CorianGate mod

[MarkJames]

I didn't know what to call this. The mod is inspired by Martin Archer and Mica's beautiful DIY surfgates.

I got all my parts together earlier this week. I ordered Martin's controller rather than build my own. I did this part for expediency (summer is running out here on the left coast of Canada) and partly because he likely did a better job than I would. It ended up costing me more than I was originally prepared to spend but I saved money on other materials along the way and figure it brought my 2010 VLX up to the specs of a 2014. In many ways I think Martin's controller makes this mod superior to the factory Malibu surfgate.

Anyways.. here goes.

My boat's a 2010 VLX - standard swim platform so it's considerably wider than the newer ones with the surfgate that retracts into it. I had been told by some that I would have to mod my swim platform - and I haven't had it in the water yet to check if it matters - but others have told me it's no problem. Mica is running the same boat as me with essentially the same mod and he's had no troubles so I'm going with that.

I had to order a whack of stuff so in preparation I made a switch console for Martin's controller. Here's a picture of it. I opted to go with port and starboard momentary contact switches instead of the 3 position toggle that he recommended. Not for any reason but that I had the switches kicking around. The green button will trigger surf left, the red surf right, and the switch puts the system in GPS speed control mode vs manual override.

It will become obvious later why it's the shape that it is.

Edited August 16, 2014 by MarkJames

[MarkJames]

Next was designing the gates. I used the dimensions that seemed most common - 12" high by 22" long. I cut them on a CNC so that I would be able to change the shape later but not lose the accurate positioning of the hinge holes.

The hinge holes are the key to this - the knuckles have to be in a straight line and the leaves have to be parallel. CNC made that easy. I made an MDF template to see how it looked and when I tried it on I found that it stuck up too high at the back and looked funny so I modified the design and recut it. Here's the MDF pattern

[MarkJames]

Here's the back of the boat before starting....

and here's a pic of how I kept the bottom of the tab flush with the bottom of the boat - I just slide a 1x6 under the chine and blocked it up with some cardboard. I could then rest the tab on the 1x6

[MarkJames]

Originally I had planned on using Lexan to make my gates - like Mica did. But milling Lexan on a CNC without specialty bits is a real nightmare. It melts and fuzzes something fierce. Plus 1/2" lexan is pricey. Then I thought I'd use UHMW but the black is kinda blech looking and you can't mill or polish it easily and the white cutting board material wouldn't have gone with the boat.

So... I looked at marine plywood and painting it but that seemed like it would turn into a maintenance thing.

FInally I came up with the idea of using Corian. A buddy of mine is a fabricator and he traded me some offcuts for some brewskis. What a great trade! Corian mills just like wood and is stiffer than Lexan or UHMW.

I opted to use 4" stainless hinges. They were a little pricey at $24 a pair - but I couldn't find piano hinge in stainless or aluminum. I wanted to use tall hinges so that they would act to block any water flow between the tab and the corner of the hull.

Once the tabs were milled and the hinges added it was all mounted to the boat and looked like this

In this image with the swim platform off you can see that the back side of the corian is unpolished. I could have polished it but that seemed like too much work.

More tomorrow... I've been at this all day and I'm wiped.

Tomorrow the electrics go in and it should all work. By later afternoon I should be back in the water! I can hardly wait!

[Stevo]

Nice work, can't wait to see that wave

[mica]

Look really nice, corian is a great idea! Like it! It's lot of work to have everything done correctly but when that will be finish that will be only pure happiness!!! Congrats

Edited August 16, 2014 by mica

[dlb]

Looks great! Bring on the wave!

[justgary]

Excellent work, and it looks great.

I'm sure it will work great too, but I have to wonder why you mounted the actuator so close to the hinge? When the gate opens, the angle gets even smaller, so the motor spends most of its force trying to rip the hinges out of the boat and almost no force pushing the gate to the side. It seems like you could move the base away from the hinge and get better throw and more force with a smaller motor.

