1999 Sunsetter VLX 4 Bag Integrated Ballast Install

[aggie08]

Well, I think I'm finished! Two 750's in back, a rear seat sac in the ski locker (~400-500 lbs), and the integrated sac up front (~300 lbs) running off four Johnson reversible pumps. Took it out yesterday, and everything works great! A couple leaks, but nothing some hose clamp tightening/repositioning couldn't easily fix. Everything fills or empties in 6 minutes or less. There's no vent lines or above water draining because I wanted to keep it clean, but I could be persuaded to add them (especially above water draining) in the future. I rarely ever run the bags 100% full and keep an eye on them as they fill anyway, so the vents aren't a huge concern thus far.

I decided to do shared inlets for the ski locker/bow and port/starboard pumps, so I only had to drill one thru-hull (a 1" for the two rear bags). The two front ballasts fill from the drain plug, which was a PITA because it was located right beneath the shaft...had to elbow it before I could install the ball valve. All 1" hose.

The bags only take 30 seconds to a minute max longer to fill when run together than on their own (this is true for both the 1" and 3/4" inlets), so the pumps still get plenty of water from the Wyes! And everything sucks vacuum dry.

I keep a Tsunami over-the-side pump onboard in case of pump/impeller failure, but also so I can, once in a blue moon, remove the bow bag from beneath the seats and put it on top for a ridiculous wake

I decided to mount the pumps beneath the seats rather than in the V-Drive to limit clutter and make it easier to do engine fluid changes. Plus, having the pumps separated makes it easier to differentiate which one is making what noise. I'll build at least one box to put over the ski locker and bow pumps (located beneath the middle port seat against the outboard hull) to protect them a little.

Relocated the batteries to the passenger compartment (barely fits with the sub box!), and ran 2/0 to the switch and ground. I moved the ground from the engine to a post I screwed in in the V-Drive compartment. Works great.

The only visible wiring is from the BUS I used to get power (4 gauge wire) to the ballast switches (12 gauge from the switches to the pumps), The only practical place to hide it was by the driver's left knee, but I didn't like the idea of running that much extra wire only to backtrack to the switches. So, instead, I mounted it behind a post behind the driver's seat that used to support the built-in table that comes with the '99 VLX. It's near where the cooler goes and everybody's crap gets tossed, so the wiring is barely noticeable.

Some pictures (and, in case you're wondering, the install is loosely based on the 2012 VLX Integrated Install thread...such a clean job!), let me know of any suggestions!:

Edited January 6, 2014 by aggie08

[REW]

Nice, I like seeing a clean install,

[FastFreddy]

FYI I used the ski locker drain to supply the pump for the front bag. However I do not run a ski locker bag. This way I kept the T-handle drain in the bilge to drain the water out.

Very clean install! nice job.

Edited January 5, 2014 by FastFreddy

[jhartt3]

Totally copying this system. Only change is to keep the pumps in the vdrive if I can. 6 minutes and one thru hull I can live with that.

[jhartt3]

Any way you can share your parts list?

Edited January 5, 2014 by jhartt3

[Mountainvelo]

Good looking install! I have a three pump system waiting to be installed in my '97 VLX this spring. This thread has me excited.

[aggie08]

FYI I used the ski locker drain to supply the pump for the front bag. However I do not run a ski locker bag. This way I kept the T-handle drain in the bilge to drain the water out.

Very clean install! nice job.

I'm 99% certain that my Sunsetter doesn't have a T-handle in the ski locker. At least not within reach. Where is yours? My ski locker just has a hole in the back, so everything drains along the bottom of the boat to the transom. Luckily, with the bow space restrictions, the bow bag fills and empties the quickest (at around 2.5 minutes each), so having a dedicated thru-hull wouldn't save me much. The cycle that takes the longest is actually emptying the ski locker bag (in just over 6 minutes) because it's the only bag where the pump is above it. It fills in 4 minutes though. Everything else fills and empties at the same rates.

[aggie08]

Any way you can share your parts list?

Sure thing. I'll just make a copy of my purchase order from wakemakers tomorrow at work. I did one big bulk order on black Friday. Everything else I got from Home Depot or West Marine.

[FastFreddy]

My T-handle in my 99 is right under the v-drive. Yours should be the same. In this picture you can see the hole near the driveshaft, that is where my T-plug goes in.

[aggie08]

Yeah, that's what I have my bow and center pump running off of. I meant I don't have a thru-hull drain in my ski locker like you do. It just drains towards the stern. So now all I have left is the transom plug for draining.

Edited January 6, 2014 by aggie08

[jhartt3]

awesome thanks aggie. Any advice or other info you could let me know before i dive into this next spring would be much appreciated

[Levi900RR]

Nice job man, I'll be doing a very similar install on my LSV, only real difference will be I am going to have a locker sac under my port seats for surfing as well. Going to use some directional valves to fill it.

[jhartt3]

i'm just going to throw a pump over for when we surf b/c its not very often. as i get older im sure it will become more frequent then i can put a Wye valve off of the starboard rear ballast bag

[aggie08]

Any way you can share your parts list?

