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malibubts

'94 Echelon Dropped Drive Shaft

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malibubts

Was out on a houseboat trip this weekend and had a little trouble with the Echelon. Everything was fine all day Friday, but then Saturday morning the boat would not go into gear. I pulled away from the house boat just fine and a skier hopped in. When I went to put it into gear the engine and transmission revved up but nothing happened. Went back to the stern cover plate to see water coming in and the driveshaft all the way back into the seal. It had basically fallen all the way out of the drive shaft passage, with the rudder keeping it from falling all the way out. The flange appears completely intact but the drive shaft basically came out of it. I also ended up finding the brass key in the bilge after we pulled the boat and it looks like it has sheered a bit. I can get some pictures later on today of that. So my question really is how does that drive shaft connect to the flange? Is this an easy fix of something just got loose or am I looking at a big headache here? Odd thing is that we didn't hit anything all day or have any issues friday so I can't imagine what would have caused this.

Edited by malibubts

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Woodski

Pop the four bolts off the coupling and you should find a nut laying in there. It connects to the threads on the end of the shaft. Use a new nut with good nyloc so it does not happen again.

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malibu2004

Mine did the same thing at the beginning of this the year.

My guess is you've never checked your alignment and over the years it got weaker and weaker until it broke. It's very common.

So you need to buy a new shaft with coupling. They come together and cost about $380. You pay someone your looking at $1000 to $1200

You'll most likely need to jack up the boat and remove the rudder then pull out the shaft and put in the new one.

Tools needed

Floor jack, we used 2 to disperse the weight better.

Piece of wood to set on top of jacks and towel to protect the boats gel coat when you jack it up.

Prop Puller

Wrenches to pull coupling off of transmission and to drop rudder.

.003 feeler gauge to align drive shaft

Wrenches to loosen motor mounts if out of alignment.

Piece of wood to wedge under prop when you tighten the drive shaft.

You can do easily it in under 4 hours if you plan it out and have help.

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malibu2004

The shaft has threads on it that goes through that coupling. A locking nut holds the shaft to the coupling with a set screw on the side to hold the nut.

If your shaft is out and you don't see threads on the transmission side you need a new shaft. Pop the coupling off the transmission and you'll see what I'm talking about.

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malibubts

Pop the four bolts off the coupling and you should find a nut laying in there. It connects to the threads on the end of the shaft. Use a new nut with good nyloc so it does not happen again.

This would make sense. Any idea where I can order a new key since the key I have got a chunk taken out of it? Also is there a spec torque for that nut on the back of the flange? Will I need to realign anything or should everything still be in spec?

Mine did the same thing at the beginning of this the year.

My guess is you've never checked your alignment and over the years it got weaker and weaker until it broke. It's very common.

So you need to buy a new shaft with coupling. They come together and cost about $380. You pay someone your looking at $1000 to $1200

You'll most likely need to jack up the boat and remove the rudder then pull out the shaft and put in the new one.

Tools needed

Floor jack, we used 2 to disperse the weight better.

Piece of wood to set on top of jacks and towel to protect the boats gel coat when you jack it up.

Prop Puller

Wrenches to pull coupling off of transmission and to drop rudder.

.003 feeler gauge to align drive shaft

Wrenches to loosen motor mounts if out of alignment.

Piece of wood to wedge under prop when you tighten the drive shaft.

You can do easily it in under 4 hours if you plan it out and have help.

The shaft has threads on it that goes through that coupling. A locking nut holds the shaft to the coupling with a set screw on the side to hold the nut.

If your shaft is out and you don't see threads on the transmission side you need a new shaft. Pop the coupling off the transmission and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I just purchased the boat about halfway through the summer, I would have to look at the POs service records to see if he has had that done. But I do have threads on the drive shaft. Nothing appears to be damaged except for the key, I'll put up a picture later. I found the key in the bilge but I also have a hole in the flange where it looks like a set screw might go. Is that where the set screw that you are talking about goes? What almost seems like has happened is that nut on the back of the flange just gut loser with time and ultimately came off, letting the drive shaft pass through the flage and fall back as far as it could.

I'm also looked back some service records and I see a very general bill that states 'Fix loose prop' and the charge was for $85 so I'm not sure if that would be related or not. The date for the invoice was 9/1/2011, so basically 2 years ago.The shaft was also repacked on 10/27/2011

Edited by malibubts

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malibu2004

If you got threads and the nut backed off it should be in the flange that attaches to the transmission. The torque on it is as tight as you can get it. Use a piece of wood to hold the prop.

I would check the alignment. It's apart so you should do it. You move the motor to align the shaft.

I hit a stump 5 or 6 years ago and it just broke this year.

The set screw is a allen wrench type that is fairly small.

