Anyone have pics of the Axis T22?

[Fman]

I'm with Doc, that interior is about as generic as they come. No blue piping in bow, but they use it in the rest of the boat??? Seems like another color/texture would really bring some life into the look.

[Fman]

In that case, I challenge you to find me a 2014 LSV with the LS3 for under 90.

Out the door? Min with upgraded stereo + upgrades + tax $100k. Still better than $125k for a G23.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Fman

[CJAY]

In that case, I challenge you to find me a 2014 LSV with the LS3 for under 90.

The base boat with the LS3 is 82k, no options. You could get one in the mid to high 90s lightly optioned

[85 Barefoot]

Yall notice the flip up passenger seat ala mxzs? Don't see why they didn't do one on driver's side tho?

[DatTexasBoy]

Wish thru had done the flip up observer seat in the 2014 A22........

[thtrog]

I don’t think the Axis interior will ever be up to the Malibu level, nor should it. I looked very close at Axis in ’09 before I purchased a new VLX and it’s come a long way since then…yes the price of both have gone up. The vinyl patterns are in the bow of white/blue boat if they had used an accent color; look at the black/green reveal boat to see them better. Also in the main cabin you can have the base vinyl a different color than the main, which would give it more definition. The thing I think I would miss most with Axis is having the flexibility of the power wedge.

[wakesetter8796]

I know it is the same vinyl per say but it just feels cheaper to me. I might be in the minority here.

It also gets torn easier.

[Nitrousbird]

Last time I was at a Malibu dealer they were pushing a new VLX at me... 15K down and $633 a month for 15 years.

They were either selling one hell of a loaded VLX or were trying to rip you off.

At a realistic 5% interest rate, at 15 years with 15k down, that would be an out the door price on the boat of $95,000!

That said, anyone that needs a 15 year loan to afford a boat can't afford the boat. Exceptions:

- Yearly boat flippers that have a deal going with their dealer

- Those who pay 2-3x the payment amount monthly and do the long term loan to minimize risk

- Those with cash on hand who are making a higher return on their investment than they are paying in interest on the loan

[UofM_MXZ]

It is an ok boat in my opinion. I would take a VLX over it anyday, hell I would take a response over it. Something about it just looks cheap to me. I don't know what it is, and it isn't the price tag. I am sure they are very well made but I just can't put my finger on it.

[UofM_MXZ]

They were either selling one hell of a loaded VLX or were trying to rip you off.

At a realistic 5% interest rate, at 15 years with 15k down, that would be an out the door price on the boat of $95,000!

That said, anyone that needs a 15 year loan to afford a boat can't afford the boat. Exceptions:

- Yearly boat flippers that have a deal going with their dealer

- Those who pay 2-3x the payment amount monthly and do the long term loan to minimize risk

- Those with cash on hand who are making a higher return on their investment than they are paying in interest on the loan

although this is off topic of the thread, I think this statement is false. There are so many things that go into an economic decision that saying a 15 year loan means someone can't afford a boat. I got a 15 year loan, plan on paying it off early but hell who knows what can happen. I just paid off my house in Hawaii and that was more important to me than shelling out the cash for the boat. No offense to you but I hate when people make economic assumptions about others.

Edited November 5, 2013 by UofMVLX

[Afun]

They were either selling one hell of a loaded VLX or were trying to rip you off.

At a realistic 5% interest rate, at 15 years with 15k down, that would be an out the door price on the boat of $95,000!

That said, anyone that needs a 15 year loan to afford a boat can't afford the boat. Exceptions:

- Yearly boat flippers that have a deal going with their dealer

- Those who pay 2-3x the payment amount monthly and do the long term loan to minimize risk

- Those with cash on hand who are making a higher return on their investment than they are paying in interest on the loan

I don't understand the reasoning either.

[CJAY]

They were either selling one hell of a loaded VLX or were trying to rip you off.

