Ford Turbo Thread, (not Just another F150 Thread)

[Bozboat]

It looks like Ford left plenty of capacity on the table when they tuned my EB to 365 hp.

Ecoboost in the new GT, 592 hp

Link to new GT article

New Ford Raptor with Ecoboost 500 lbs lighter with a rumored HP 450-500 and 10 speed auto

Edited January 12, 2015 by Bozboat

[REW]

yes they did, however you trade some of that power for dependability. Ford will mostlikely boost the power after they see how the truck is performing in the field with consumers instead of test engineers at the controlls.

[Technicallyabu]

Two friends with ecoboosts just had their engines go. Seems like they really don't like short trips in cold weather.

[tjklein]

I love turbocharged vehicles (have owned a few), but you won't see the long term reliability out the Ecoboost motors compared to a standard V*. They survive the torture tests, but what the torture tests don't replicate is the time, short trips, winters, abuse by owners, etc.

It's really pretty simple...more power, more stress on parts, and mainly more parts to break. Now on the flip side, you've gained more power and slightly better mileage too. Relating it back to boats...I know my LSA won't be as reliable as the Monsoon, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to deal with.

Kudos to Ford for bringing turbocharged truck motors to the market. Many if not all will eventually follow in some shape or form.

Edited January 13, 2015 by tjklein

[ajeep4u]

How about all those turbo diesels that just fall apart and blow up all over the place. Man what a chaotic mess that is.

[Slayer]

I love turbocharged vehicles (have owned a few), but you won't see the long term reliability out the Ecoboost motors compared to a standard V*. They survive the torture tests, but what the torture tests don't replicate is the time, short trips, winters, abuse by owners, etc.

It's really pretty simple...more power, more stress on parts, and mainly more parts to break. Now on the flip side, you've gained more power and slightly better mileage too. Relating it back to boats...I know my LSA won't be as reliable as the Monsoon, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to deal with.

Kudos to Ford for bringing turbocharged truck motors to the market. Many if not all will eventually follow in some shape or form.

The future of all gassers, trucks or small cars, is moving toward turbo direct injection. I think the coming years will see lots of this along with far more advancements in transmission technology. Pretty cool stuff, actually.

[ahopkins22LSV]

I am sorry, and call me old school... But if I am buying a super car or a truck like a raptor, I was earth rumbling, ear drum shattering, all AMERICAN muscle from roar from a V8.

I totally get the technology is there to produce good engines out of a V6 with turbo's and the injection systems. But I don't want to be the guy, "Hey here is my muscle car. Yeah it has a V6, but it is still cool. Vroom."

Edited January 13, 2015 by ahopkinsTXi

[Indyxc]

I love turbocharged vehicles (have owned a few), but you won't see the long term reliability out the Ecoboost motors compared to a standard V*. They survive the torture tests, but what the torture tests don't replicate is the time, short trips, winters, abuse by owners, etc.

It's really pretty simple...more power, more stress on parts, and mainly more parts to break. Now on the flip side, you've gained more power and slightly better mileage too. Relating it back to boats...I know my LSA won't be as reliable as the Monsoon, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to deal with.

Kudos to Ford for bringing turbocharged truck motors to the market. Many if not all will eventually follow in some shape or form.

True story. The more components any system has, the less reliable it will be. It is simple math, no component is 100% reliable, therefore it's just another reduction of reliability in the system.

My personal view is the ecoboost maybe great if you plan to keep the truck for 3 years. 5+ years and you're going to have more problems than a comparable v8 NA engine.

[JoeA]

Just curious if anybody is riding with 100K+ miles on an ecoboost engine and if so are these engines proving to be reliable? I drive at least 40K miles per year and like the ecoboost engine but just wonder about long term reliability.

I'm driving a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel (turbo) and have 45K miles now. So far so good but just wonder if EB engines are holding up well for the long term. I'd love to have a 2017 Raptor but it's probably a bad choice given the miles I drive in a year.

[Lance B. Johnson]

True story. The more components any system has, the less reliable it will be. It is simple math, no component is 100% reliable, therefore it's just another reduction of reliability in the system.

My personal view is the ecoboost maybe great if you plan to keep the truck for 3 years. 5+ years and you're going to have more problems than a comparable v8 NA engine.

Maybe we should go back to the '90s then?

What about computers, TVs, dishwashers, washing machines, microwaves etc. Every thing I can think of has more features and options and gadgets and doo-hickeys then ever and they are more reliable. My dad hasn't had to take his shoe off to throw it at the TV for years

First off this is how engines gain reliability through the years. Ten years ago a 3.5 making this kind of HP and torque woudn't be reliable at all. The next generation EB will be extremely reliable, my prediction.

