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Davidda

14 23LSV vs 16 23LSV

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Davidda

Is there really a big difference in these year models? I appreciate more torque in the base engine, wedge II etc., but is the overall performance of the boat, surf wake etc. worth spending the additional cash? I am test driving the 16 in a couple weeks and I think I want to pull the trigger, just wanted to see what some thoughts are on the two.

Thanks.

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augie09

I have a '14 and have it up for sale so I can upgrade to a '16. If it doesn't sell, I won't really care because it's an awesome boat. wedge 2 is something I want. engine upgrade is something I want. wrist band is something I want. Picking my own color scheme is something I want. But I don't need any of them. This past summer we've never not had an awesome surf wave, never not been able to communicte to boat to tweak the settings, never been unable to get up to speed with tons of weight, the '16 is just making all those things incrementally better, imo. the price difference is 20-30k from what we bought our '14 for 10 months ago new and what the same dealer would do a '16 for. bonkers. Are there diamonds in the dash?

not sure if that helps.

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Davidda

I know exactly what you mean. It's getting over the 20-30k for that incremental difference that I need to rationalize.

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DarkSide

Yes, there is a difference, the power wedge 2 is awesome! I had a 14 24 MXZ and went to 15 24 MXZ, power wedge 2 is a huge improvement over the first gen. Also the dash is a home run! Light years ahead of the 14. From what I have heard the Ford engine is much louder. The 3.2 tower is nice, but G4 is fantastic. Surf band, ok, I kinda lost my excitement for that one. Also new cooler vinyl on 16. So there is some differences, wake wise PW2 is significant. Everything else is creature comforts

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Fman

Is there really a big difference in these year models? I appreciate more torque in the base engine, wedge II etc., but is the overall performance of the boat, surf wake etc. worth spending the additional cash? I am test driving the 16 in a couple weeks and I think I want to pull the trigger, just wanted to see what some thoughts are on the two.

Thanks.

The 2014 had a one year dash production, it did not recieve much good feedback from most. It's not a deal breaker but not even close to the 2015/16 dash. And the pw2 is much better as well, not only engineered better (single hydraulic actuator) but with the new lift feature which is great for wakeboarding to plane out the boat easier.

Honesty, I would not buy a 2014, you can get a 2015 for relatively a little more and have a much better dash and wedge system. From 2015 to 16 there are some minor changes (adjustable height drivers seat, windshield design change, drivers seat change, vinyl changes, hydraulic surf tabs). You do get a 5 year warranty and raptor 410 base engine with a 2016 which is a huge plus and only a 3 year warranty with a 2015. That being said I would still definitely check out and search for a good deal on a 2015 as well.

Edit: 2015/16 also have the latch system rather than knobs on the g3.2 tower. If you are raising and lowering tower often it's much easier with the latches.

Just my .02...

Edited by Fman

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cwkoch

I have a 2014 LSV. Test drove the 2016 LSV the other day....

Dash- Awesome.

Wedge2- an improvement I guess..... nothing I'm terribly excited about.

Height adjustable driver seat- Very nice.

Ford motor???? - Absolutely terrible!!!!!

My 14 has the LS3 motor. Very strong, VERY QUIET!!! I get so many comments from riders in my boat about how great it is that it's so quiet you can actually talk to each other. The ford motor is no stronger than my LS3, but is HORRIBLY LOUD!!!!! When I got back to the dock I asked the dealer if the boat came with a supply of ear plugs, it's that bad. It's not just exhaust noise, it's also engine noise coming straight out of the engine compartment.

I'm very disappointed that Malibu has gone this route for engines. This motor is probably a deal breaker for me, and I may start looking at the G23 and X23 for my next boat....

The other thing that bothers the hell out of me- The 410 and the 450 Raptor motors are mechanically identical (so I've heard), the only difference between them is the tune. I've heard the upcharge is roughly $6,000 to go from the 410 to the 450???? Come on!!!!! I can get a tune for my Duramax for $800 that boosts me over 100hp!!!! Indmar and Malibu should be ashamed of themselves for what they are charging for this difference in tuning!!!!

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Fman

How could an engine be that much more loud? Different exhaust and muffler system? Did you demo a 450 or 410? The pw2 is really noticeably different when planing out a heavy boat for wakeboarding, it does not do much for surfing. Although the foil is approx 20% larger as well.

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cwkoch

I don't know, but the sounds levels are a night and day difference between my LS3 450, and the Raptor 450. (It was the 450 that I demo'd)

I'll put it to you this way- that motor cost them the sale of a 2016 LSV..... I was ready to trade or sell my 2014, and order a 2016, but it's not happening now.

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Fman

Wow, that is crazy... seems like most have been overall happy with the new ford engines. I wonder if a fresh air exhaust would help reduce noise at all? Did the boat demod have a turn down exhaust tip or rubber flaps? It is a single exhaust port now, correct?

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05hammerhead

The other thing that bothers the hell out of me- The 410 and the 450 Raptor motors are mechanically identical (so I've heard), the only difference between them is the tune. I've heard the upcharge is roughly $6,000 to go from the 410 to the 450???? Come on!!!!! I can get a tune for my Duramax for $800 that boosts me over 100hp!!!! Indmar and Malibu should be ashamed of themselves for what they are charging for this difference in tuning!!!!

This doesnt sound right. EDIT - I stand corrected the 400 and the 440 both have same displacement, bore, stroke etc. Maybe it is the same??

Wow, that is crazy... seems like most have been overall happy with the new ford engines. I wonder if a fresh air exhaust would help reduce noise at all? Did the boat demod have a turn down exhaust tip or rubber flaps? It is a single exhaust port now, correct?

