Are we over weighting surfgate boats?

[Cory]

If you are surfing goofy, weight distribution is much more forgiving. Yesterday, I surfed (and drove) a 2014 Supra (21'). It gave a great wave will all hidden ballast. It also drove really well when weighted up. I far prefer the fit, finish, and styling of my VLX though.

[Fman]

Cory, have you tried filling 800's full, hard tanks full with no wedge? Seems like this would simulate having 600's with using the wedge.

[dfarhood]

You know what I was thinking the other day... a really slick way to add lead would be to have the cushion bases on the bow cushions changed over from starboard to lead. You could probably get a couple hundred pounds up there that way and nobody would know it till you tried to move a cushion.

Now just to reupholster your 1 year old boat... Do Monel staples work on lead?

[Cory]

Cory, have you tried filling 800's full, hard tanks full with no wedge? Seems like this would simulate having 600's with using the wedge.

No, I haven't tried that but I think the wedge also diverts prop wash so it isn't a direct replacement for ballast.

[wakebrdr94]

We were talking to a wakeboard rep the other day and discussing this very topic, here was his take on it....

He said there is a misconception about the more weight the better, and that distribution plays a huge role (which we all would agree on). But at some point with so much weight in the bow, you are getting diminishing returns on your wake/wave. Think of it like a teeter totter. You have the back weighted so heavily that you can't plane, boat is just dragging. Now you throw a 1000lb sac in the nose, and keep the same rear weight, same speed. Essentially you are using the nose weight to "lift" the back end out of the water helping you to plane. The same thing can be accomplished merely by lowering the amount of weight you run in the rear. Also most who run huge amounts of weight are running torque props which are great to give you the bite and get moving, but those also promote lift to help get the rear up and put you on plane. Wakeboarding behind a boat with a torque prop vs a 1235 (weighted the same) is noticeable

He also said it is better to run a mattress sac on the floor or a sac in the walkway starting at the windshield vs all the weight in the nose. You are not helping the rear "lift" per say, but weighting more properly.

Makes sense to me, but who knows...

*The views expressed above are the sole views of an industry wakeboard rep and do not represent the views of this poster. Names and companies have been omitted intentionally to protect the innocent. The poster takes no responsibility for misrepresentation or false information, either intentional or non intentional, or supports claims of how to properly weight your boat. If you disagree with the information presented, please write your local wakeboard company (which maybe they will respond), or direct all other questions to IXFE

Edited June 11, 2015 by wakebrdr94

[Fman]

Dave, this makes sense to me... Bunji's wake on his LSV is a great example. I am going to try his recipe of no wedge, 800's in my lockers full and full hard tanks with 200 lbs of bow weight. I am VERY intrigued by this. I might not have the same results with a 22VLX compared to the LSV but I would think it would be close. I also like the 500-600 rear bags with some wedge, but nothing in the bow other than maybe a couple passengers. I am totally guilty of just assuming you need that heavy bow weight for Surfgate, but definitely looking forward to trying some new recipes over the next few weeks.

[Stevo]

*The views expressed above are the sole views of an industry wakeboard rep and do not represent the views of this poster. Names and companies have been omitted intentionally to protect the innocent. The poster takes no responsibility for misrepresentation or false information, either intentional or non intentional, or supports claims of how to properly weight your boat. If you disagree with the information presented, please write your local wakeboard company (which maybe they will respond), or direct all other questions to IXFE

Is this your new signature?

Edited June 11, 2015 by Stevo

[wakebrdr94]

It might be

Edited June 11, 2015 by wakebrdr94

[Afun]

Some opposing views here. Maybe with the new hull things are different. Nose weight vs weight in the walkway creates more lift in the rear...interesting?

I just can't imagine this " light setup" giving your SG boat optimal push and developing a strong sweet spot towards the rear of the wave. The moment I lighten my setup the rear sweet spot gets weaker with less push. This also happens when I give the boat less wedge. The front of the wave usually also has a nice sweet spot. Since I always drop back to set up my surf ride, that rear sweet spot is very important to me. I could really mess up an attempted aerial, and the rear of my wave will usually catch me and allow me to stick with the wave.

[IXFE]

It might be

Cool... you're free to use my name; the royalty is only $0.05/post. My crack team of lawyers (Cory & Shawn) are drafting the docs. They will be in touch soon.

[emoji106]

[Ndawg12]

We were talking to a wakeboard rep the other day and discussing this very topic, here was his take on it....

He said there is a misconception about the more weight the better, and that distribution plays a huge role (which we all would agree on). But at some point with so much weight in the bow, you are getting diminishing returns on your wake/wave. Think of it like a teeter totter. You have the back weighted so heavily that you can't plane, boat is just dragging. Now you throw a 1000lb sac in the nose, and keep the same rear weight, same speed. Essentially you are using the nose weight to "lift" the back end out of the water helping you to plane. The same thing can be accomplished merely by lowering the amount of weight you run in the rear. Also most who run huge amounts of weight are running torque props which are great to give you the bite and get moving, but those also promote lift to help get the rear up and put you on plane. Wakeboarding behind a boat with a torque prop vs a 1235 (weighted the same) is noticeable

He also said it is better to run a mattress sac on the floor or a sac in the walkway starting at the windshield vs all the weight in the nose. You are not helping the rear "lift" per say, but weighting more properly.

Makes sense to me, but who knows...