Secondly direct injection/ turbo has been used in diesels for years. Diesels tended to be very reliable and yet the cylinder pressures tend to be extremely high.

Third, up until recently turbo'd engines were largely gas engines with turbo strapped on...not true in the case the EB engines. Much of the construction is borrowed from diesels.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Lance B. Johnson

[martinarcher]

Maybe we should go back to the '90s then?

What about computers, TVs, dishwashers, washing machines, microwaves etc. Every thing I can think of has more features and options and gadgets and doo-hickeys then ever and they are more reliable. My dad hasn't had to take his she off to throw it at the TV for years

First off this is how engines gain reliability through the years. Ten years ago a 3.5 making this kind of HP and torque woudn't be reliable at all. The next generation EB will be extremely reliable, my prediction.

Secondly direct injection/ turbo has been used in diesels for years. Diesels tended to be very reliable and yet the cylinder pressures tend to be extremely high.

Third, up until recently turbo'd engines were largely gas engines with turbo strapped on...not true in the case the EB engines. Much of the construction is borrowed from diesels.

Exactly. Don't forget most long haul trucks with 500k+ on the clock are running turbocharged diesels which like Ruff said is where a lot of the technology that went into the Ecoboost has come from. My money is on the Ecoboost 3.5 becoming Ford's next 7.3 in terms of reliability.

[tjklein]

How about all those turbo diesels that just fall apart and blow up all over the place. Man what a chaotic mess that is.

I appreciate your comment, but slow down now. Let's not compare the current generation Ecoboost to current diesel technology. They're not quite apples to apples. I love diesel engines, have 1 now and once the new F250 arrives plan to add my 2nd.

Think about cool down times, more parts, less time on the market, higher RPMs, and direct injection has proven to have issues in high mileage gas engines. (yet to be 100% known though)

I do know my current diesel does cost me more to maintain. I'm not in love with these new DEF systems, but I suppose it is best for the environment and I'm sure they'll get better over time.

[Slayer]

Exactly. Don't forget most long haul trucks with 500k+ on the clock are running turbocharged diesels which like Ruff said is where a lot of the technology that went into the Ecoboost has come from. My money is on the Ecoboost 3.5 becoming Ford's next 7.3 in terms of reliability.

I tend to agree with you, MA. I've heard lots of people whine and complain about the ecoboost. Mostly, I think it's people who fear change. Further to that point, for Ford to take a risk with the most profitable, highest selling vehicle they've ever produced without there being some proof of longevity and strength, is rather silly. JMHO. And yes.....I'm a Ford guy......and neither of my ecoboost F-150's were acquired with fuel economy in mind.

[Sixball]

My ski partner is closing in on 100k on his Eco. One bad coil on plug. 90K something.

[tjklein]

Exactly. Don't forget most long haul trucks with 500k+ on the clock are running turbocharged diesels which like Ruff said is where a lot of the technology that went into the Ecoboost has come from. My money is on the Ecoboost 3.5 becoming Ford's next 7.3 in terms of reliability.

Just like their 6.0 was going to be the next best thing after the 7.3....

:-) Couldn't resist. 3.5 is a great engine but you're a little off the mark comparing it to the 7.3. Completely different design and tech.

I do love the car/truck talk on here though! Good stuff.

Edited January 13, 2015 by tjklein

[Bozboat]

Other than expense, why wouldn't a Direct injection gas turbo work in a tow boat?

[dihrdskir]

Other than expense, why wouldn't a Direct injection gas turbo work in a tow boat?

Like this one? Only has a one year warranty for recreational use and could be a little over the top.

http://boatmastersblog.com/engines/mercury-racing-1350/

[G-Mack]

Like this one? Only has a one year warranty for recreational use and could be a little over the top.

http://boatmastersblog.com/engines/mercury-racing-1350/

why go for the little one... go big or go home

http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/engines/1650-2/

[Tims]

Just like their 6.0 was going to be the next best thing after the 7.3....

:-) Couldn't resist. 3.5 is a great engine but you're a little off the mark comparing it to the 7.3. Completely different design and tech.

I do love the car/truck talk on here though! Good stuff.

I appreciate your comment, but slow down now. Let's not compare the current generation Ecoboost to current diesel technology. They're not quite apples to apples. I love diesel engines, have 1 now and once the new F250 arrives plan to add my 2nd.

Think about cool down times, more parts, less time on the market, higher RPMs, and direct injection has proven to have issues in high mileage gas engines. (yet to be 100% known though)

I do know my current diesel does cost me more to maintain. I'm not in love with these new DEF systems, but I suppose it is best for the environment and I'm sure they'll get better over time.

