Hands down the best wave! Details and vid inside

[IXFE]

Your so mean in all your posts IXFE. Why you gotta be so hard on me and the others.....I am not ready to put myself on video. Thats my wave and I am proud of it. Maybe a little bow weight will makes things a little nicer, but thats my wave. It works!

Oh come on now, Afun. I wasn't being mean in either post. Didn't you notice my ;-) face in the last post and the fun-natured jab about giving you credit? I'm warming up to you....

I promise nothing by nice from now on. We VLX SG owners need to stick together. The forest is full of sleeping bears. If you wake them up, they will eat you!

Edited August 29, 2013 by IXFE

[IXFE]

I am not trying to turn this back into another surfgate vs. non surfgate thread.

Too late... that happened several pages ago.

[IXFE]

Don't start taking your shirt off, its all in good fun. If I'm correct IXFE was the one who put a vid up of his "not-so-stellar" surfing (sorry if I got the wrong guy). It does help show the wave better and he got some great tips from the crew. Don't be shy Afun, do you want to sound like you know what your doing or do you want to learn how to do it. A little advice can go a long way, don't be shy, were all family by now.

Yes, that was me! And I can appreciate being nervous to post up vids of oneself in front of a group of much better riders. But Tricky is right, the Crew was great and I actually got a lot of good pointers.

In the spirit of checking my pride at the door, I'll post up another. This video was taken last week at Lake Shasta. The boat only has MLS + PnP (750's) + my family on board (wife + four kiddos). I think speed was just a 10.6 or 10.8. Wedge was at or near the bottom... don't remember for sure, we were playing around with different settings.

What do you guys think? Am I getting better??

Disclaimer: Please forgive the focus issues... I just threw the DSLR to my 13 year old daughter w/out any instruction. I had to do that because the day before my GoPro managed to find the bottom of the lake.

Edited August 29, 2013 by IXFE

[nyryan2001]

nyryan. I have posted up the video where we tried to do an empirical test of the two different types of wake twice on this forum already. I am not trying to turn this back into another surfgate vs. non surfgate thread. I know some of you don't like gated wakes as well, and that's fine. Personal preference. All I can say is that with my 2009 247 I get results I and the people I ride with like better with a gate than I ever did leaning it with factory plus 2600 lbs. Your results, Bobby's results, anyone else's results have been or may be completely different. If you want the video, shoot me a pm, and I will be glad to send you the video links, pictures of the gate, or whatever you think would be helpful.

And really, I consider myself to be more hammy or homey than hommie.

wasnt calling you out, just wanted to see the wave, i think it'd contrinbute to the discussion. No doubt a 247 will throw down.

[Afun]

Oh come on now, Afun. I wasn't being mean in either post. Didn't you notice my ;-) face in the last post and the fun-natured jab about giving you credit? I'm warming up to you....

I promise nothing by nice from now on. We VLX SG owners need to stick together. The forest is full of sleeping bears. If you wake them up, they will eat you!

Ok. Shirt back on. If I add a bow sac to my boat, it will solitify my existence on planet earth. With that being said....the safety bow rating of 500lbs....does that include the stock hard tank full? My dealer just picked up some fly high bow sacs with the Tsnumai pump. Yes I will purchase one ASAP! I think the wave will be perfect....HANDS FREAKIN DOWN!!

[IXFE]

Ok. Shirt back on. If I add a bow sac to my boat, it will solitify my existence on planet earth. With that being said....the safety bow rating of 500lbs....does that include the stock hard tank full? My dealer just picked up some fly high bow sacs with the Tsnumai pump. Yes I will purchase one ASAP! I think the wave will be perfect....HANDS FREAKIN DOWN!!

All jokes aside... we are running 750's in our lockers (might be a worthwhile upgrade for you) and I usually make three of my kids sit in the bow (so maybe another 250lbs. on top of the already full bow tank). That leaves the cabin virtually empty with only my wife driving and my other kid as a spotter. That's the configuration you are seeing above and I think it's a fun wave (notice I didn't say "hands down the best evar").