[MarkJames]

I'm sure it will work great too, but I have to wonder why you mounted the actuator so close to the hinge? When the gate opens, the angle gets even smaller, so the motor spends most of its force trying to rip the hinges out of the boat and almost no force pushing the gate to the side. It seems like you could move the base away from the hinge and get better throw and more force with a smaller motor.

That's a good point and one that I should have put more thought into. I couldn't quite wrap my head around the positioning of the actuator. The gate swings along the line of the hinges and so I reasoned that the actuator would have to be positioned such that it could pivot along a perpendicular to that line. I don't know that my reasoning was absolutely right but it 'felt' right.

The next thing I reasoned was that the farther back I positioned the actuator on the tab itself the more resistance to leverage the tab would have when deployed.

Then lastly I had to keep the actuator clear of the swim platform mount.

So - I played with it a bit and quickly found that the angle the tab made with the hull required the tab end of the actuator to be mounted quite low on the tab - otherwise the transom end of the actuator wound up really high - getting in the way of the platform.

So... I arbitrarily put the center point of the tab end 2" forward of the back and 2" up from the bottom and mounted it there with just the center screw - then double stick taped it to where it reached on the transom when it was fully retracted. That's where it ended up.

Here' a picture I shot from below and behind with the platform in place so you can see what's going on. I really didn't have the option to mount it a whole lot differently. As the tab end moves forward the transom end moves inwards but it also moves upwards a bit and would ultimately bang into the platform.

Hopefully this isn't a problem - but I do see your point.

mark

Post office should be open - and I have a pickup tag for Martin's control box - gonna head over and get some more done.

Edited August 16, 2014 by MarkJames

[justgary]

It will probably work out fine as long as you limit the throw. If you notice stress on the hinges you may need to move the actuator (especially if you still want more throw). Moving the base up to the corner of the platform and its bracket would be your best case for getting the force in the direction you want it.

Show us pictures of Martin's controller when you get it. Oh, and I really like your button panel. Nice touch.

[MarkJames]

Ok... another day and lots done.

justgary got me nervous about the pressure on the hinges so I made up some supporting brackets for inside the transom. They're 1/8" aluminum as one piece for all the hinge holes. This is what they look like

I removed the hinge screws (which required uncoupling the actuators and replaced/resealed them with these as backing. It looks like this from the inside - complete with messy sikaflex all over the damned place. I'm no engineer but I figure those hinges aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They'd have to rip out a 3" x 12" chunk of the transom to pull loose.

[MarkJames]

Martin Archer's gear arrived today. Heavy freakin' box full of stuff. In it came:

Control box with the 328 based controller and 4 relays. This had two hardwired cables - one cable to connect to power, ground, and switched power and the other to run to the actuators at the stern.

Remote control in a waterproof ipod armband

GPS puck for remote mounting

Display box (not shown - I'll try to remember to do that tomorrow but you can see it from a distance in the picture of my switch mounted)

Wiring harness to connect to the user supplied switches (not shown - just a wire with a connector on one end and 5 tinned leads on the other)

Here's what it looks like

And here's how it looks from behind with the connectors showing.

I mounted it up by the toe kick of the driver's side. This was the most convenient place to get access to switched power.

And here you can see my switchbox mounted and why it was the shape it was. It sits by the subwoofer control mounted to the dash within easy reach

Edited August 17, 2014 by MarkJames

[MarkJames]

So I'm pretty happy with the gear Martin provided me. If I could offer up a few suggestions (if you're reading this thread, Martin) I would suggest

1 - lengthen the cable to the switch harness. I wanted to put your control box on the port side in where the stereo lives but I have a bowrider so I have to run the cable from there around the bow compartment by the bow water tank and across to the drivers seat. The wire needed to be 3 or 4 feet longer to do this. Instead of extending the wire I moved it all to the drivers' side

2 - Get stuff laser engraved instead of CNC drag engraved - especially the plexi - laser engraving looks way nicer. I could have lived without the engraving on the GPS puck too.

3 - Write the wire colors next to the wires in the instructions. I printed them and took them out to the boat to work. The printing was all black and white so I didn't know what was what.

