Exile ZLD MKII vs wetsounds WS420SQ?

[MLA]

I know you and David both say that about adjusting the sub xover point, but that's something I used on my ZLD a lot. With some music I wanted a more prominent sub both in level and in range (rap/pop) and so I'd set the xover a little higher, and on other music I want the sub to come in lower and blend more (rock), so I'd set the level lower and xover lower. All the time, there was also a threshold xover set on the amp (on the higher side, obviously).

Like the hanker for a hunk of cheese guy said, don't knock it till you try it.

Sounds like you were trying to use the low-pass x-over as a bass-boost. Those are completely different things. Your speaker's x-over point is a set and forget. If using the EQ's low-pass adjustment made a difference for you, you needed to go back to the sub and in-boat amp and readjust.

[shawndoggy]

Sounds like you were trying to use the low-pass x-over as a bass-boost. Those are completely different things. Your speaker's x-over point is a set and forget. If using the EQ's low-pass adjustment made a difference for you, you needed to go back to the sub and in-boat amp and readjust.

No, it sounds like I am varying the crossover frequency. level up and down is well... level up and down (essentially volume). Frequency is where the sub plays. I know how volume works, I know how the crossover works. And I know that depending on the type of music I may want to readjust those settings. The ZLD lets you do that on the fly.

Bass boost is essentially eq'ing up a segment, but within a given crossover range. That's not what I'm talking about doing... in my scenario, rather than bumping up the response the sub continues to play flat, just at a higher frequency.

What the zld offers is really no different than having a headunit with built in xovers (though only for the lowpass).... which pretty much all high end HUs have, right? Not exactly a "redundant and years back" feature.

[David]

We are all predisposed to have our own opinions and fixed ideas for any number of reasons. This is just the way I view things.

Fman,

To answer your question. I probably should have stated it a bit different. The voltage doesn't really combine. But 6 times 9 volts represents more current draw even with a low-current high-impedance preamp. But current does combine when all six channels are driven simultaneously. You can rate a single preamp channel based on the spec of that particular stand alone IC drive chip as stated in the Texas Instruments or other IC brochure. But when you multiply that times six channels it doesn't mean that the power supply is on equal terms. It takes two things for the preamp to deliver a given output voltage. Adequate amount of input gain and adequate supply voltage. If the power supply cannot keep up with the current demand then the voltage will drop. And that 9 V spec means very little. Just retro-fitting a new IC chip by itself into an existing EQ platform and power supply doesn't guarantee that each internal part will be performing at max spec.

Here is how higher voltage impacts your system. If your HU has an especially anemic output it will help to have a stronger preamp/line driver/EQ. It will serve to raise the dynamic range and lower the noise floor. After a certain amount of voltage you will see no difference in the audible performance. You are simply attenuating that extra voltage by reducing the input gain on your amplifiers. Past a given voltage your system will not play louder or sound any clearer.

Both EQs discussed in this thread have all the preout voltage needed in order to obtain the peak performance from your system.

Sometimes we place too much emphasis on specs that are unqualified or specs that we do not understand.

Specs are used by brands to get a competitive advantage. Some specs are accurate representations of the performance and some are not. You have never seen an amplifier brand state in their owners manual that they recommend no less than 8 or 9 volts in order to get the most out of their product.

[MLA]

Not exactly a "redundant and years back" feature

It is for a pre-amp EQ when any modern amp does it for you

If the subs enclosure is right and the sub amp and in-boat amp tuning is right, i dont see why the x-over needs to be changed on the fly based on the music genres. You want more pronounced bass, turn it up or turn down the full-range speaker volume. Narrowing or expanding the subs band width by adjusting the x-over, doesnt really achieve what I think you were after.

I understand the similarities between what a head unit and zld might offer in RE to the sub. IMO, its redundant and not needed with a modern low-pass amp.

[shawndoggy]

It is for a pre-amp EQ when any modern amp does it for you

So why are these features included in every modern high end headunit?

[MLA]

So why are these features included in every modern high end headunit?

Some but not all, but i do not have an answer. But why the need to limit the band width to an amp that has this adjustment. If you had a full-range only amp driving your sub, then yes, a head unit low pass filter would be needed.

[David]

An active crossover on an EQ....

It is true that this is leftover from past EQ platforms from the 80s and 90s before amplifiers universally had built in active crossovers. Just about all EQs once had this feature. And the only EQs that still have this non-defeatable feature are old EQ platforms coming from a common source. The parts may get moved around on the circuit board so that the knobs can get moved around on the face plate but the topology is identical trace for trace.