*The views expressed above are the sole views of an industry wakeboard rep and do not represent the views of this poster. Names and companies have been omitted intentionally to protect the innocent. The poster takes no responsibility for misrepresentation or false information, either intentional or non intentional, or supports claims of how to properly weight your boat. If you disagree with the information presented, please write your local wakeboard company (which maybe they will respond), or direct all other questions to IXFE

I've been saying this about my 247 and bow weight, it doesn't really like it. Rather than sinking the boat more to displace more water it seems to raise the transom and flatten out the wave. Not feasible but I'd like to see someone with an SG boat (if I find time I will) load up the cabin floor, windshield to rear seat bases, with 3k and see what happens.

[bunji169]

I am not against experimenting. When we meet up July 1, I will be more than willing to take suggestions on how to make wave better. My thought would be, especially if we have 8-9 adults in boat, to start with minimal weight and go from there. Just to see how it changes the wave. We are all looking for the same thing. Best overall wave with least amount of weight for better efficiency. My general thought is, if a ton more weight only results in a nominally better wave, then it's not worth the extra fuel and wear and tear on the engine. I typically only run everything full to max when there are only 3-4 people in the boat, otherwise it just doesn't seem necessary.

[mrnate450r]

I'm headed out for a week long vacation on the lake tomorrow, but we won't hit the water until Saturday. I have 800's in the lockers and an 1100 Ronix telescoping bag. Give me some suggestions(other than what has been stated), and I will give them a try. We usually run the bow bag around 1/2-3/4 full to help with the bow rise. I would imagine if I eliminate the wedge, bow rise won't be as much of an issue.

[augie09]

Well last summer I built a DIY gate and if I filled the ballast the gate would be underwater completely and the wave was OK. This summer I added about 4 inches to the top of my gate and the wave is awesome with ballast full.

Not sure if a factory surf gate can have the same problem when it's too far underwater.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

makes sense. Surfgate works because it reduces the canceling force from the opposing wake, so as the top of the gate goes under water, little more is gained. BUT, Ive noticed that if I weight the boat to the swim platform is in the water, once, the boat is underway, the swim platform is above the water because the pocket created by forward motion. so depth at idle and underway is different.

I went from 800lb bag in bow and wedge to no wedge and no bag and felt more push. Maybe i am crazy. (still had all factory full and 750 pnp's)

[saxton15]

I suppose without the wedge, water is moving quicker under the hull and right to the wave?

[malibu2004]

The boat says how many passengers and or weight the boat can handle. If you go over either you're over the weight limits of the boat.

[shawndoggy]

The boat says how many passengers and or weight the boat can handle. If you go over either you're over the weight limits of the boat.

LOL. So if you take the industry association plate out of the boat then how much can it handle?

[wakebrdr94]

LOL. So if you take the industry association plate out of the boat then how much can it handle?

No, but if you leave it in you can be ticketed if the officer so chooses for unsafe operation.

But we know this going in....

Edited June 11, 2015 by wakebrdr94

[shawndoggy]

No, but kid you leave it in you can be ticketed if the officer so chooses for unsafe operation.

But we know this going in....

Unsafe is unsafe. I mean does the ticketing officer make everyone get on a scale and then weigh ballast before deciding whether to ticket? I don't see how not having a plate would get you out of an unsafe operation ticket if you are operating in a way that a LEO considers to be unsafe.

Edited June 11, 2015 by shawndoggy

[DarkSide]

I have been playing with this a bit this year as well. I think i have been over weighting the bow. For me it is looking like 600~750 is the sweet spot. I run roughly 1500 in each rear corner. I was running 1100 in the bow. Nice super long wave, but recently really liking the less bow weight.

As for total weight, overloading? Depends on what you want. Last year when i was 310 pounds wanting to ride a skim board ropeless, i NEEDED MORE WEIGHT! This year 250ish riding surf style, i could get away with less weight, but i love the length and size the extra weight gives to the wave.

Edited June 11, 2015 by DarkSide

[Fman]

The boat says how many passengers and or weight the boat can handle. If you go over either you're over the weight limits of the boat.

That pretty much sums up every wakeboat on the water. Who does not run over the coast guard rating? I think my 22vlx is around 2000 lbs, so hard tanks full and 4 passengers and we are over the limit. Does not even include gear, stereo, bags in the lockers.

[shawndoggy]

That pretty much sums up every wakeboat on the water. Who does not run over the coast guard rating? I think my 22vlx is around 2000 lbs, so hard tanks full and 4 passengers and we are over the limit. Does not even include gear, stereo, bags in the lockers.

look at that plate closely the next time you get a chance. Coast guard has nothing to do with it.

[jtryon]

tangent, saw a Malibu the other day with a white sticker on the inside of the black illusion x tower that read "THIS BOAT DOESN'T RUN ON THANKS" I get it.... but kind of a Richard thing to put out there like that IMHO

agreed. everyone thinks it from time to time, but that's an easy way to get rid of your riding partners. IMO no one buys a boat thinking they're not going to have to pay for gas ever again.

[wakebrdr94]

Unsafe is unsafe. I mean does the ticketing officer make everyone get on a scale and then weigh ballast before deciding whether to ticket? I don't see how not having a plate would get you out of an unsafe operation ticket if you are operating in a way that a LEO considers to be unsafe.

Come down to lake havasu and see if the check for the maximum capacity plate when you get stopped for a "safety" check. I've never removed my plate, but I know people who have for that reason.

[shawndoggy]

Come down to lake havasu and see if the check for the maximum capacity plate when you get stopped for a "safety" check. I've never removed my plate, but I know people who have for that reason.

But what I am saying is how is the determination that you are over capacity made? Does the officer weigh the boat, the people, the ballast, etc?