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Chrisjjbrown

Listed vs Surfgate waves

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Chrisjjbrown

I know this topic has been talked about before, but I recently experienced a listed wave from a centurion.  I really did not feel that the wave being listed had more push or power or lip than a wave created by a boat with a surf device.    I was wondering if because the boats now have become so massive and the surf devices and ballast in these boats now has advanced to a point that not only will these boats create more enjoyable experience from a driving perspective (i.e. not having to list the boat) but if these new boats are indeed putting out better waves than if they were listing them. 

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minnmarker

At this Spring's boat show every wake boat manufacturer had some type of surf device (either Malibu surf gates or some version of WaveControl trim tabs) on every boat on display.  That kind of answers the question.

No more listing for me.

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ConnollyCrew

Surfgate kills it! Period.

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Stevo

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IXFE
2 hours ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

I know this topic has been talked about before, but I recently experienced a listed wave from a centurion.  I really did not feel that the wave being listed had more push or power or lip than a wave created by a boat with a surf device.    I was wondering if because the boats now have become so massive and the surf devices and ballast in these boats now has advanced to a point that not only will these boats create more enjoyable experience from a driving perspective (i.e. not having to list the boat) but if these new boats are indeed putting out better waves than if they were listing them. 

To be honest, I haven't tried a listed wave since my 2012 VLX.  I'm a Surfgate guy through and through.  

That said, if the listed guys were here (they seemed to have abandoned this place like so many others), they would tell you that the listed wave requires 1/2 the weight.  

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Chrisjjbrown

But with half the weight I am not seeing any better waves produced  

Maybe the listed guys just started running surf devices and r too ashamed to admit it. 

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

To be honest, I haven't tried a listed wave since my 2012 VLX.  I'm a Surfgate guy through and through.  

That said, if the listed guys were here (they seemed to have abandoned this place like so many others), they would tell you that the listed wave requires 1/2 the weight.  

 

Edited by Chrisjjbrown

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DAI

This will get interesting . . . . The entertainment factor is about to go up.

I have really nothing of value to add - only rode a listed wave once and have a surf gate boat; just looking to get my post count to 1,000 prior to my 5 -year anniversary on the site :biggrin:

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wakemitch

Listed waves were better in my opinion until the boat companies started making hulls designed to work with surf gate devices. I prefer a surf gate wake now

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saxton15
11 hours ago, IXFE said:

To be honest, I haven't tried a listed wave since my 2012 VLX.  I'm a Surfgate guy through and through.  

That said, if the listed guys were here (they seemed to have abandoned this place like so many others), they would tell you that the listed wave requires 1/2 the weight.  

Paging @Lance B. Johnson 

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TimbrSS

Here's my mission gear surfgate style flap vs listed video on my 247. I like listed better than a fixed add on device, for ease of turning, and half the weight. I haven't ridden a actual surfgate boat though, so the pros of automated system may be nice.

I'll likely add GSA to my boat this year, waiting to surf one in person first.

 

 

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Chrisjjbrown

@wakemitch has spoken surf gate boats rule now. 

Edited by Chrisjjbrown

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Kojak

Only listed my boat a few times and never really got the wave right.  The family hated the boat being listed.  Went to a DIY gate and then the Wicked Wakesurf.  Both were tall but short in length.

I now have the WaveControl system and love it.  It throws a great wave with tremendous push.  The wife really likes driving the boat with it too compared to listed or with a gate.

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Ronnie

In my experience;

We rode listed boats for many years. I liked the wave and it wasn't any real trouble to handle the boat like that. I built some WickedWake Surf type gates. They weren't too bad to put on and take off. The wave was good but I liked the listed wave better. Now with the new LSV and other gated boats I have been in, I've told several riders coming from listed wave that they have a lot more wave behind them to play on. They just aren't used to such a long pocket. My Son in Law is a big guy. He runs around 280. With a listed wave, he always had trouble sinking the only board I had that was big enough to hold him. It is an original Landlock. With the new LSV, he can ride my Phase5 Oogle which is a smaller board.

My '16 23LSV setup is all factory tanks full, Wagemakers PnP 700's in the lockers, Sumo 650 in front of the rear seat on the floor and a 650 Sumo triangle in the bow. Wedge about 1/2 way between Stow and Lift. If we have more than 3-4 people in the boat plus the surfer, I don't run the Sumo sack on the floor. BTW, the new 4200 Sumo pump is FAST.

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Chrisjjbrown
8 hours ago, Ronnie said:

In my experience;

We rode listed boats for many years. I liked the wave and it wasn't any real trouble to handle the boat like that. I built some WickedWake Surf type gates. They weren't too bad to put on and take off. The wave was good but I liked the listed wave better. Now with the new LSV and other gated boats I have been in, I've told several riders coming from listed wave that they have a lot more wave behind them to play on. They just aren't used to such a long pocket. My Son in Law is a big guy. He runs around 280. With a listed wave, he always had trouble sinking the only board I had that was big enough to hold him. It is an original Landlock. With the new LSV, he can ride my Phase5 Oogle which is a smaller board.

My '16 23LSV setup is all factory tanks full, Wagemakers PnP 700's in the lockers, Sumo 650 in front of the rear seat on the floor and a 650 Sumo triangle in the bow. Wedge about 1/2 way between Stow and Lift. If we have more than 3-4 people in the boat plus the surfer, I don't run the Sumo sack on the floor. BTW, the new 4200 Sumo pump is FAST.

Let's see a picture of this wave Ronnie. 

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Ronnie

OK, when this rain goes away I'll get you one.