Item SKU QTY

12 Gauge Crimp Butt Connector 34010 20

Pre-Wired Switch Connector for Johnson Reversible Ballast Pumps 34026 4

30 Amp ATO Blade Fuse 34020 6

Ballast Rocker Switch Mounting Panel - End 37007 2

Ballast Rocker Switch Body 34013 4

Ballast Rocker Switch Mounting Panel - Middle 37008 2

Ballast Switch Cover Upgrade Package 90256 1

Ballast Rocker Switch Cover - Right 37014 1

Ballast Rocker Switch Cover - Left 37015 1

Ballast Rocker Switch Cover - Front 37016 1

Ballast Rocker Switch Cover - Standard 37013 1

1" Ballast Hose Black 31001-100 50

Johnson Ultra Ballast Reversible Pump 23001 4

Fly High Pro X Series Fat Sac - Gray 11007-gry 2

Fly High Pro X Series Integrated Bow Sac - Grey 11011-gry 1

1-1/8" Hose Barb Wye Fitting 32007-118 2

3/4" Thread x 1" Hose Barb Fitting 32013 1

3/4" Nipple Fitting 35006 1

3/4" Bronze Ball Valve 35003-340 1

1" Thread x 1" Hose Barb Fitting 32014 1

1" Bronze Ball Valve 35003-100 1

1" Bronze Mushroom Thru-Hull Intake 35001-100 1

Flow Rite 1" / 1-1/8" Barbed Elbow Quick Release Connector W746 33046 4

Fly High 1" Flow Rite Quick Release Connect W743 33043 4

1" & 1-1/8" Stainless Steel Hose Clamp 31003-100_118 20

I ended up with about 10' of extra hose. Here's what I bought separately:

12 Gauge 2 Conductor Marine Pump Wire - ~80 ft

http://www.wakemakers.com/12-awg-2-cond-marine-ballast-pump-wire.html

3/4" Bronze Street Elbow

http://www.wakemakers.com/bronze-street-elbow.html

Fly High Pro X Series Center Locker/Rear Seat Sac

http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-rear-seat-sac.html

Blue Sea 6-Circuit Fuse Block with Ground Bus and Cover

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=17243&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50523&subdeptNum=50549&classNum=50554#.UsruhvSgnUU

The appropriate ring terminals for the bus you can buy anywhere.

~20' 4 gauge red

~20' 4 gauge black

If you're moving the batteries, you'll need about 22' of red 2/0 gauge for the batteries to the switch and 12' of black 2/0 for battery 1 to the engine ground or post and a 1 or 2 foot link from battery 1 to 2. This stuff is expensive, so definitely measure your exact distances first. According to most wire sizing charts, I probably would have been okay with 1 gauge or 1/0, but I got a good deal on the wire, so I decided to play it safe.

Edited January 6, 2014 by aggie08

[jhartt3]

so how did your wire routing and sizing go. My batteries are in the same location as yours i have already moved them.

4 guage from battery to Blue seas fuse block? then 12 guage to switches and pumps?

[aggie08]

awesome thanks aggie. Any advice or other info you could let me know before i dive into this next spring would be much appreciated

I definitely watched this video on drilling the thru-hull, and the magnet tip was much needed:

http://media.wakemakers.com/how-to-install-thru-hull-fittings-wakeboard-boat-hull/

The only other holes were drilled with a 1 1/4" drill bit. 5 total...1 on the starboard side of the V-drive compartment, 3 separate ones on the port side, 1 downward under the passenger seat into the ski locker. There's enough nooks and crannies for the hose to get through everywhere else.

Like I said, the T-handle was a PITA given its location directly below the shaft, but the bronze elbow allows it to work. I ended up having the cut off some of the handle on the 3/4" ball valve though.

[aggie08]

so how did your wire routing and sizing go. My batteries are in the same location as yours i have already moved them.

4 guage from battery to Blue seas fuse block? then 12 guage to switches and pumps?

4 gauge positive from the BUS to the battery switch. Negative from the BUS to the engine ground or post. 12 gauge from the BUS screws to the switches. 12 gauge from switches to the pumps.

Edited January 6, 2014 by aggie08

[aggie08]

Oh and definitely buy a heat gun Before I had one, I tried to fit the hose over the 1 1/8" fittings (the Wyes and the quick release elbows) using boiling water. It wasn't pretty.

[aggie08]

For anyone interested in possibly splitting an intake between two pumps, here are the fill and empty times running each pump individually, together with its paired pump, and all 4 together.

I only ran these tests once, so I wouldn't exactly call is scientific, but it's a baseline. I have no idea why the rear ballasts took longer to empty when all 4 pumps started emptying together than when just the rear pumps ran. The obvious answer is voltage loss, but they fill at the same rate with all 4 as they do paired, and the ski locker and bow empty and fill at identical rates running two pumps or 4. Got me.

Edited January 6, 2014 by aggie08

[aggie08]

Nice job man, I'll be doing a very similar install on my LSV, only real difference will be I am going to have a locker sac under my port seats for surfing as well. Going to use some directional valves to fill it.

