Exile ZLD MKII vs wetsounds WS420SQ?

[Fman]

+1 on the HSE, pulled it from vlx before it went. It's a marriage saver, almost as good as speed control. :-)

It's ashame they don't make them anymore :-(

[Bawshogg]

The new boats have built in volume control that actually works pretty well.

[hunter77ah]

So WS>Exile? I am just looking for a line driver/eq that will be somewhat easy to install. Currently running a single pair of xm7s from a harpoon with a pac1 attached to a 3.5mm input. It's noisy and the quality isn't great.

Thanks.

[MLA]

So WS>Exile? I am just looking for a line driver/eq that will be somewhat easy to install. Currently running a single pair of xm7s from a harpoon with a pac1 attached to a 3.5mm input. It's noisy and the quality isn't great.

Thanks.

Is there a specific question you have that isnt found in this thread or any of the others? One huge difference between the two is the mkII is a single eq, so what ever changes you make to the tower zone, effects the in-boat zone. The WS420SQ, or 420BT if you want blue tooth integrated, is a dual EQ in a single chassis. So you can adjust the in-boats and tower zones independently of each other. Both are a line driver and both are about the same to connect.

[rjones]

So WS>Exile? I am just looking for a line driver/eq that will be somewhat easy to install. Currently running a single pair of xm7s from a harpoon with a pac1 attached to a 3.5mm input. It's noisy and the quality isn't great.

Thanks.

Check out my thread I have going on to see my install of the WS-420 with some pics.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/53625-new-helm-subwoofer-encloser-design-help-for-malibu-247/page-2

I just installed the WS-420SQ and all I can say is it made a world of difference in SQ, Output, and just having total control of my system/zones now. Now I must say I have no experience with the Exile EQ but I really like the WS420 so far from the short 20 minutes I've played music on it so far. I can just imagine how much I will enjoy it this summer. I thought I was going to have to add line drivers but the 420 is a 5V line driver in itself and I have alot more output now than I did before.

[hunter77ah]

I'm looking for the warm comfy feeling that alleviates any type of buyers remorse. Ideally, someone would say, "Go with the WS420SQ, it will be a big improvement to your current setup". I have been leaning towards the 420 for sound quality reviews, but really liked the appearance of the ZLD.

Thanks.

[hunter77ah]

Check out my thread I have going on to see my install of the WS-420 with some pics.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/53625-new-helm-subwoofer-encloser-design-help-for-malibu-247/page-2

I just installed the WS-420SQ and all I can say is it made a world of difference in SQ, Output, and just having total control of my system/zones now. Now I must say I have no experience with the Exile EQ but I really like the WS420 so far from the short 20 minutes I've played music on it so far. I can just imagine how much I will enjoy it this summer. I thought I was going to have to add line drivers but the 420 is a 5V line driver in itself and I have alot more output now than I did before.

Thanks. This is what I was looking for!

[robtr8]

I'm looking for the warm comfy feeling that alleviates any type of buyers remorse. Ideally, someone would say, "Go with the WS420SQ, it will be a big improvement to your current setup". I have been leaning towards the 420 for sound quality reviews, but really liked the appearance of the ZLD.

Thanks.

The improvement is from adding a line driver (the part of the eq that bumps the input voltage) vs not having one before. That will be the case whether you go with the WS or Exile unit.

[Brian Young]

Biggest advantage of the WS420 is the ability to tune the towers separate from the in boats.

[IXFE]

The improvement is from adding a line driver (the part of the eq that bumps the input voltage) vs not having one before. That will be the case whether you go with the WS or Exile unit.

Except that the 420 is a 5V line driver while the ZLD is a 9V line driver... almost 2x the output.

[shawndoggy]

The $ per knob ratio is clearly much higher on the 420. 14 knobs for $300, for a $21.42 per knob value ratio. Only 9 knobs on the ZLD (11 if you count the buttons) for $300, for an inferior $33.33 (or $27.27 if you count the buttons) per knob value ratio.

Oh and if you count the button on the WS420 mic, the gap widens!

[MLA]

Except that the 420 is a 5V line driver while the ZLD is a 9V line driver... almost 2x the output.