I do own an additional 750lb. sumo sack that I've used in the walkway a couple of times. I gotta be honest, it didn't do much for me. I think I need to play around with it more or try it up in the bow.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 500lb. warning. Just be careful not to dip the nose.

[TrickyNicky]

Heck ya your getting better! I stayed around there for a while before progressing, mainly because you just keep getting more and more aggressive until one day you realize this is going to get boring or I'm going to need to try an actual trick. You even look like your having some fun

[TrickyNicky]

Ok. Shirt back on. If I add a bow sac to my boat, it will solitify my existence on planet earth. With that being said....the safety bow rating of 500lbs....does that include the stock hard tank full? My dealer just picked up some fly high bow sacs with the Tsnumai pump. Yes I will purchase one ASAP! I think the wave will be perfect....HANDS FREAKIN DOWN!!

Have you read the warning in your rear lockers? 50 lbs!! Malibu is known to have very small mechanics.

[IXFE]

Heck ya your getting better! I stayed around there for a while before progressing, mainly because you just keep getting more and more aggressive until one day you realize this is going to get boring or I'm going to need to try an actual trick. You even look like your having some fun

What trick would you recommend? I'm all ears!!

[Afun]

All jokes aside... we are running 750's in our lockers (might be a worthwhile upgrade for you) and I usually make three of my kids sit in the bow (so maybe another 250lbs. on top of the already full bow tank). That leaves the cabin virtually empty with only my wife driving and my other kid as a spotter. That's the configuration you are seeing above and I think it's a fun wave (notice I didn't say "hands down the best evar").

I do own an additional 750lb. sumo sack that I've used in the walkway a couple of times. I gotta be honest, it didn't do much for me. I think I need to play around with it more or try it up in the bow.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 500lb. warning. Just be careful not to dip the nose.

Dipping the nose is the one thing I worry about. Adding the bow sac will make me and my crew take even larger turns. I can't wait. I am going to fill that Fligh HIgh sac about half way. That should be 500 in the bow plus the stock 250. I bet you hands down that this will be the recipe for near perfection.

[Alty]

I don't completely agree with this. I've had more weight in the boat and had a soft wave. It was well noted because I was upset after the effort I went through to make a big wave. It was bigger and longer than usual but for whatever reason it was just soft. Followed a pretty regular placement of things too.

Or maybe I'm just confusing push and firmness because I guess it did have lots of push but it was never really hard and grabbing at the board.

Any takers on how long it takes until Afun steps up to 750's? 2x750's and you'll have an extra 550 for the bow? Bow weight is huge. I made the best wave yet on my VTX after 4 seasons after reading recommendations about bow weight. It firmed the wave up nice and really gave me lots of room to play and drive to the line to ...attempt...airs. Hoping to get some vids from friends so I can post my hands up best wave thread.

Don't start taking your shirt off, its all in good fun. If I'm correct IXFE was the one who put a vid up of his "not-so-stellar" surfing (sorry if I got the wrong guy). It does help show the wave better and he got some great tips from the crew. Don't be shy Afun, do you want to sound like you know what your doing or do you want to learn how to do it. A little advice can go a long way, don't be shy, were all family by now.

Alty,

the wave looks good but I'm damn curious about your wedge and speed settings, see if you can check the calibration on those, it would help others immensely in trying to replicate it.

my settings were mentioned but i will repeat them, we are every in tune with the boat and everything is pretty exacts except our speed may be off and i will gps the speed this weekend. its 21 foot vlx, with plug and play option which includes 2 750 sacs in the rear. it has the 2315 prop, the wedge is set to 125% (which means we have the wedge set to 100% in the presets and then we clikc it up one time as the boat starts moving) speed is set between 9.6 and 9.8 but ui have a suspicion that this may be innaccurate.

as for the comment about adding bow weight from tricky nicky all i can say is that teh difference between the vtx and the vlxwere drastically different boats as far as the wave is concerned, my friend got the vtx as a loner for 2 days and it had the same plug and play package with 750 sacs and i was amazed at how different the wave was. i found it drastically smaller and shorter. im not a hull engineer but that one foot in difference betwen the vtx and the vlx seems to make a huge difference.