Understand that this is lowpass only and has zero effect on the four EQ front/rear or boat/tower outputs. Those remain fullrange.

If you have grown accustom to using this particular feature in a particular way then no one can argue with that preference. I can only give you my opinion on why I do or do not like it.

Shawn, from your description it appears that you are using a variable lowpass filter and gain on the fly like someone else would use equalization on the fly, namely a paragraphic bass tone control. You shift the frequency and alter the gain in a combination that you prefer.

Here is what I do not like about this feature. I do not want the overlapping and redundant lowpass filters of both the EQ and amplifier. That is one messy phase rotation with lots of ripple that almost guarantees that I can never get the seamless integration I am looking for between the sub and satellites.

Did you even know the type of filter and level of slope the EQ filter uses? How is that going to correspond to the filter type and slope of the highpass sections used in the amplifier? It is not specified and the two products come from different places. It certainly isn't a coordinated effort.

The way I tune a system the crossover is a very integral component and I never want to change the crossover again once I have it dialed in. I think that runs pretty consistent with specialists everywhere in marine or car audio.

HU xoxers are buried deep in menus. They certainly are not intended to change on the fly. Few use the HU xovers even though they are available.

[robtr8]

I use mine like Mr. Doggy. On certain tracks and in certain conditions, I like to boost the 100 hz area. With a driver right at your toes, having the sub localize can be a good thing. (For dramatic effect.)

[MLA]

I use mine like Mr. Doggy. On certain tracks and in certain conditions, I like to boost the 100 hz area. With a driver right at your toes, having the sub localize can be a good thing. (For dramatic effect.)

Im guessing you are referring to the old zld or another EQ? The current zld does not have bass boost, so you arent amplifying a particular Hz with the x-over, just widening or narrowing the low-pass window. But again, depending on how the amp is tuned, making this adjustment pre-amp at the EQ, may likely have little effect. Based on the ZLD manual, the sub amp's x-over needs to be set at 80Hz. So tuning the pre-amp low-pass x-over above that point is nullified by the amps roll off anyway. With the in-boats set @ 110, man, thats a huge gap. I guess I woud want to boost 100Hz too.

[shawndoggy]

Based on the ZLD manual, the sub amp's x-over needs to be set at 80Hz.

"(or as determined by your individual subwoofer)"

made me look. All I can think to say is duh, of course the amp's xover is going to be the ultimate governor, and of course if you set your amp at 80hz that's as high as it's going to play. it's like the volume control on an EQ and a volume control on a headunit. The EQ's volume can only go as high as the HU allows. Same with the xover frequency.

I don't know why I really care about this because I'm going to run the ws420sq in the new boat, other than you telling me that I'm wrong about my personal experience. Suggests to me that you've never actually tried it under real world conditions?

[MLA]

"(or as determined by your individual in-boats)"

made me look. All I can think to say is duh, of course the amp's xover is going to be the ultimate governor, and of course if you set your amp at 80hz that's as high as it's going to play. it's like the volume control on an EQ and a volume control on a headunit. The EQ's volume can only go as high as the HU allows. Same with the xover frequency.

I don't know why I really care about this because I'm going to run the ws420sq in the new boat, other than you telling me that I'm wrong about my personal experience. Suggests to me that you've never actually tried it under real world conditions?

Actually, my edit to your quote would be more accurate. The individual woofer has less to do with the low-pass cross over point, but more to do with transitioning to the mid-range.

I apologize that you took my comments personally. I am just trying to understand how you are trying to use the EQ, based on how its designed and how it functions.

[shawndoggy]

It would be an inaccurate quote, which is the impression you left with your prior post (i.e. that the user had failed to read the manual). If you disagree with the manual, give the full quote and then explain that the manual is wrong.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I think what you are trying to say is that you don't want a sub playing too much (12db per octave xovers will always play into one another) into the range reserved for the mids via highpass?

And what I'm trying to say is that under some circumstances (where a flat response is not desired), that's exactly what I've done, and enjoyed the result. Pretty sure I will miss that with the ws420sq.

[hunter77ah]

Ordered the ZLD.

[Levi900RR]

I went with the 420

[IXFE]

I went with the ZLD.

And round and round we go!

[Levi900RR]

[hunter77ah]

(stirring the pot)

[Murphy8166]

I went with your MOM!

[IXFE]

I went with your MOM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpNPw4H6_tU

[Murphy8166]

LOL - I like shrimp

[David]

strobe light.

[rjones]

Hah I'll add that I recently hopped on the WS420 bandwagon! Haven't messed with the ZLD so can't comment on it.