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vlong

House Loads and Engine Loads (Yes yet another dual battery ?)

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vlong

I have an 05 LSV with 1 battery. I listen to music for extended periods of time so I want to add another battery. Here is what I was planning.

*Adding the Blue Sea add a battery (Switch and ACR) and an Interstate SRM29.

*Leaving the existing #2awg to the starter on the existing "engine" battery (through the Blue Sea switch) on side 2.

*Feeding side 1 of the switch with the new battery and to a distribution block (3"away) where I will terminate a #4 to a fuse block for my 3 amps and also the existing #2awg that runs from the observers storage to the helm buss. Basically have the helm bus (which powers the HU along with other loads) and my 3 amplifiers on the "House" battery.

Should I be concerned about system separation here (although they will be grounded together)? I am assuming that the cable going back to the engine powers all items needed to run the engine (i.e. EMC, relays, safety switches, fuel pump, etc.).

Would this be the case on my 2005 LSV23 or is there something in the dash (helm buss) that the engine needs to run? Will the ignition still work correctly, etc.?

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Nitrousbird

I would upgrade that 2AWG to 2/0.

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vlong

I would upgrade that 2AWG to 2/0.

Which one? I was thinking of making the one from the battery (through the switch) to the helm buss and the amps distribution block (18" away from battery) a #1 since it's good for 120 amps ( that's all the switch is good for) and I don't think the amps will pull over 120amps continuous load. It wouldn't hurt me to upgrade that though? Is there something else I'm not thinking of?

Also thought about running amps straight off of battery ( not through the switch) but not sure what that would do as far as switch operation.

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shawndoggy

LOL, don't make me post my diagram!

To the OP, I wouldn't split up the helm bus and the starter. The run to the engine just goes to the starter and alternator (and ecm, I think). I don't know for sure but I suspect that your boat might start doing weird stuff if one battery is powering the gauges and another the ecm, especially if you draw the stereo battery down really far and the blue sea relay keeps the two batteries disconnected.

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shawndoggy

Also thought about running amps straight off of battery ( not through the switch) but not sure what that would do as far as switch operation.

As long as the amps can't turn on without the switch in the on position (i.e. the remote turn on lead requires the switch to be turned), hooking amps straight to the battery should work fine. It has for me anyway.

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vlong

So if I put the helm buss on with the starter that means my HU would be on with the helm (it is wired that way) and not on the "house battery" with my amps. If I run a hot wire over to the stereo (HU) to power it how does the ignition key power the units on? Would I then need to do something different with the ignition key so the "power on signal" comes from the same battery as well? Would I then need to install a switch for the stereo system and let the blue wire from the head unit turn the amps on? Now we get into lights, etc. on the helm buss that you would also run sitting for hours that may also run down the "start" battery.

Wow, this is getting complicated or is it just me?

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shawndoggy

So what I would do is:

1. Run hot power from the stereo battery to your HU's YELLOW (constant) wire.

2. Run ground from the stereo battery to your HU's BLACK (ground) wire.

3. The RED wire on your HU is just a signal wire that turns it on and off. You can leave that one wired as-is from your ignition, or wire it to a switch on the dash so it doesn't turn your stereo off and reset it every time you turn the engine off to pick up a downed rider.

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David

Let me say that I treat an ACR and dual circuit switch scheme entirely different than a conventional dual battery switch only scheme.

Once moving the stereo components/amplifiers to the house bank direct I prefer to move everything related to stereo on the house bank and that includes the dash switch that supplies the HU ignition/accessory lead. At that point I would move this circuit off the key and to a dash switch only that is supplied by the house battery. So everything stereo related would be independent of the helm buss.

This applies to older boats before the audio system is integrated with an active screen.

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vlong

Let me say that I treat an ACR and dual circuit switch scheme entirely different than a conventional dual battery switch only scheme.

Once moving the stereo components/amplifiers to the house bank direct I prefer to move everything related to stereo on the house bank and that includes the dash switch that supplies the HU ignition/accessory lead. At that point I would move this circuit off the key and to a dash switch only that is supplied by the house battery. So everything stereo related would be independent of the helm buss.

This applies to older boats before the audio system is integrated with an active screen.

There is really no other way to do it. You can't use the ignition switch accessory wire anymore because that also runs the gauges, alarms, etc.. That would put the head unit power coming from 2 different batteries which is asking for trouble.

Now I need to decide if this is all worth it or would a standard switch and 2 battery set up be better for me. If I did this it would only make sense to to move the anchor light and interior lights to the house battery also since these are used in conjunction with the stereo when anchored at night. Blue Sea add a battery will arrive Thursday.

Thanks to all for input...

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shawndoggy

There is really no other way to do it. You can't use the ignition switch accessory wire anymore because that also runs the gauges, alarms, etc.. That would put the head unit power coming from 2 different batteries which is asking for trouble.

Now I need to decide if this is all worth it or would a standard switch and 2 battery set up be better for me. If I did this it would only make sense to to move the anchor light and interior lights to the house battery also since these are used in conjunction with the stereo when anchored at night. Blue Sea add a battery will arrive Thursday.

Thanks to all for input...

I've never heard of someone worried about the draw of anchor/interior lights.

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formulaben

I'm worried about the draw of anchor/interior lights.

:biggrin:

Edited by formulaben

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shawndoggy

there are two of you!

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Nitrousbird

Let me say that I treat an ACR and dual circuit switch scheme entirely different than a conventional dual battery switch only scheme.