At a realistic 5% interest rate, at 15 years with 15k down, that would be an out the door price on the boat of $95,000!

That said, anyone that needs a 15 year loan to afford a boat can't afford the boat. Exceptions:

- Yearly boat flippers that have a deal going with their dealer

- Those who pay 2-3x the payment amount monthly and do the long term loan to minimize risk

- Those with cash on hand who are making a higher return on their investment than they are paying in interest on the loan

I think this a very closed minded way to look at this. It's like saying anyone who leases a car can't afford to have one, or anyone who does a 30 year mortgage on a house can't afford one. There are many different reasons people get 15 year loans, far more than you listed. That all being said, the ability to get these types of loans are helping fuel the inflated pricing in the industry.

[Nitrousbird]

I think this a very closed minded way to look at this. It's like saying anyone who leases a car can't afford to have one, or anyone who does a 30 year mortgage on a house can't afford one. There are many different reasons people get 15 year loans, far more than you listed. That all being said, the ability to get these types of loans are helping fuel the inflated pricing in the industry.

Say what you will, but if you have to get a 15 year loan in order to be able to make the payment on a boat - YOU CAN NOT AFFORD THE BOAT.

If you have other reasons, such as the three I stated, or are paying higher payments on other items to pay them off first to put more towards this loan later, that can be a different case. If you need a 15 year loan is needed in order to be able to make the payments, you will be underwater on that boat for almost the entire life of the loan. This mean if you want to upgrade, you will either roll over negative equity or not be able to. That also means if something happens and you have to sell it, instead of selling the boat to get out of the loan you will likely be defaulting on the loan.

There are reasons for people leasing cars...in many cases it can be better for those that flip cars every 2-3 years because they want to do that. There are also plenty that lease because they could never afford the payment on that same vehicle new.

A house is a totally different ball game. Excluding the recent housing crash, a home is typically not a depreciating asset, or at least not highly depreciating like a car or boat. You also need a home, whether renting or buying, so that money has to be spent one way or another. A home is typically a much larger purchase than a car/boat - think about it, most people shelling out 100k on a boat likely have a home worth a lot more.

[85 Barefoot]

I don't think that's what nitrous was saying, he used the word "need"....anyone who "needs" to finance for 15 years can't afford one...I kind of agree. Not to say that anyone can't manage money how they see fit, but servicing debt for 15 years on a depreciating asset when another strategy isn't being used? Put me in the can't afford it category at worst, bad financial planning at best.

[CJAY]

Say what you will, but if you have to get a 15 year loan in order to be able to make the payment on a boat - YOU CAN NOT AFFORD THE BOAT.

If you have other reasons, such as the three I stated, or are paying higher payments on other items to pay them off first to put more towards this loan later, that can be a different case. If you need a 15 year loan is needed in order to be able to make the payments, you will be underwater on that boat for almost the entire life of the loan. This mean if you want to upgrade, you will either roll over negative equity or not be able to. That also means if something happens and you have to sell it, instead of selling the boat to get out of the loan you will likely be defaulting on the loan.

There are reasons for people leasing cars...in many cases it can be better for those that flip cars every 2-3 years because they want to do that. There are also plenty that lease because they could never afford the payment on that same vehicle new.

A house is a totally different ball game. Excluding the recent housing crash, a home is typically not a depreciating asset, or at least not highly depreciating like a car or boat. You also need a home, whether renting or buying, so that money has to be spent one way or another. A home is typically a much larger purchase than a car/boat - think about it, most people shelling out 100k on a boat likely have a home worth a lot more.

There is also the idea that people want to lessen their payment, so they get a longer loan. Just because you can afford a $1500 a month payment on a luxury vehicle that is just a hobby doesn't mean you want to do so. It's far easier to spread that burden over many years and if you want to pay extra you can and if you don't you don't have to. You can use that extra money for investments or other hobbies.