[TrickyNicky]

Personally, I tell ppl to start thrashing harder/more aggresive, than practice going up the wave and riding it for longer periods of time than recovering. Basically get the nose of the board pointed in all directions as far as you can. Than the first little "trick" is I tell people to ride up the wave and try to "boardslide" the wave. So you being goofy try riding up and than pushing the tail of the board left and forward. Start small and keep increasing it and holding it longer until your 90 degrees plus. After that 3's and airs. Airs I'm still working on (got very small ones) and that's where all the "firm" wave talk comes from, its crucial. 3's I've landed 4 now, last night being the 4th and cleanest one ever. I spun it like a top and my boat guests thought I had done it a thousand times (until they saw my following attempts). I didn't even move back in the wave I probably could have spun a 7 if I kept the form.

[TrickyNicky]

my settings were mentioned but i will repeat them, we are every in tune with the boat and everything is pretty exacts except our speed may be off and i will gps the speed this weekend. its 21 foot vlx, with plug and play option which includes 2 750 sacs in the rear. it has the 2315 prop, the wedge is set to 125% (which means we have the wedge set to 100% in the presets and then we clikc it up one time as the boat starts moving) speed is set between 9.6 and 9.8 but ui have a suspicion that this may be innaccurate.

as for the comment about adding bow weight from tricky nicky all i can say is that teh difference between the vtx and the vlxwere drastically different boats as far as the wave is concerned, my friend got the vtx as a loner for 2 days and it had the same plug and play package with 750 sacs and i was amazed at how different the wave was. i found it drastically smaller and shorter. im not a hull engineer but that one foot in difference betwen the vtx and the vlx seems to make a huge difference.

I've ridden and weighted a VLX with the exact same hull as yours a few times (no SG) as well as many other boats and although yes they make very different waves the use of bow weight is the same in all of them. lengthens the wave allows some more speed and firms up the wave. It was just a recommendation, I'm not riding it so I could care less, just trying to help you out. I weighted my boat without bow weight (still using the 350 bow tank) for 3 years and now I only ride with a 370 up there. My new benchmark for weighting is if I can see the water over the bow while sitting in the seat (bolster-up) (I'm 5-9).

And I know you've stated your setup but it is USELESS if your going off gauges that are inaccurate. I'm sure your speedo or wedge calibration is off, I'm actually betting it's both! You can calibrate the wedge too. If you ever care to, leave the wedge in the surf position when you trailer out the boat and snap a pic.

[Afun]

I've ridden and weighted a VLX with the exact same hull as yours a few times (no SG) as well as many other boats and although yes they make very different waves the use of bow weight is the same in all of them. lengthens the wave allows some more speed and firms up the wave. It was just a recommendation, I'm not riding it so I could care less, just trying to help you out. I weighted my boat without bow weight (still using the 350 bow tank) for 3 years and now I only ride with a 370 up there. My new benchmark for weighting is if I can see the water over the bow while sitting in the seat (bolster-up) (I'm 5-9).

And I know you've stated your setup but it is USELESS if your going off gauges that are inaccurate. I'm sure your speedo or wedge calibration is off, I'm actually betting it's both! You can calibrate the wedge too. If you ever care to, leave the wedge in the surf position when you trailer out the boat and snap a pic.

I thought the hard tank in the bow was 250? I think that's a good benchmark. Fill my external bow sac to the point that I could see the water over the bow while sitting in the bolster seat up position. That should give the length, and push I desire.

[TrickyNicky]

Malibudog: Good post for sure. While I'm not trying to discount your experience either (you've obviously tried the waves both ways) I will say: If you prefer the gated wave to the non-gated wave you're essentially saying "I prefer a softer, slower wave......that has a more 'pushy' feeling in the front half of the wave". That is a personal preference thing that I wouldn't argue for a second. But I think it's well established that the gated waves, while big and clean, lack firmness throughout and push at the back end........evidenced by video after video that have been posted both here and on YouTube.