I strongly considered that as well, but with the batteries in the passenger compartment, the bow sac, and the rear bags taking up the entire engine compartment, the port seats are the only storage I have left I often have a decent sized crew (6-8), so I need every inch.

I actually went surfing yesterday. Both sides were steep and clean but definitely need some fine tuning. Previously, I ran a 400 in the back surf side, a 400 on top of the surf side seats, and the ski locker full. With the added weight in the back corner, the wave definitely looked bigger, but it also gave it a tricky, steep ridge near the top. Bow weight definitely helped clean it up and lengthen it though. My next project is a DIY surfgate, so I'll try that before I consider adding more weight.

[aggie08]

I feel like I'm hijacking my own thread, but does anybody have any suggestions on a good wedgeless wakeboard set-up? I played around with it a little yesterday, but this is my first time with 750's and the bow sac, so it's still trial and error at this point. I'm not practically able to follow the 60/40 rule back to front with all the bags full (unless I sit a couple people up front)--and this hull seems to like bow weight--so should I only fill the 750's to about 600 or so? Or can I run a ~70/30 ratio with this hull without the wake getting peaky and soft? I like to ride fast and long (~24 mph @ 75-80'), so clean and firm are priorities over pure size.

[Nitrousbird]

Totally copying this system. Only change is to keep the pumps in the vdrive if I can. 6 minutes and one thru hull I can live with that.

The three pumps easily fit in the V-drive area (that's where my 3 are located). If you tuck them in right they don't get in the way of any maintenance items (a big part of my install was making sure I can still do the same maintenance as I did prior to the ballast system). Having them there is far superior to any other place, as this is unused space you can't utilize for anything else. With proper hose routing you will see very little hose in your install and not impact any storage areas.

[aggie08]

The three pumps easily fit in the V-drive area (that's where my 3 are located). If you tuck them in right they don't get in the way of any maintenance items (a big part of my install was making sure I can still do the same maintenance as I did prior to the ballast system). Having them there is far superior to any other place, as this is unused space you can't utilize for anything else. With proper hose routing you will see very little hose in your install and not impact any storage areas.

Nitrous, I have your install bookmarked. Looked at it a bunch when I was deciding how to do mine. Great job! Does the clear hose have the same properties as black? It looks a little less stiff than the black hose I went with. Either that or you're really patient. I decided to drill holes largely because it was tricky trying to bend and contort the hose to fit in the existing wiring cutouts.

3 Pumps will definitely fit in the V-drive, but 4 may have been a little difficult, especially with the ground post I drilled in. It wasn't a big deal to me putting them outside because I use the starboard under seat storage for fire extinguishers, manuals, and spare parts, so it's never accessed. The only real storage space I lost was under the port middle seat, but I already know I'll never put a surf bag down there, and there's still plenty of room for vests and bumpers.

That said, if you can fit all your pumps in the V-Drive, you might as well do it. One of the big reasons I decided to not even try to fit them was because I wanted the pumps to be separated, so I could hear them change pitch (when the bags are dry) individually; however, with all 4 pumps on, you can barely make out a single pump changing pitch, much less which one.

Edited January 13, 2014 by aggie08

[mnhays]

I feel like I'm hijacking my own thread, but does anybody have any suggestions on a good wedgeless wakeboard set-up? I played around with it a little yesterday, but this is my first time with 750's and the bow sac, so it's still trial and error at this point. I'm not practically able to follow the 60/40 rule back to front with all the bags full (unless I sit a couple people up front)--and this hull seems to like bow weight--so should I only fill the 750's to about 600 or so? Or can I run a ~70/30 ratio with this hull without the wake getting peaky and soft? I like to ride fast and long (~24 mph @ 75-80'), so clean and firm are priorities over pure size.

98 sunsetter vlx

2 - 750s in back full and 400# in bow at 22.7 is what I ride with. one driver 170# and one observer 90#. at 70-75' rice and rampy no wedge.

[aggie08]

98 sunsetter vlx

2 - 750s in back full and 400# in bow at 22.7 is what I ride with. one driver 170# and one observer 90#. at 70-75' rice and rampy no wedge.

Thanks. That's not too dissimilar to what I went with.

I ended up remedying the back/front ratio difficulties by turning my 4 bag system into a 5 bag one by splitting the underutilized 4th pump between the bow and a detachable bag/hose I can put anywere using a 3-way selector valve. One quick snap in the walkway (see below), and I have 400 pounds I can put anywhere and still fill/empty from a switch.

I usually have a pretty full boat, so I really need bow weight. My current set-up is:

Both rear 750's full

Ski locker full (~350-400)

Integrated bow sack full under seats (~250)

400 pounds in the walkway

Maybe 1-2 people in the bow

If the boat's really full (or it's cold and no one wants to sit up front), I can put the 400 on the bow seats for a total of almost 700# directly in the bow.

I wouldn't recommend going less than 23 mph with this set-up (maybe at '70 it would be okay), but it's a lot of fun.

Really stoked I decided to go with 5 bags.

Edited February 7, 2014 by aggie08