Once moving the stereo components/amplifiers to the house bank direct I prefer to move everything related to stereo on the house bank and that includes the dash switch that supplies the HU ignition/accessory lead. At that point I would move this circuit off the key and to a dash switch only that is supplied by the house battery. So everything stereo related would be independent of the helm buss.

This applies to older boats before the audio system is integrated with an active screen.

Exactly how mine is wired. Stereo has no power whatsoever from the house battery.

As for the anchor/interior - convert them over to LED then the draw will be so insignificant you won't need to worry about it.

Edited by Nitrousbird

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vlong

I've never heard of someone worried about the draw of anchor/interior lights.

I've never heard of someone worried about the draw of anchor/interior lights.

LOL, I would be afraid that if you sat for 5 or six hours with the interior lights, anchor lights and everyone's cell phone charging it would pull down the smaller cranking battery and the house battery would be drained from the stereo. At this point my drunk patrons would be out of beer.Then what? Now we got real problems! LOL..We'll at least there would be cell phones on the boat, good and charged for calling for help.

Seriously though, I would be concerned although not likely, it is possible.

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vlong

Exactly how mine is wired. Stereo has no power whatsoever from the house battery.As for the anchor/interior - convert them over to LED then the draw will be so insignificant you won't need to worry about it.

I think he is saying the exact opposite. All stereo equipment is on the house battery and helm buss and engine are on the cranking/engine battery.

Edit; I was thinking of a "house" battery and a "engine/start" battery. I see know I am referencing it different than you guys. I should be referencing a "house" battery and a "stereo" battery. I think we are on the same page.

Thanks for the input...

Edited by vlong

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David

vlong,

Not sure how you are misunderstanding. Pretty simple. Use a dedicated dash switch to turn on/off the HU red ignition lead. The dash switch would serve no other function. The dash switch would obtain power from the same battery that supplies the amplifiers and ALL audio components. The complete audio circuit and dedicated battery bank would be totally isolated from the helm buss, factory key operation, and starting circuit until you 'combined' the Blue Sea dual circuit battery switch....which you would rarely have cause to if ever.

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vlong

I understand, what makes you think I don't? See my post under yours 8 posts up. I actually agree with you, house battery with everything to do with a stereo, including switching on that battery, I see no other way to do it. Nitrous stated "stereo has no power whatsoever from the house battery", I think he meant engine battery, correct?

Ok, I'm leaving what I just typed but I think I see the problem. My reference to the "house" battery. I should be stating what it is, "stereo" battery. I'm assuming that's where the wheels fell off.

Or am I totally missing the boat. I think part of the problem is I'm a master electrician!

Anyway, leaving the stereo on a different system than the amps is not an option for me. I will wire it like you are saying. It makes electrical sense to me.

LOL, Thanks for the help...

Edited by vlong

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David

Yes, the language lost me somewhere in this thread but I do believe that everyone is on the same page technically.

Also, on another note, you may notice that Shawndoggy's Add-A-Battery kit illustration is contrary to the Blue Sea instructions. His modification in reversing the switch/relay sequence relating to the batteries is correct and essential when it comes to dual bank shore charging in isolation.

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vlong

Saw that but had other issues so didn't say anything. What's the reasoning behind terminating the ACR on the load side (that's the only difference correct?). I would assume to keep the ACR from trying to connect the batteries when charging on shore power, or even on an on board charger? So that would mean that the switch would need to be in the off position while charging with shore power?

So I wonder if you used a single battery charger and left the ACR on the line side would it treat it like it would the alternator charge?

Edited by vlong

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shawndoggy

It would combine the batteries, yes.

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MLA

there are two of you!

make it 3 :biggrin:

If someone spends a great deal of time out after dark anchored, then the anchor load can be treated as other non engine/boat loads, and terminated to the house battery.

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shawndoggy

The change in the diagram is to disconnect the acr from the batteries when the switch is off. The directions show the acr wired right to the batteries. So if you did charge a battery with a shore charger, the acr would combine and you'd charge both as one big battery rather than each individually. Blue sea confirmed that it's ok to wire that way. You can do a kludgy solution with putting the neg lead to the acr on a relay triggered by the ignition, but that's making it more complicated than it needs to be IMHO.

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shawndoggy
make it 3 :biggrin:

If someone spends a great deal of time out after dark anchored, then the anchor load can be treated as other non engine/boat loads, and terminated to the house battery.

Hey mike you wire the amps to the switch with the add a battery, right? Just for giggles you should share your diagram with vlong... He'd understand it and it might be preferable for him?

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MLA

I understand, what makes you think I don't? See my post under yours 8 posts up. I actually agree with you, house battery with everything to do with a stereo, including switching on that battery, I see no other way to do it. Nitrous stated "stereo has no power whatsoever from the house battery", I think he meant engine battery, correct?

Ok, I'm leaving what I just typed but I think I see the problem. My reference to the "house" battery. I should be stating what it is, "stereo" battery. I'm assuming that's where the wheels fell off.

Or am I totally missing the boat. I think part of the problem is I'm a master electrician!

Anyway, leaving the stereo on a different system than the amps is not an option for me. I will wire it like you are saying. It makes electrical sense to me.

LOL, Thanks for the help...

Terminology here can make things confusing. IMO, a house load is anything that is not needed to make the boat go. This makes sense when the thinking is broadened to include boats other than tow boats. Boats that have head pumps, wash down pumps, live well pumps, A/C, fridges, heaters, salon lighting, etc. Non of these are required to make the boat go, but may want to be used while the boat is at anchor.

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