Is that 9V per chnl or is that still divided like it was on the original ZLD?

[IXFE]

Is that 9V per chnl or is that still divided like it was on the original ZLD?

No idea. I'm just reading the specs.

The only reason I'd be tempted to get a 420 is the mic. I could see that being useful for instructing beginners. Sometimes we use a bull horn. No joke. Other than that, I don't see the value in being able to tune each and every zone separately. Maybe you guys like to tinker at that level. I just think it's more tuning than I'd ever use. Even on the ZLD I just do my tuning at the amps and leave the treb, mid, and bass knobs in the middle, never to be touched again (i.e. pushed in on the ZLD).

[David]

What? If you have no use for the equalization then flush mount the controls of a multi-zone line driver in the dash for one/third of the price of the EQ.

If I am running HLCDs on the tower then I want an EQ. Period. The adjustments I make might be subtle but will be impactful. I might use one tonal band modification only when transitioning between pulling and resting. But it's an important mod. And, I definitely do not want any tower tonal adjustments affecting my in-boat speakers.

Within the in-boat zone I may also have use for separate equalization, especially if I own a BU with speakers atop the dash as I need to soften those a bit. Not to mention some coaxials are voiced as if the designer lost all his high frequency hearing at rock concerts and doing cocaine. In contrast if I have two pair of speakers behind me and both in the coaming pockets I may want to boost just a bit of treble while underway. I see an infinite number of valuable uses for a true dual zone EQ like the Wetsounds.

As for the specs, the original Exile EQ had one stereo chip that was split via a fader between the in-boat and tower zones. The revised model has independent and discrete six channels of preouts just like the Wetsounds had from day one.

9 volts? It's just a spec. Times six outputs simultaneously? That's 54 volts. Test that with all channels driven. There probably isn't enough power supply in a little EQ chassis to back that up. Besides, there should be no reason you would ever need more than six times 5 honest volts.

[MLA]

No idea. I'm just reading the specs.

The only reason I'd be tempted to get a 420 is the mic. I could see that being useful for instructing beginners. Sometimes we use a bull horn. No joke. Other than that, I don't see the value in being able to tune each and every zone separately. Maybe you guys like to tinker at that level. I just think it's more tuning than I'd ever use. Even on the ZLD I just do my tuning at the amps and leave the treb, mid, and bass knobs in the middle, never to be touched again (i.e. pushed in on the ZLD).

Based on that expected usage, I would recommend to someone to go with a simple zone control/line driver for a fraction of the cost.

Having the ability to cut some treble or add some bass to your tower setup or to the in-boats without inducing those changed to the other zone, is easy to hear. With 6.5" in-boats and a sub thats tuned just right, I rarely make any changes, but do like to adjust the HLCDs depending on the music genre.

[IXFE]

Other than David and MLA, who is making ongoing and frequent EQ adjustments while out on the water? Be honest...

In practice, I never do. Maybe I'm missing or maybe I don't have the finely tuned ear that you audio snobs have.

[shawndoggy]

Other than David and MLA, who is making ongoing and frequent EQ adjustments while out on the water? Be honest...

In practice, I never do. Maybe I'm missing or maybe I don't have the finely tuned ear that you audio snobs have.

I agree that on the fly tuning is rare for me. . On my vride with bullet hollow points it was also nice to eq some of the heat out of the tower. So then I just had two separate set and forget eq settings for tower and cabin.

Haven't had that since I've had rev 10s since 2011 (with clarion eqs746 and zld), and don't think I've missed it because the revs aren't near as harsh as my old hollow points. I'm interested to see myself if I actually use the second eq on the revs.

I can say that the last two boats I was on with exile HLCD tower speakers, I was dying for a way to tame the tweeter a bit.

[David]

Okay. I'll drop the line of reasoning of "Why did you buy an EQ if you have no use for one."

Let me state it a different way. Maybe not for your benefit since you already have a fixed opinion but for other readers.

Just personally, with any EQ, I really don't do much experimenting with the EQ on the fly. Once I fully profile the system and get it down I know exactly what amount of EQ I am going to use and under what certain conditions. So it is not a real conscious effort once I am familiar with my own system. For example....