Current diesel technology has more emission parts to break and subject to more heat stress (DPF regeneration) than the Ecoboost engine and the direct injection systems on the diesel are higher pressure and tolerance units that cannot handle any type of contamination.

[Bozboat]

I had a friend that burned out a turbo in a Volvo 760, dealer told him he needed to let it idle 4-5 mins before shutting down.

While I may let it idle some when coming off the highway or after towing, I usually just turn it off.

2015 Fords may have the on/off at stop feature which I think would drive me nuts, how does that square with letting the turbo cool down before shutting down?

[rennis]

Bozboat is talking logic ^, I came in here to say that you cannot treat a turbo motor like a normally asiprated V8. I've owned 4 turbocharged vehicles over the years and although the practice is old fashioned, they NEED a little extra care than a naturally aspirated motor.

- Cool down. I am a big proponent of cooling down turbo motors at idle, especially after long sustained drives or in any circumstance that produces heat. Heat is a turbo's biggest enemy and, well, they produce a lot of heat. To keep those bearings and oil feed lines clean and clear, continuous shut down immediately upon stopping is a no-go. I am a big believer in turbo timers, and/or afterrun water pumps and fans that will cool down the engine after shut down. Most turbo vehicles have that kind of stuff built-in from the factory, it's just a matter of unlocking the features and adding parts or lowering the settings so they operate every time the engine is shut down and has reached operating temps.

- Warm up. Same story - turbos like warm oil fed through them. Cold, thick oil does not lubricate nearly as well. If your oil is not up to operating temps and you're spinning up the turbos (to many thousands of rpms) and making boost, you're slowly damaging them. I always warm up turbo engines. Even for just a few minutes, and even more in cold months. And never get into the boost until the oil temps are up. A boost gauge and engine oil temp gauge are your friend here.

- Oil changes. Ignore factory intervals, they are bolshevik. Only use high quality synthetic oil and have it changed at least 2x as often as the factory suggests. If you really want to get precise, have Blackstone do an oil analysis for you and they'll give you a recommeneded interval based on your engine, the oil you use, and other factors. No engine is the same...

- Maintenance. You can neglect a naturally asiprated V8. You cannot do the same to a turbo'd anything. ALL factory service should be done at least as often as recommended intervals. Boost leaks, failing MAF's, degraded recirculation valves, and a litany of other parts can cause all kinds of problems. Turbo systems are just that - a system, and the whole thing needs to be serviced and checked frequently to ensure long life.

I would LOVE to own an Ecoboost engine'd ride someday, and am already lusting after the new Raptor. You can bet your bottom I'd treat that engine with a lot of extra care. To do otherwise is just asking for premature failure of turbos and related components.

Edited January 21, 2015 by rennis

[Tims]

^^^^^^While much is true from turbos of the past, the Ecoboost snails are oil and liquid cooled. No need for to idle before shutting down. Oil change intervals are managed by computer but generally are around 10,000 miles. Technically speaking you would have to change the oil more often in a earlier model N/A V8 due to contamination from inefficient fuel burn.

[Falko]

My last few cars have been turbo cars. The first one gave me a lot of issues because of the oil spec. It wanted semi-synthetic oil. I switched to full synthetic and the issues went away. Running full synthetic in a 0W-XX or 5W-XX reduces the amount of time you need to warm it up and shut down. One of the issues was shutting down an oil cooled turbo while hot would coke the oil. Not so true now. But you should still warm them and let them idle down before shut off as well. Not bad to do with any vehicle really.

[rennis]

^^^^^^While much is true from turbos of the past, the Ecoboost snails are oil and liquid cooled. No need for to idle before shutting down. Oil change intervals are managed by computer but generally are around 10,000 miles. Technically speaking you would have to change the oil more often in a earlier model N/A V8 due to contamination from inefficient fuel burn.

As I said, I'm old school with my turbo vehicles. I currently own two and both have oil and water fed turbos, and I always cool them down, even for just a few minutes. Typically enough time to walk out to the end of the driveway and check the mail, walk back, shut it down. With syntetic oil you won't get coke, but that doesn't mean the turbos aren't still phenomenally hot at the end of any sort of sustained driving.

My tow vehicle is twin turbo and I cool it down for at least 10 minutes after I tow. Overkill? Maybe. But cheap insurance and having been down the "turbo fairy is singing" road before, any prevention is good in my book.

[Bozboat]

People talk about driving around without "getting into the turbo" which makes me think of trying to drive a cheby without getting into the secondaries on the Rochester Turbo Jet when you turn the breather over.

Q, Driving gently and empty at 2000 rpm versus maintaining 70 at 2000 rpms while climbing the Loveland Pass pulling cargo trailer full of Old Milwaukee,

what controls how much turbo you get?