Right now it's hard to be underwater in the current wakeboat market. Every year the price increases cause the used market to also increase. My 07 VTX is currently worth more than I bought it for 4 years ago. if you put down 10-20% the odds of you being underwater "on that boat for the entire life of the loan" is not necessarily true.

For you it may mean that you can't afford the boat if you need a 15 years loan, but that doesn't make the same for others.

[mrnate450r]

On top of all of that, things like debt to income come into play. Say you want to buy a new house during your 5 year term on an 80,000 loan. That would greatly effect your ability to borrow money. In our current economic situation, even having a job isn't a sure thing. Playing it safe with low payments is smart, however, I only believe it is smart if you make extra payments while you can.

[CJAY]

I don't think that's what nitrous was saying, he used the word "need"....anyone who "needs" to finance for 15 years can't afford one...I kind of agree. Not to say that anyone can't manage money how they see fit, but servicing debt for 15 years on a depreciating asset when another strategy isn't being used? Put me in the can't afford it category at worst, bad financial planning at best.

Need is still a relative word. There are many reasons to need to spread your payments out over 15years, not all of them mean you can't afford not to.

[CJAY]

On top of all of that, things like debt to income come into play. Say you want to buy a new house during your 5 year term on an 80,000 loan. That would greatly effect your ability to borrow money. In our current economic situation, even having a job isn't a sure thing. Playing it safe with low payments is smart, however, I only believe it is smart if you make extra payments while you can.

I agree, I just can't see wrapping up a large part of my net income for a toy I use half the year. The smaller the payment the better, especially during the unusable winter months.

[isellacuras]

although this is off topic of the thread, I think this statement is false. There are so many things that go into an economic decision that saying a 15 year loan means someone can't afford a boat. I got a 15 year loan, plan on paying it off early but hell who knows what can happen. I just paid off my house in Hawaii and that was more important to me than shelling out the cash for the boat. No offense to you but I hate when people make economic assumptions about others.

Agreed. I financed at 20 years for a number of reasons. First was l because the rate was lower at 20 than it was at 15 or even 10. Banks will make more money at a lower rate over a longer term but there are many factors to think about. It's simple interest with no pre payment penalty so I can pay it off at any time should the want or need arise. I try to make double if not triple the monthly payment but I am locked at below a 250 minimum. I doubt I will keep the boat for more than 5 years. Another is that my investments are making far more than the interest I am paying. Heck, it was hard for me to justify putting down what I did because of that alone. I think it is important to be in an equity position but to say that it's foolish or not affordable with a long term option is an incorrect statement IMO. I couldn't afford to pay cash for the one I bought but I darn sure can afford to buy it.

Edit becasue I should retract all I said because I see that I fit at least two of NB's 3 bullet points. I think I missed his first post about not being able to afford. Glad were back on track. But on topic, I will take a 20 year loan to be able to make a malibu more affordable over an Axis.

Edited November 5, 2013 by isellacuras

[ahopkins22LSV]

Say what you will, but if you have to get a 15 year loan in order to be able to make the payment on a boat - YOU CAN NOT AFFORD THE BOAT.

If you have other reasons, such as the three I stated, or are paying higher payments on other items to pay them off first to put more towards this loan later, that can be a different case. If you need a 15 year loan is needed in order to be able to make the payments, you will be underwater on that boat for almost the entire life of the loan. This mean if you want to upgrade, you will either roll over negative equity or not be able to. That also means if something happens and you have to sell it, instead of selling the boat to get out of the loan you will likely be defaulting on the loan.

There are reasons for people leasing cars...in many cases it can be better for those that flip cars every 2-3 years because they want to do that. There are also plenty that lease because they could never afford the payment on that same vehicle new.

A house is a totally different ball game. Excluding the recent housing crash, a home is typically not a depreciating asset, or at least not highly depreciating like a car or boat. You also need a home, whether renting or buying, so that money has to be spent one way or another. A home is typically a much larger purchase than a car/boat - think about it, most people shelling out 100k on a boat likely have a home worth a lot more.

