AudioEngine B1 for Bluetooth Source

3 Boats · March 24, 2015

I've been fighting with the (multiple) factory Bluetooth solutions for awhile (Rockford Fosgate, Viper II), and realizing that this was the source of my audio and probably not worth chancing things on a $25 budget Bluetooth Adapter, I decided to get one of these:

AudioEngine makes some fantastic gear and are known for their high quality and value. The AudioEngine B1 is not cheap at $189 but it seemingly would offer the highest quality Bluetooth available. There are a lot of nice reviews on the unit if you Google for them, here's a good one: http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/audioengine/b1.htm

For sound quality the short of it is: It supports lossless Bluetooth profiles, and for iPhone it can decode files in their native format so as high quality as they are on your phone they should be on this device. Previously I had messed with the AirEnabler to get lossless streaming audio, and although it worked great it was a bit fiddly with noise and always required manually connecting.

After initial connection this device PAIRS AUTOMATICALLY, which is brilliant especially if you have endured the last couple of Bluetooth solutions from Malibu which would require manually connecting (which would also fail occasionally.)

It has massive range, here's a pic from my shop where I was well over 50 feet away and still had no connection issues (this is much better than the 8 feet I can get from factory Bluetooth):

To install was fairly simple, I just used the same 12v power coming over for my EQ and wired up a new USB plug. I used this one but there are probably 100's to pick from:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQ5JS7I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then I used some velcro tape to stick the AudioEngine up under the dash. There is tons of room up there you can just pick any spot as you won't need access to it once its wired in (the front button is not required for pairing.)

Then I ran RCA straight into the back of my eq. It was nice to be able to use a super short RCA cable rather than having something home run all the way back to the RF black box on the passenger side storage. If you are still using the factory system without an EQ you can wire the AudioEngine B1 near the amps.

But if I use this, don't I lose factory controls for prev / next track / play / pause?

Yes but if you use the Viper II Bluetooth you won't get those anyway in the Sport Dash, you do maintain them on the MTC screen. Rockford Fosgate works on those but has severe sound quality issues. I use my phone to control the stereo and that works fine for me.

Having the factory controls would be nice but I would not like to sacrifice sound quality for a few buttons to work.

What about plugging straight in, who needs Bluetooth?

If you are ok plugging your phone or iPod in as your music source then go for it. Personally I like to be cordfree if possible. Also the cellphone holder on the 2015 sport dash has a USB power source right below it, but plugging into it to charge while being plugged into the headphone jack creates a ground loop noise issue.

I got everything straight factory and it sounds great, why do I need this?

If everything sounds good to you and you aren't having any pairing issues then great! The B1 does have the advantage of pairing automatically and will definitely beat the range of the factory Bluetooth but if you do not care about that then this is just added cost and will lose you some of those OEM controls.

I have an iPhone, what about AirEnabler or other AirPlay solution?

The AudioEngine B1 connects automatically which is really nice (no joining wi-fi networks and then selecting Bluetooth source etc., it just connects as soon as you turn it on.) Also it supports lossless profiles so it should offer the same quality advantages as AirPlay.

Its also Bluetooth so it will work with non-Apple products as well.

Finally it has a high quality power isolation system and DAC so you do not have to fiddle with different combos of USB isolators and aftermarket DACs like you do with the AirEnabler... the AirEnabler starts cheap but gets expensive when you start calculating these add-ons.

-----

That's it, hope that's helpful to you guys!

13,087 · March 24, 2015

What about plugging straight in, who needs Bluetooth?
If you are ok plugging your phone or iPod in as your music source then go for it. Personally I like to be cordfree if possible. Also the cellphone holder on the 2015 sport dash has a USB power source right below it, but plugging into it to charge while being plugged into the headphone jack creates a ground loop noise issue.

I wonder if you could fix this issue by rewiring the USB plug by the phone holder to get power and ground in common with your EQ?

3 Boats · March 24, 2015

I wonder if you could fix this issue by rewiring the USB plug by the phone holder to get power and ground in common with your EQ?