Ive heard its more through the firewall than through the exhaust. I would imagine some dynamat could help this easy enough. I rode behind a 2016 and didnt think it was that loud. It was the 450.

$20k is a lot of dough for getting on plane a little easier and a nicer dash. And youll never have a problem getting on plane unless you are sacking the s*** outta these boats(2-3k over stock weight)...not many dudes need that much weight to wakeboard and the PW2 wont help you for surfing. Id save the dough, buy a bigger prop if youre worried.

Edited by 05hammerhead

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cwkoch

I'm sure fresh air exhaust would help somewhat, but, like I said, it wasn't only exhaust noise, it was also engine noise. I'd say it would take fresh air exhaust, plus a crap-ton of Dynamat around the engine compartment to get to comparable sound levels with an LS3.

I'm not sure if the boat had STE, or just a rubber flapper. The dealer said the ford motors are all single outlet on the exhaust.

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cwkoch

Yeah, it doesn't sound right to me either that they would charge that much for a tune..... But, it's been discussed on here as well as wakeworld that the 410 and 450 Raptors are identical motors, and the only difference was the tune.....

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thtrog

MSRP is $7500 upcharge on the 450, $6000 sounds like an accurate number and honestly can't tell you if it's worth it. It was mentioned in another thread and you can Google pics, the exhaust manifolds end up right behind the rear seat instead off the side like the GM's.

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Davidda

A lot of good points/thoughts to consider. Appreciate it.

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thtrog

I would not hesitate to buy a leftover '15, there are some good buys out there if you find one you like. I know my dealer has 3 LSV's and 2 VLX's on the lot priced to sell.

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CJAY

The dash is the biggest thing by far, 14 dash was ridiculous. 15+ dash is the best dash currently on the market

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DarkSide

$20k is a lot of dough for getting on plane a little easier and a nicer dash. And youll never have a problem getting on plane unless you are sacking the s*** outta these boats(2-3k over stock weight)...not many dudes need that much weight to wakeboard and the PW2 wont help you for surfing. Id save the dough, buy a bigger prop if youre worried.

NOT TRUE! Power Wedge makes a significant difference in your surf wave.

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CJAY

NOT TRUE! Power Wedge makes a significant difference in your surf wave.

It really does, and more engine helps you maintain speed when surfing in rougher water. 2-3k is 1-2k less than we run surfing

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Davidda

There are a lot of 15's out there and most have the 350. I also have the 350 and have always felt it was a bit underpowered at times. So maybe the question is will a 2015 with a 350, PW etc...be a better step up money wise then going to the 2016 with the 410? There are a few 15's with the 450 out there, but really want to work through my dealer.

Edited by Davidda

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TenTwentyOne

Not trying to poke the bear, but I heard the surf band isn't working on the '16s. He said it worked inside boat, but not behind it. (Coming from a friend with a '15 that was looking at a '16)

He didn't like the power plant either. He is sticking with his 15.

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augie09

maybe I should not sell my 14, lol. Noisy engine and same displacement from base motor to an upgrade. that's a joke. Buy the base and tune it yourself.

I haven't had any issues with my '14 dash. It did take some getting used to, but we got figured out.

I also have started thinking about g23's. 14lsv swap to a 14 g23. Need to find a demo g23. Never ridden behind a nautique.

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Fman

maybe I should not sell my 14, lol. Noisy engine and same displacement from base motor to an upgrade. that's a joke. Buy the base and tune it yourself.

I haven't had any issues with my '14 dash. It did take some getting used to, but we got figured out.

I also have started thinking about g23's. 14lsv swap to a 14 g23. Need to find a demo g23. Never ridden behind a nautique.

Lol, what are your RPMS when surfing? :surprised:

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67King

Ford is an OHC engine. The biggest source of noise is probably the cam chain drive system. It has two of them, a bit more exposed (i.e. not behind the water pump), and longer. I don't know if it uses an NVH chain, or a roller, that would make a difference.

That said, the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. And you're comparing a base engine to a premium engine. I'd trade my Monsoon for a Raptor in a heartbeat.

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tjklein

This doesnt sound right. EDIT - I stand corrected the 400 and the 440 both have same displacement, bore, stroke etc. Maybe it is the same??

Ive heard its more through the firewall than through the exhaust. I would imagine some dynamat could help this easy enough. I rode behind a 2016 and didnt think it was that loud. It was the 450.

$20k is a lot of dough for getting on plane a little easier and a nicer dash. And youll never have a problem getting on plane unless you are sacking the s*** outta these boats(2-3k over stock weight)...not many dudes need that much weight to wakeboard and the PW2 wont help you for surfing. Id save the dough, buy a bigger prop if youre worried.

Dynamat dampens vibration for the most part. Insulation and such would help, but it's still going to be noticeably louder.

The Raptor motor is indeed louder. It's the nature of that motor and the design unfortunately. Good performer, but the upgrade charge is BS. It's an absolute scam IMO...but then again $14k for the LSA isn't exactly a bargain. :-)

Almost upgraded myself but as others said I couldn't justify the upgrade because it would really change my on the water experience. The dash is better for sure, but with the LSA the PW2 doesn't make any difference to me. My boat never struggles to plane out.

Plus the supercharged Ford motor requires 93 octane for peak performance compared to 91 for the LSA. And the increased the upgrade price... :-(

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augie09

Lol, what are your RPMS when surfing? :surprised:

who knows, I've never looked at rpms in 5 years.

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