PCM Motors in 2015?

[Tims]

Is it possible that the move to MP LS3 this year was part of Malibu's master plan... i.e. they knew they'd be moving to PCM in 2015 and that there was no LS3 in that lineup.

So maybe the 2015 engine lineup becomes:

• PCM HO303 - Base engine for Axis and V-Ride
• PCM EX343 - Base engine for Wakesetter VTX, VLX, 23 LSV, 20 MXZ, and 22 MXZ (upgrade for Axis and V-Ride)
• PCM ZR409 - Base engine for Wakesetter 247 LSV and 24 MXZ (upgrade for everybody else)
• MP LS3 - Upgrade
• PCM XS550 - Upgrade

Hard to imagine the HO303 as the base motor for Axis and V-Ride (what the 330 is today), but what else would Malibu use from PCM's lineup? I suppose they could just make the EX343 the base motor, but that would eliminate some profits as many Axis owners upgrade the engine.

Just spitballin' here...

Assuming that PCM will stick with GM, then the GEN1 SBC goes away and the new base motor will be the 409 since the plant in Mexico that produces the 5.7 will cease to do so. That will probably be a gradual transition as I am sure that there will be a big inventory of the GEN1 engines to work down.

[Tims]

All the GEN-I SBC's in these boats are iron block/aluminum heads as well with raw water cooling.

What?? Pretty sure the heads on my monsoon equipped VLX were iron.

http://gmpowertrain.com/pdfpage.aspx#M_57LV8_specs

[Nitrousbird]

What?? Pretty sure the heads on my monsoon equipped VLX were iron.

http://gmpowertrain.com/pdfpage.aspx#M_57LV8_specs

WOW, I was giving the old Monsoon more credit than it was due.

That said, the Hammerhead 383 was raw water cooled and had the GM Fastburn Aluminum heads with an iron block. I'm guessing the Hammerhead 350ci was also running aluminum heads as well (probably the same heads - not a lot of info out there on that motor).

[DatTexasBoy]

Yes I think the new base motor will be the 343.

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[IXFE]

My dealer said he believed PCM is for Response series only. But he wasn't 100% sure.

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[Sethro]

I'm a fan of the 9 degree down angle of the PCM Power Plus transmission allowing the engine to sit level in the boat...and the 1.23:1 gear reduction.

[TenTwentyOne]

^^^ I assume this means the ZR 450 doesn't produce the torque of the LS3? That might changes my opinion.

I believe the ZR450 runs at a slightly lower RPM range than the LS3. That would mean, that, as long as both engines are actually 450hp, the ZR450 would have more peak torque than the LS3. The only way that the engine could have less torque, is if they ran it at higher RPMs to achieve the higher HP rating.

[Tims]

I believe the ZR450 runs at a slightly lower RPM range than the LS3. That would mean, that, as long as both engines are actually 450hp, the ZR450 would have more peak torque than the LS3. The only way that the engine could have less torque, is if they ran it at higher RPMs to achieve the higher HP rating.

If you look at GM marine page, the peak torque as well as the entire curve is quite a bit lower on the 6.0 when compared to the LS3. If PCM is "tuning" the engine for better peak HP without doing any extensive motor modifications, I would think that peak torque would occur at a higher RPM.

[TenTwentyOne]

^ The peak torque may come in at a higher RPM. But it would be a little unlikely. We wouldn't know without a dyno. My point was, if they aren't running the ZR450 at higher RPMs than the peak hp rpm of the LS3(which I'm pretty sure they aren't), that would mean that it has more peak torque than the LS3.

[Tims]

^ The peak torque may come in at a higher RPM. But it would be a little unlikely. We wouldn't know without a dyno. My point was, if they aren't running the ZR450 at higher RPMs than the peak hp rpm of the LS3(which I'm pretty sure they aren't), that would mean that it has more peak torque than the LS3.

In the case of these 2 motors, I put my money on displacement.

[TenTwentyOne]

I'm not saying that you would be wrong to do so. I'm just saying that based on the criteria i stated above. (That the ZR450 is making it's total peak power, below the rpm that the 6.2l does, and that they both actually make 450hp), that it therefore has to have more peak torque than the LS3.