Yeah I think you could.... I know its a service port for firmware upgrades but I think the cubby box next to throttle works for that to. They are both extensions for USB ports in the back of the Viper II so you could probably flip them around.

13,087 · March 24, 2015

oh I wouldn't want to be messing with any data carrying usb port. I thought it was just a charging port.

2,131 · March 24, 2015

Do you use Apple devices? Get An AirEnabler and be done

Edited March 25, 2015 by wakebrdr94

3 Boats · March 25, 2015

Do you use Apple devices? Get An AirEnabler and be done

I got one, I have played with different combos of DACs and USB Isolators and for the most part killed any noise issues. I don't like having to join network re-select Bluetooth source every time... the AudioEngine automatically connects. Also doesn't have the built in delay like AirPlay.

Also was looking for something cross platform for my non Apple bro / hos.

Edited March 25, 2015 by pkh

2,131 · March 25, 2015

Then let the non Apple bros n ho's buy you one, you already supplied the boat :thumbsup:

In all seriousness, the only time I don't connect to my enabler is when I am leaving our house, but it is only because I automatically connect to the wifi in the house. Once on the water, it switches automatically to the enabler because that is the network it recognizes

Edited March 25, 2015 by wakebrdr94

4,586 · March 25, 2015

Pkh, couple questions...

Assuming you could run that directly into a ZLD eq? Aux in?

Do you loose sound quality using Bluetooth compared to hard wired 3.5mm plug in? I have been told by multiple people Bluetooth will never have same quality as a hard wired connection. What is your thought on this?

4,586 · March 25, 2015

One other question, if you have multiple devices in the boat how does it determine who is synced up? Does it allow more than one device to be synced? Or do people have to log off and log in depending on what device you want to use?

2,131 · March 25, 2015

Pkh, couple questions...
Assuming you could run that directly into a ZLD eq? Aux in?
Do you loose sound quality using Bluetooth compared to hard wired 3.5mm plug in? I have been told by multiple people Bluetooth will never have same quality as a hard wired connection. What is your thought on this?

Bluetooth compresses audio files and you lose quality. Some people can not tell the difference, you and I included, IF it is a good bluetooth. You can definitely tell the quality in some. Think of it like when you are on the phone with someone with a crappy Bluetooth and you can barely hear them, while some you don't even know they using a Bluetooth because it's so clear. A straight wired connection will always be better as there is no compression. This is why I'm also on a kick with wifi in the boat vs Bluetooth. One it is better sound quality as wifi does not compress audio the way Bluetooth does, also the range is so much greater.

The downfall of AirPlay was you needed a wifi network, which was usually in your home or building, thanks to devices like the airenabler, Or a hacked airport, they act as stand alone units and allow you to use AirPlay.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/blog/difference-between-airplay-bluetooth

Edited March 25, 2015 by wakebrdr94

3 Boats · March 25, 2015

Pkh, couple questions...
Assuming you could run that directly into a ZLD eq? Aux in?
Do you loose sound quality using Bluetooth compared to hard wired 3.5mm plug in? I have been told by multiple people Bluetooth will never have same quality as a hard wired connection. What is your thought on this?

There are many versions / profiles of Bluetooth. For example the AudioEngine supports aptX which is a lossless one. Unfortunately for iPhone users (like myself) its not aptX is not currently supported.

However, they do support A2DP which streams at 320kps which is much higher than what you get out of iTunes. In general the iPhone and the Bluetooth receiver are capable of making a data connection in which the song can be downloaded quickly enough that quality does not need to be degraded.

Also the AudioEngine has a high quality DAC and power supply that is capable of putting out 2V of source, about twice that of what you get out of the headphone jack of your phone / iPod. So I'd make the argument that its as least as good, maybe even better.

3 Boats · March 25, 2015

One other question, if you have multiple devices in the boat how does it determine who is synced up? Does it allow more than one device to be synced? Or do people have to log off and log in depending on what device you want to use?

