 2277 is your best bet. It is similar to the 2249 on the torque, but it cuts down the rpm's and raises your top speed to about 39 mph. I don't think there are any other options other than the 2277.  It seems to be the best overall prop for your boat.

Share this post


Link to post
JustinH

Thanks to everyone for providing input.  I ordered the 2277 yesterday.  I hope to have it on the boat this weekend and I will report back.

Share this post


Link to post
McMiller

I have been running the 2277 on my 23LSV with the 450 - mix of surfing, wakeboarding, hydrofoil and cruising,  Im at 72hrs and averaging 5.5 Gallons per hour,  way better than I expected.  I have found the wedge position to be the biggest driver of RPM's when surfing, I try to keep them around 3500.   I recommend the 2277 for everything, seems to be the only prop I need.

Share this post


Link to post
JustinH

Just a quick thank  you to everyone who responded to the thread above.  We were out on the boat both days this weekend with the new 2277 prop and love it.  This is the right prop for the '16 LSV for sure.  A bit more top end, a bit quieter at cruising speed, plenty of torque with all sac's filled and 6 guys on the boat surfing today!  Color me happy!!!!

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...