The LS3 is more likely to have a longer and flatter torque curve, which is a good thing. I was only addressing peak numbers.

[JoeA]

So does PCM post HP and torque numbers somewhere? I did not see it on the website anywhere but there's a lot of resourceful people on this forum.

[nyryan2001]

No, for some reason they don't and you won't find them anywhere

[UofM_MXZ]

I will say this...my 343 pcm engine feels as strong for stronger than my 410 indmar. I had 6 people and pro ballast and surfed with zero issue.

[shawndoggy]

I will say this...my 343 pcm engine feels as strong for stronger than my 410 indmar. I had 6 people and pro ballast and surfed with zero issue.

They call that the power of wishful thinking. The emperor loved his new clothes and the mastercraft ilmor guys think their 5.7L motors have 60 horses more than indmar and PCM.

[Tims]

^^^^^Not having to drag a wedge around makes a big difference in seat of the pants feel when surfing and wake boarding.

[UofM_MXZ]

They call that the power of wishful thinking. The emperor loved his new clothes and the mastercraft ilmor guys think their 5.7L motors have 60 horses more than indmar and PCM.

I would disagree. I had a 350 in the vlx I had. It feels different. If you don't think hull design matters at I would disagree.

[shawndoggy]

I've had 'em both too.

If you don't think hull design matters at I would disagree.

What does this riddle mean and what does hull design have to do with your engine's raw water pump?

[UofM_MXZ]

It has to do with drag and design....if you don't think the wedge makes a difference either....there is no way it doesn't. I am not saying the 343 is a 550 but I am saying with no wedge to drag and a different hull the 343 feels the same as the 22 mxz....why would you imagine the biggest dealers of nautique would order their 230's with a 343 and the mxz is pretty standard with the 410 or better. There is a difference. I have driven and surfed both.

Edited June 20, 2014 by UofM_MXZ

[shawndoggy]

the same reason so many dealers ordered the 23 lsv with the indmar 350. Price!

There is no magic here. Engine internals are the same. Intake, exhaust, and tune are your variables.

I'm not saying the ex343 can't git 'er done. I have one in my boat, which is a 2011. The following year, MB switched to indmar. I've had the pleasure of surfing in the slamed-est boat you've ever seen, and the exact same hull as mine, running the indmar 350. Guess what? No difference.

[UofM_MXZ]

It isn't just price. It is because as you said....it does the job. There is zero need for more engine with pro ballast...2100 lbs of ballast plus 1k lbs of people and it feels great. I just don't understand getting a bigger engine if it is not needed. It felt needed in the mxz and it didn't in the 230. That is just what I felt...obviously not everyone's opinion.

[shawndoggy]

It isn't just price. It is because as you said....it does the job. There is zero need for more engine with pro ballast...2100 lbs of ballast plus 1k lbs of people and it feels great. I just don't understand getting a bigger engine if it is not needed. It felt needed in the mxz and it didn't in the 230. That is just what I felt...obviously not everyone's opinion.

add 2k of people instead of 1k, and another 3k' in elevation. Our boats are very similar (claimed) weights. You will easily find your engine's limits under those circumstances (right about where the indmar motor in the same hull reaches its limits).

Edited June 20, 2014 by shawndoggy

[Tims]

UofM how about a write up and pictures of the wave on your new ride?

Edited June 20, 2014 by Tims

[UofM_MXZ]

add 2k of people instead of 1k, and another 3k' in elevation. Our boats are very similar (claimed) weights. You will easily find your engine's limits under those circumstances (right about where the indmar motor in the same hull reaches its limits).

I don't disagree with you there. I live at sea level. Most likely always will. For my needs the 343 does a great job

[UofM_MXZ]

UofM how about a write up and pictures of the wave on your new ride?

I will shortly. I just surfed it last week for the 1st and 2nd time. I am trying to get everything dialed in right now. Mather surf wake is great. If the the best it is really close to the best I have ever surfed. I with just the stock ballast. I am trying to get some more time in the boat to give a full write up. Again I want to stress how much I love malibu boats....I love them. Just weren't in the cards for me right now.