That's about it. - the box had some neat mounting hardware with it and it fastened easily.

I didn't mount the display. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with that - if anything. I may just leave it floating around for now and come up with something down the road. It's functional but it ain't pretty so I don't want it mounted next to my Maliview display (how snooty of me, huh?)

Edited August 17, 2014 by MarkJames

[MarkJames]

So here's a view of the gates extending and retracting from the stern. I'm standing back there using the remote control.

First I hit surf right - that extends the left gate

Then I hit surf left - that retracts the left and extends the right

Then surf right - that retracts the right and extends the left

Finally surf right again to retract the left and turn surf off

The boat is all cleaned up and back in the water. I did a test run and it seems to be working great. It was a bit dark today so I'll get some good video tomorrow and post it.

All in all this took maybe 20 hours to complete. A good part of that was prototyping the tabs and machining the parts. Total cost was about $1500. I figure I'll get many more years out of my boat - it only has a few hundred hours on it - and now it's as up to date as a 2014 model straight off the assembly line. I'm a happy camper! Thanks very much to Martin and Mica who both offered very valuable assistance - I wouldn't have even tried to do this without you guys.

Mark

Edited August 17, 2014 by MarkJames

[teamerickson]

Incredible work. Very nice.

It seems like the gates push out quite a bit. Maybe it's just me. Anyway, great job.

[MarkJames]

Incredible work. Very nice.

It seems like the gates push out quite a bit. Maybe it's just me. Anyway, great job.

It's not just you - they push out too far I think.

Martin's software is configurable for actuator extension. I haven't gotten that far yet. You're seeing it literally minutes after I finished vacuum cleaning it and putting all the insides back.

Tomorrow will be the configure and play with day!

[MarkJames]

It will probably work out fine as long as you limit the throw. If you notice stress on the hinges you may need to move the actuator (especially if you still want more throw). Moving the base up to the corner of the platform and its bracket would be your best case for getting the force in the direction you want it

I was looking at the stock surfate - you can see it in this pic below. There's a couple of things that are apparent from this photo compared to mine above.

First - the stock tab is considerably shorter than what I've done - probably 4" or so. That stands to reason as I read from previous posts that the stock tab is 18" long and mine is 22" long.

Second - Malibu has the tab end of the actuator all the way at the extreme end of the tab. That makes sense to me as far as leverage goes and minimizing deflection in the gate.

Finally - and most reassuring to me - is that the transom end of their actuator is almost the same as mine - the angle of the photo is different but if you compare the 2-screw side of the 3-screw triangular actuator base you can see that Malibu's and mine are within an inch to inch and a half of each other. There's is closer to the middle of the transom but still way clear of the swim platform mount.

I'm sure it'll be fine - but you do have me worried

[justgary]

You should be fine.

Sorry for the scare, but I designed and built a grapple for my tractor once, and even though I calculated the total closing force at the grapple tip, I didn't account for the hinge and lever on the actuator side (I later calculated it at over 16,000 pounds force).

I finished the job and told my son to pick up a log while I watched. I was actually shocked as I watched it tear two pieces of 1/4" steel in two. It was impressive. Those pieces are now braced with 1/2" x 1" bar.

Now I'm just a little more aware than I used to be.

Nice install!

[Tao of Wake]

It seems like you could move the base away from the hinge and get better throw and more force with a smaller motor.

That's actually backwards. The closer the actuator mount point is to the hinge, the greater the throw. It took me awhile to figure this out and had to remember my trigonometry. Take a look at the diagram below. I calculated the throw distance (D) based on 5 inches and 6 inches for the distance between the hinge and actuator mount points, and the throw is greater at 5 inches than 6 inches. To calculate D, you have to first calculate A (use the Pythagorean theorem), then B (the angle) then subtract B from 180 to get C. Once you have this, you can calculate D by using angle C and side A. I used an online calculator to do this.

At 5 inches, D is 5.26 inches

At 6 inches, D is 3.87 inches

I do agree that if you decrease the distance between the mount points too much, it will be pushing the end of the gate away from the hinge, but it would have to be VERY close. I'm sure it could be calculated what the minimum distance would be.