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Woodski

You might want to download the Marine Hardware catalog, lots of good info within. They can provide all the needed parts, but also other vendors such as SkiDim, Wholesale Marine, iboats, your local dealer or even a good hardware store will carry the parts in the appropriate material (that is the key so they don't rust).

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Bawshogg

Torque spec on the prop shaft flange but is 85 ft lbs.

You will most likely need to cut down a socket to get acces to the nut when in between the trans flange and the shaft flange. Depends on how far back your packing nuts allow the flange to be pushed back. 1"1/16 is what the marine hardware shafts use. Oh crap. Is that a 1" shaft ? Might be smaller.

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jk13

. Oh crap. Is that a 1" shaft ? Might be smaller.

Nope. 1 1/8".

Good info.

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malibubts

Alright I keep the boat at my ski lake about 40 minutes away so I can't look until this weekend but does this sound like a solid plan of action?

1) Remove flange on drive shaft side
2) If nut is located in the flange order appropriate replacement hardware
3) Replace the nut holding the drive shaft onto the flange, replace the key, replace the set screw
4) Reinstall flange containing drive shaft assemnly

5) Check for alignment (Is there a thread on this somewhere?)

Also I have the pictures from the key. I'm assuming it is supposed to be not sheered off as it is in the pictures?

HgyYrMI.jpg

mNoQlta.jpg

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Baddog

That key doesn't look exactly sheared. it mave have been machined that way to aid installation. Definitely replace it.

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malibu2004

I didn't think the key could fall out.

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malibu2004

To move the motor you have up and down and side to side. The side to side is probably pinch pins the up and down are bolts with nuts on them. From what I understand it's the side to side that gets out of alignment. Release the pinch pins and get a big pry bar, no put the little pry bar down and get a man pry bar. I used a 5 footer for mine. You're going to need to put your purse down to move it. Mine was super hard to move. Take a couple of 2x4's 10 inches long so you can put pressure against them and not your boat or motor.

I left the flange loose then checked my gap which was off by about .010 from side to side. I moved the motor until I got it all the same distance around. You measure at 3,6,9 and 12. Don't spin the shaft to measure you have to move the feeler gauge.

I got mine the same all the way around then tightened everything back down. It has to be with in .003 all the way around before you tighten it back down.

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malibubts

Pulled of the flange yesterday and sure enough the nut was on the inside. So I'm looking at a new nut there, a set screw for the flange and a new key. Would you guys reccomend marine hardware then for these pieces?

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Baddog

Pulled of the flange yesterday and sure enough the nut was on the inside. So I'm looking at a new nut there, a set screw for the flange and a new key. Would you guys reccomend marine hardware then for these pieces?

Don't see any reason it should have to be marine grade as this is an area of the boat that really shouldn't be getting wet anyway.

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Woodski

You can get a fair amount of water in the bilge, so I would certainly not skimp on it. Stainless steel nuts are not too expensive and can be found at a good hardware store. Other alternative is brass.

Edited by Woodski

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Baddog

You can get a fair amount of water in the bilge, so I would certainly not skimp on it.

I thought that's what bilge pumps are for.

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malibu2004

Stainless steel

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Michigan boarder

I thought that's what bilge pumps are for.

Even if the hardware is not sitting in water, with some wetness in the bilge it would cause rust. I know there is a pocket right under the coupling that does not drain and will hold about a half cup of water, and water would evaporate over the hardware. A couple bucks extra would be a good move.

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malibubts

Alright sounds like I'll just head to the hardware store for the set screw and nut. As far as the key, do the keys up near the coulper and down by the prop shaft differ? Am I safe in purchasing this key in the correct size from Bake's?

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1462

Edited by malibubts

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Baddog

Even if the hardware is not sitting in water, with some wetness in the bilge it would cause rust. I know there is a pocket right under the coupling that does not drain and will hold about a half cup of water, and water would evaporate over the hardware. A couple bucks extra would be a good move.

Good points. Duh, what was I thinking??

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malibubts

Does anyone know for sure what diameter the shaft would be. I have seen online that a single grove around the coupler means a 1" shaft and this coupler has 1 grove. However I measured the key size to confirm and have 1 1/2" by 1/4", which bakes says goes with the 1 1/8" shaft. I'm thinking the shaft is actually the 1" and the reason the key is 'sheared' is because it needed to be sized down. The shear starts right at 1 1/4" on the key, the dimensions I saw for the 1" shaft key.

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eyekode

Not sure but I would order the nut from Bakes as well. You are going to have to pay for shipping anyway. I didn't have good luck finding the right nut locally for my prop (note this wasn't the prop shaft).

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Woodski

Echelon shaft is 1-1/8". Check the number on the prop, that will also tell you or measure the shaft to confirm.

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Baddog

Or just measure the shaft. Got a mic?

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