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IXFE
12 hours ago, Ronnie said:

In my experience;

We rode listed boats for many years. I liked the wave and it wasn't any real trouble to handle the boat like that. I built some WickedWake Surf type gates. They weren't too bad to put on and take off. The wave was good but I liked the listed wave better. Now with the new LSV and other gated boats I have been in, I've told several riders coming from listed wave that they have a lot more wave behind them to play on. They just aren't used to such a long pocket. My Son in Law is a big guy. He runs around 280. With a listed wave, he always had trouble sinking the only board I had that was big enough to hold him. It is an original Landlock. With the new LSV, he can ride my Phase5 Oogle which is a smaller board.

My '16 23LSV setup is all factory tanks full, Wagemakers PnP 700's in the lockers, Sumo 650 in front of the rear seat on the floor and a 650 Sumo triangle in the bow. Wedge about 1/2 way between Stow and Lift. If we have more than 3-4 people in the boat plus the surfer, I don't run the Sumo sack on the floor. BTW, the new 4200 Sumo pump is FAST.

Ronnie, your setup is identical to mine, only I'm not using the extra 650 on the floor. I have an extra Sumo 750 I could use either there or in the walkway, but I'm too lazy to throw pumps overboard anymore. My bow bag is plumbed to a reversible with the switch hiding in the walkway  

My original plan was to get the high capacity WM bags for the lockers (similar to last years), but supposedly they aren't making them yet, so my dealer put the 700's in with the idea that we'd swap them out later. Now that I have them in I'm not sure I care enough to go with the bigger bags, and I don't really see how they'd fit as the 700's seem pretty tight.  That said, I bet if you got the bigger WM bags you could eliminate that extra 650 on the floor. 

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Ronnie

Yeah, I agree. I'm "Supposed" to get the first set of WM Max Capacity bags available. But like you, I'm still waiting. We only use the Sumo in the floor (it's 40" long and fits between the side seats) if we have a small crew which happens since we go out during the week a lot. If we have a bigger crew, the floor bag stays on the dock. The bow sack is a requirement though. I tried it without the bow sack and the wave is short and the bow is too high.

I'm not a pump over the side fan either but I'm not going to the trouble to go reversible if I start flipping boats like I think I am again. The 4200 Sumo pump is a monster. It fills the extra bags very quickly.

 

Sumo_Pump.JPG

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Chrisjjbrown
1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Ronnie, your setup is identical to mine, only I'm not using the extra 650 on the floor. I have an extra Sumo 750 I could use either there or in the walkway, but I'm too lazy to throw pumps overboard anymore. My bow bag is plumbed to a reversible with the switch hiding in the walkway  

My original plan was to get the high capacity WM bags for the lockers (similar to last years), but supposedly they aren't making them yet, so my dealer put the 700's in with the idea that we'd swap them out later. Now that I have them in I'm not sure I care enough to go with the bigger bags, and I don't really see how they'd fit as the 700's seem pretty tight.  That said, I bet if you got the bigger WM bags you could eliminate that extra 650 on the floor. 

I use the bag on the floor like Ronnie when I have a small crew as well.  No pump over the side my bow sack is on a reversible that Y's to fill both cabin bag and bow sack.  I have 2 shut of valves in the lines to the bags so I can do either or  both.   

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Stevo

I can't wait to try out that sumo 4200 , it's got a nice little mesh bag to stuff it in after use.

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Ronnie

If I haven't thrown my mesh bag away, it's yours... 10lbs of pump in a 5lb bag.

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IXFE
5 hours ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

I use the bag on the floor like Ronnie when I have a small crew as well.  No pump over the side my bow sack is on a reversible that Y's to fill both cabin bag and bow sack.  I have 2 shut of valves in the lines to the bags so I can do either or  both.   

Hmm... Maybe I shoulda plumbed it this way  

When you fill up both it takes twice as long, right?

6 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Yeah, I agree. I'm "Supposed" to get the first set of WM Max Capacity bags available. But like you, I'm still waiting. We only use the Sumo in the floor (it's 40" long and fits between the side seats) if we have a small crew which happens since we go out during the week a lot. If we have a bigger crew, the floor bag stays on the dock. The bow sack is a requirement though. I tried it without the bow sack and the wave is short and the bow is too high.

I'm not a pump over the side fan either but I'm not going to the trouble to go reversible if I start flipping boats like I think I am again. The 4200 Sumo pump is a monster. It fills the extra bags very quickly.

 

Sumo_Pump.JPG

Totally agree on the bow sack. Unless I have 4 adults sitting up there I'm running the triangle. Been that way since my first SG boat in 2013 

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Chrisjjbrown
1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Hmm... Maybe I shoulda plumbed it this way  

When you fill up both it takes twice as long, right?

Totally agree on the bow sack. Unless I have 4 adults sitting up there I'm running the triangle. Been that way since my first SG boat in 2013 

No it doesn't take twice as long. Alittle longer but not twice the amount of time surprisingly.  If I want it to go real quick  I"throw my sumo pump on it as well.   Draining is actually the part that takes more time. 

 

Also you still could mod your bow pump line to do this just cut the line add the y and a couple shut off valves  50 bucks and 30 mins of work.  Don't use the cheap plastic ball valves though as they break use some good metal ones   

 

 

Edited by Chrisjjbrown

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wheelman
12 minutes ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

No it doesn't take twice as long. Alittle longer but not twice the amount of time surprisingly.  If I want it to go real quick  I"throw my sumo pump on it as well.   Draining is actually the part that takes more time. 

 

Also you still could mod your bow pump line to do this just cut the line add the y and a couple shut off valves  50 bucks and 30 mins of work.  Don't use the cheap plastic ball valves though as they break use some good metal ones   

 

 

I did the same set up but one goes to my bow bag the other goes to my 370 tube sac in the coffin for regular side to help offset prop rotation. Works great 

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