[MarkJames]

That's actually backwards. The closer the actuator mount point is to the hinge, the greater the throw. It took me awhile to figure this out and had to remember my trigonometry. Take a look at the diagram below. I calculated the throw distance (D) based on 5 inches and 6 inches for the distance between the hinge and actuator mount points, and the throw is greater at 5 inches than 6 inches. To calculate D, you have to first calculate A (use the Pythagorean theorem), then B (the angle) then subtract B from 180 to get C. Once you have this, you can calculate D by using angle C and side A. I used an online calculator to do this.

At 5 inches, D is 5.26 inches

At 6 inches, D is 3.87 inches

I do agree that if you decrease the distance between the mount points too much, it will be pushing the end of the gate away from the hinge, but it would have to be VERY close. I'm sure it could be calculated what the minimum distance would be.

Nice drawings and good info.

The only thing I'd point out is that I think your math only works if you move the transom end of the actuator away from the hinge while leaving the tab end in the same location. If you move the transom end away from the hinge but the tab end closer to the hinge then you can maintain the same throw or even increase it.

Today is tuning day - gonna figure out the right extension amount for the tabs. I had them fully extended yesterday and it seemed to work really well. I gotta say that the steering goes for a serious dump while the tab is extended - I'm awfully glad for the auto-retraction feature. These tabs stick out much further than my ghetto prototype. The ghetto version messed with the steering but not to this extent by any measure. With these 22" tabs extended to about 30 degrees I have to actually turn against the tab the whole time to keep the boat going straight. it reminds me of driving at speed with an outboard motor trimmed too low.

Mark

[Fman]

Well done, impressive to say the least. You guys should just sell this as a retro kit for older BU's...

[MarkJames]

Ok - didn't have a spotter today - kids are both away - but I got some video to show the effects of the C-gate (my wife thought C-gate sounded better than corian-gate - I think she's right)

So my boat is a VLX with the Malibu Launch system. In addition I have two 750lb bags - one in each of the rear corners that say not to put more than 75lbs in them.

I've shot 4 videos and I think it's pretty magical how the wake just switches from side to side.

The first is all MLS tanks full, both 750lb bags full, wedge down - 10.8mph.

Next is all MLS tanks full, both 750lb bags full, wedge down, 11.4mph - I think this is better than the 10.8

Then all MLS tanks full, both 750lb bags empty, wedge down, 10.8 and 11.4mph

Finally all MLS tanks full, both 750lb bags empty, wedge down, 10.8 and 11.4mph - I was surprised how good this is for just the wedge

With all the tanks full it seems like the extra speed makes a pretty big difference in cleaning it up.

I'll try and get some surf videos posted as those tell a better tale.

That concludes my build thread. Thanks to everyone who helped!

Mark

Edited August 18, 2014 by MarkJames

[BigJbird]

Awesome build! Congrats! This is the type of mod I've been looking for. Been wanting to try surfing, and a quality wake seems to be a distinct advantage!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[mica]

Awesome job!

I think you need some weight in bow to help to clean and length the wave. With my boat when I do not put any bag in the bow (except the factory thank) I do not fill all the way up the two 750's bag at the rear but I will fill them up only 1/3 of the capacity.

Also try some test with the gate not all the way extended. On my boat it did not change the wave (Push and shape) and it help a lot for driving. You need less force to keep the boat straight running.

One more time great job

Mica

[MarkJames]

I think you need some weight in bow to help to clean and length the wave. With my boat when I do not put any bag in the bow (except the factory thank) I do not fill all the way up the two 750's bag at the rear but I will fill them up only 1/3 of the capacity.

Also try some test with the gate not all the way extended. On my boat it did not change the wave (Push and shape) and it help a lot for driving. You need less force to keep the boat straight running.

I have a 250lb fat sac I could try putting up front - I'll see what that does.

Did you try listing the boat at the same time? I was gonna try that today and see what effect that has.

mark