Based on this theory everyone who has a 15 or 20 year loan and is making the minimum payments should sell their boat, which would include me and I think a lot of other people here and not on these forums.

A boat is not a financial investment. Even people that get new boats every year or few year don't look to make money on. Most I know look to break even. Yes I understand some may make money but that the minority of boaters. I think most people understand they are going to lose money on their boat. My wife and I fully understand that but we didn't buy the boat to make money. We bought it to get the return of time and memories with our friends and family. And to enjoy our passion and love for the water and skiing. I agree I could not afford our boat CASH, but I can easily afford our boat with our loan. You also have to buy smart, not get talked into too many options if that is what it takes. I wish we didn't have to have a 15 year long, but it is the sacrifice we were willing to make.

[85 Barefoot]

There is also the idea that people want to lessen their payment, so they get a longer loan. Just because you can afford a $1500 a month payment on a luxury vehicle that is just a hobby doesn't mean you want to do so. It's far easier to spread that burden over many years and if you want to pay extra you can and if you don't you don't have to. You can use that extra money for investments or other hobbies.

Right now it's hard to be underwater in the current wakeboat market. Every year the price increases cause the used market to also increase. My 07 VTX is currently worth more than I bought it for 4 years ago. if you put down 10-20% the odds of you being underwater "on that boat for the entire life of the loan" is not necessarily true.

For you it may mean that you can't afford the boat if you need a 15 years loan, but that doesn't make the same for others.

Well, of course its easier, but its also WAY more expensive. You're talking about compounding interest over 15 years. There are many reasons someone could justify it, but it's only easier in the short term. MUCH harder (and more expensive) in the long run. That said, everyone can spend money how they like.

[ahopkins22LSV]

Well, of course its easier, but its also WAY more expensive. You're talking about compounding interest over 15 years. There are many reasons someone could justify it, but it's only easier in the short term. MUCH harder (and more expensive) in the long run. That said, everyone can spend money how they like.

Can't take it with ya (as far as we know.. )

[85 Barefoot]

Need is still a relative word. There are many reasons to need to spread your payments out over 15years, not all of them mean you can't afford not to.

Actually, "need" is not relative. I agree there can be legitimate reasons for using a long term loan, but if after expenses each month you have x left over and x represents the monthly payment on a 15 year boat loan, there's not a financial advisor on the planet who would say you can afford it. Now, if after expenses, savings, whatever, you are left with x+y and you choose to use x a long term loan, do whatever you want.

Edited November 5, 2013 by 85 Barefoot

[85 Barefoot]

Can't take it with ya (as far as we know.. )

Nope, but you do need it until you go!

Personally, I think we have become a society of people who think because we qualify for a loan we can afford something. That is not the definition.

[CJAY]

Well, of course its easier, but its also WAY more expensive. You're talking about compounding interest over 15 years. There are many reasons someone could justify it, but it's only easier in the short term. MUCH harder (and more expensive) in the long run. That said, everyone can spend money how they like.

Most people aren't going to keep it for 15 years, and depending on what you do with that money you could actually make money investing what you're saving on the payment. It's all perspective. People do things different ways for different reasons. I just think it's ignorant to assume someone can't afford something because they choose to do it differently. I have a 15 year loan on my current boat and have paid off a quarter of what I owe in 4 years. The payment is so small that we don't even notice it, and it is automatically taken from a separate account each month. I'm trading in my boat on a new boat, and will have a 15 year loan on that boat and plan on keeping it 5-7 years.

With the deal I'm getting and the amount I'm putting down I will more than likely never be underwater in that time period and will have another 15-20% to put down on the next one. I see the cost of my boat payment as something investment in entertainment and not an fiscal investment. My return is the enjoyment I get and the memories my family and I have form owning a boat. The payment does not cause me to struggle financially, and I don't expect to make money on it. I can afford the boat I am purchasing.