I haven't tested it but I'd imagine it would work where any one could boot someone else if they wanted, there isn't a password or anything. The button on the front of the device when held for a few seconds will disconnect the current paired phone. So if you were worried about that you could just make it accessible.

I kind of like the idea of making it really easy to jump on the Bluetooth, that way buddies can easily stream their music if they want to.

March 25, 2015

@pkh - You have definitely been doing your BT homework. Everything you have said is accurate. 99% of the devices out on the market have very low output and are BT3.0 or not certified at all. APTX is pretty amazing (depending upon which chipset is used).

2,131 · March 25, 2015

In order to take advantage of APTX, both devices must have it. An iPhone user (like ourselves) could still sync to the device, but it would be at the "Normal" Bluetooth rate. Also, you really do not know if APTX is enabled or not. It would seem beneficial if there were a light or some sort of indicator telling you that the higher format was running. I would suspect most still could not tell a difference, especially when most of use are running MP3s which is compressed music to begin with.

The biggest issue I have is range. Some BT work fine when you are in the boat, but cut out while wiping the boat down. Some give a little better, but the max limit is roughly 30', which I have yet to actually see an BT device in our boats do that, best I have seen is about 10-15'. Which doesn't cut it for controlling music from the deck of our place

Edited March 25, 2015 by wakebrdr94

March 25, 2015

Then I ran RCA straight into the back of my eq. It was nice to be able to use a super short RCA cable rather than having something home run all the way back to the RF black box on the passenger side storage. If you are still using the factory system without an EQ you can wire the AudioEngine B1 near the amps.

Thanks for the write up. Very interesting.

Sadly I am a complete novice as far as audio electronics is concerned, but I am interested in a solution.

I am still struggling to understand that if a direct connection of the source via the BB works fine, and a BT connection is poor, doesn't that point to the RF BT module, and replacing that with a better one (like the B1) wouldn't that maybe help? Maybe there are no standard BT connections, and the RF BT module is not interchangeable.

R

Edited March 25, 2015 by randv

2,295 · March 25, 2015

The RFBT module is a piece of crap.

I told ya'll this 2 years ago. I own 2 of them just to prove that they are crappy. Problem is, the RFBT is about the only current way to keep your factory integrated controls and have BT capability.

3 Boats · March 25, 2015

The biggest issue I have is range. Some BT work fine when you are in the boat, but cut out while wiping the boat down. Some give a little better, but the max limit is roughly 30', which I have yet to actually see an BT device in our boats do that, best I have seen is about 10-15'. Which doesn't cut it for controlling music from the deck of our place

Did you see the pic I posted above? I would say at least 50', and I haven't found the limit yet... AudioEngine claims it can do 100' ... I will try to test by going outside today and see how far I can get.

I had all the same opinions as you about Bluetooth vs. AirPlay, but its an evolving protocol and it has a lot to do with the quality of the receiver. Personally I trust AudioEngine to make a better receiver then I can by piecing together AirPlay parts.

3 Boats · March 25, 2015

Thanks for the write up. Very interesting.
Sadly I am a complete novice as far as audio electronics is concerned, but I am interested in a solution.
I am still struggling to understand that if a direct connection of the source via the BB works fine, and a BT connection is poor, doesn't that point to the RF BT module, and replacing that with a better one (like the B1) wouldn't that maybe help? Maybe there are no standard BT connections, and the RF BT module is not interchangeable.
R

The RF dongle is a proprietary piece so there is no replacing it with the AudioEngine. You could put the AudioEngine on the aux input of the factory stereo and I am sure it would work much better than the factory solutions, but you would lose the track controls. The Viper II is also a source you could use, it sounds better than RF one but does not work with track controls, and I have found it to be prone to engine noise.

2,131 · March 25, 2015

The RF dongle is a proprietary piece so there is no replacing it with the AudioEngine. You could put the AudioEngine on the aux input of the factory stereo and I am sure it would work much better than the factory solutions, but you would lose the track controls. The Viper II is also a source you could use, it sounds better than RF one but does not work with track controls, and I have found it to be prone to engine noise.