Different speakers in different locations makes every system a bit different and a little equalization is helpful in the initial set up to get just the spectral balance that I prefer.

Different speeds. If it sounds right to me at rest then I'm probably not as satisfied when on plane with the wind, speed and engine noise.

I don't play sound engineer and change equalization from music selection to music selection. I just want to make a few changes with a change in environment.

[MLA]

Other than David and MLA, who is making ongoing and frequent EQ adjustments while out on the water? Be honest...

In practice, I never do. Maybe I'm missing or maybe I don't have the finely tuned ear that you audio snobs have.

With independent EQ adjustments, why would it be ongoing? I tune my towers with no effect to the in-boats, so not need to retune in order to return the in-boats to what they were, see!

[David]

Something else a little off topic but that I think is interesting relating to equalization and signal processing.

Some factory systems in cars automatically modify the compression and bandwidth at different driving speeds. They also have different time domain settings for a varying number of occupants.

Some aftermarket systems equalize each channel/speaker individually, and compensate for the time domain with each speaker relative to the listener. They also compensate for the amplitude of each individual speaker relative to the listener.

I have this type of processing in varying degrees in all three of my vehicles. I cannot ever imagine having another vehicle without it. It makes that much difference in the way I enjoy music.

Several marine audio specialists have been using DSP units in boats for a while with impressive results on the larger systems.

It may be five years or it may be ten years but you are going to see this level of sophistication becoming commonplace. And it will spill into boats as well. After the initial set up you will do absolutely nothing, unless you choose to. All these processes will take place automatically.

[Fman]

David, can you explain why a 9volt line driver does nothing more than a 5volt? Are the 4 extra volts a complete waste?

[Fman]

Other than David and MLA, who is making ongoing and frequent EQ adjustments while out on the water? Be honest...

In practice, I never do. Maybe I'm missing or maybe I don't have the finely tuned ear that you audio snobs have.

Same here, I never used the dual controller on my last WS 420 SQ. I can only see it really being a benefit if you play your inboat speakers at the same level as the tower speakers. With 8 speakers in the cabin and bow I cant see how anyone can take that punishment on there ears all day without a whopping headache or hearing loss. My main reason for an EQ is to have zone control so I can mute down the inboat speakers with the sub and towers cranking. Most of the time I left the eq pretty flat, a little tuen down on highs and a little more bass is usually what we left it at.

Do you know much about the subwoofer frequency adjustment on the ZLD? I have no idea what that will do.

[soonerbilly]

I'm far from an audiophile but with songs being pulled from so many sources its difficult to keep them all at the same LEVEL. I find myself adjusting the highs OFTEN esp on the towers. ( i have the harsh krypt's though ) Im in the process of getting some REV 10's so hopefully itll be a little more set it and forget it.

[MLA]

Do you know much about the subwoofer frequency adjustment on the ZLD? I have no idea what that will do.

Its redundant and left over from years back when amps didnt have internal cross-overs. Makes for an interesting tune when the amp and EQ are trying to do the same thing. Same with the sub phase. A higher end sub amp will have this and it gets set there. Neither needs to be set on the fly, and just take up space on the face and PCB.

The main reason for an EQ is for EQ'ing. The main reason for zone control is volume control. These can be had together as well as separately.

[shawndoggy]

Its redundant and left over from years back when amps didnt have internal cross-overs. Makes for an interesting tune when the amp and EQ are trying to do the same thing. Same with the sub phase. A higher end sub amp will have this and it gets set there. Neither needs to be set on the fly, and just take up space on the face and PCB.

The main reason for an EQ is for EQ'ing. The main reason for zone control is volume control. These can be had together as well as separately.

I know you and David both say that about adjusting the sub xover point, but that's something I used on my ZLD a lot. With some music I wanted a more prominent sub both in level and in range (rap/pop) and so I'd set the xover a little higher, and on other music I want the sub to come in lower and blend more (rock), so I'd set the level lower and xover lower. All the time, there was also a threshold xover set on the amp (on the higher side, obviously).

Like the hanker for a hunk of cheese guy said, don't knock it till you try it.