I guess my question is do you need track controls when you control it from your device? Maybe it's me, but I don't know anyone who stores their phone or music device I. The glove box while streaming.

I agree, it is an evolving technology. I hope this one works well for you. There were so many complaints about Bluetooth prior that even in my boat, I took a home unit and converted to to USB power as it was the only decent way to achieve decent Bluetooth. We're all looking for an easy solution. And I definitely see most not wanting open and solder a piece of equipment, it's not everyone. For me, since I am in the apple world, and I like projects, AirPlay works best. For 20 min swap of power supply's, it's well worth it to me, and still cheaper

Edited March 25, 2015 by wakebrdr94

1,544 · March 25, 2015

Pkh, couple questions...
Assuming you could run that directly into a ZLD eq? Aux in?
Do you loose sound quality using Bluetooth compared to hard wired 3.5mm plug in? I have been told by multiple people Bluetooth will never have same quality as a hard wired connection. What is your thought on this?

With a typical music storage mp3 type player, especially apple, you have 2 hard wire options, data port and headphone jack.

Data port is going to be the best output hands down.

The 3.5mm headphone jack's output is intended for small over the ear or earbud type headphones. For this reason, its a real low level output. Thats not even getting into the compressed quality of the music file itself.

With a quality BT transmitter and receiver, I dont think there is going to be any less of a quality signal vie BT as compare to the headphone jack.

13,087 · March 25, 2015

With a typical music storage mp3 type player, especially apple, you have 2 hard wire options, data port and headphone jack.
Data port is going to be the best output hands down.
The 3.5mm headphone jack's output is intended for small over the ear or earbud type headphones. For this reason, its a real low level output. Thats not even getting into the compressed quality of the music file itself.
With a quality BT transmitter and receiver, I dont think there is going to be any less of a quality signal vie BT as compare to the headphone jack.

totally agree. In my MB I had a clarion headunit with USB which would play my iphone through the data port, and then also a miccus bluetooth receiver. I could switch back and forth between the two and there is no way you could tell a difference. Maybe it's because of the compressed nature of my MP3s (most are 192kps), but seriously, the bluetooth sounded just as good as the data port. The headphone cable was far and away much worse sounding.

Part of the reason I think my BT dongle sounded good is that it was going through the AUX side of my HSE revolution and then the Exile ZLD. AFAIK, there is a line driver component to the HSE, which boosts the signal before the ZLD. I do know when my first HSE died and I ran the HU and BT dongle directly to the ZLD, sound quality dropped appreciably.

Edited March 25, 2015 by shawndoggy

2,131 · March 25, 2015

So now I am even more intrigued with this. Wouldn't the distance be dependent on the ability of your transmitting device? Or is the receiver outing out a signal too and they just have to meet?

So if the iPhone is capable of transmitting 50', the receiver would also have to transmit 50' and make the connection to allow for 100'?

Bluetooth does not transmit 100', from everything I have read, this is why I am asking

13,087 · March 25, 2015

I think range is all about the antenna and how many obstructions between the source and the receiver.. I have a miccus home RTX which claims 50' range and it has a wifi router style antenna on it. Looks like the audioengine does too.

And my old sony BT deck in my 2006 vride had killer range:

(caution video has NSFW beastie boys lyrics):

Edited March 25, 2015 by shawndoggy

2,131 · March 25, 2015

Nice. I was under the impression, and obviously have been known to be wrong, but I thought Bluetooth was limited because of the low power it uses vs obstructions

1,544 · March 25, 2015

So now I am even more intrigued with this. Wouldn't the distance be dependent on the ability of your transmitting device? Or is the receiver outing out a signal too and they just have to meet?
So if the iPhone is capable of transmitting 50', the receiver would also have to transmit 50' and make the connection to allow for 100'?
Bluetooth does not transmit 100', from everything I have read, this is why I am asking

Yes, there are differences between receiver quality. Round here, we use 3 phones and 2 tablets for blue tooth on 2-3 different receivers. There is a noticeable difference in range and sound quality between them.

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

AudioEngine B1 for Bluetooth Source

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