Exactly. You're confusing 'push' (aka power) with firmness.

Power or Push is a factor of displacement (larger hull or more weight). Firmness comes from additional bow weight or speed, as does length. Cleanness is a factor of all the variables: weight, speed, placement of weight, etc........with the exception of SG. That thing, if nothing else, seems to produce a clean wave no matter what.

This I can absolutely attest to. Not that it may be the case for everyone but unlike real SG owners, this DIY'r has the option of putting the gate out as much or as little as he likes. Currently I list the boat but I will use the SG sometimes to clean up the wave a bit. There were a few times when ppl just kept "falling" out the back. They were harping on me and I just kept putting it back on there skill. Sure enough I got up and the wave was a bit soft but more than anything you'd back out of the wave and even though it seemed rideable there was just no way to drive back up it. We adjusted the gate and with every bit we'd close it the wave would give more push at the back and be firmer at the front.

Basically if SG blocks the offside water from rounding the boat and subsequently crashing into the surfside water than it will not build a big tall firm spine. (Ex. bobby's giant rooster, that is hugely responsible for the firmness). Think about how much water is coming together all at once and how much pressure there has to be for it to build straight up like that. 1" of deflection from my SG, that's still 100% behind, not beside, the boat deflects that water so it all joins up with the surfside water at different points. This reduces the rooster (cleaning up the look of the wave), but also reduces the firmness. As for why you loose push at the back? I don't have a clue but it's evident. It's more and more evident with every inch I extend my gate. I actually make adjustments on the fly based on if people are getting grabbed too hard by the wave or if they keep falling out the back and I can see the results.

That is hands down the 100% truth.

Edited August 29, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[TrickyNicky]

I thought the hard tank in the bow was 250? I think that's a good benchmark. Fill my external bow sac to the point that I could see the water over the bow while sitting in the bolster seat up position. That should give the length, and push I desire.

350 my friend! Rears 200 a aside, middle 500, front 350. Total 1250. think thats true for all except the 247 which gets an extra 200 somewhere.

Learning to take big PROPER turns is where it's at in my opinion. The skills learned doing that are the basis for every other 'trick' you will ever do. Plus, for me, it's by far the funnest, most gratifying thing to do. If there was nothing else in wakesurfing, snowboarding, wakeboarding, etc......I could giggle my a$$ off all day just taking big stylie turns.

EDIT: and congrats on those 3's man!!

Yeah I should start expressing that to learners. I've never mentioned big turns, I usually tell them to do small ones and than I guess they just start getting comfortable and make them bigger. 1000' vertical ona snowboard and 3 turns, yeah that's my fav! just thinking about it, can't wait to live out west!

Thanks, your very much apart of that success.

Edited August 29, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[Alty]

:rofl:

.......but strangely...... in your opinion.......the 3'-1" difference between the VLX and 247LSV seems to make no difference at all

This thread is awesome.

first off they are different hull designs but the vtx and vlx are the same hull design, so i .like to compare apples to apples, if you dont accept that then just look at the mxz which puts out a horrible wave no matter what size version you get. i dont doubt that the 247 puts out a better wave then the boat im riding, but i think the difference isnt very much and that boat is much bigger and more expensive

[Bobby Light]

I'm 5 feet 8 inches

FYI you're about as tall as that "little guy" that was riding when I posted the wave on my boat. 5'8" we still consider little around here.

[TrickyNicky]

first off they are different hull designs but the vtx and vlx are the same hull design, so i .like to compare apples to apples, if you dont accept that then just look at the mxz which puts out a horrible wave no matter what size version you get. i dont doubt that the 247 puts out a better wave then the boat im riding, but i think the difference isnt very much and that boat is much bigger and more expensive

The VLX and VTX are different hulls as well. They all have there own hull. Similarly with the exception of the VTX they are all designed to throw big waves so malibu ought to make them the best they can be for the size.

Also do you happen to know if the VTX was on the diamond hull? Pretty good odds there.

[Alty]

The VLX and VTX are different hulls as well. They all have there own hull. Similarly with the exception of the VTX they are all designed to throw big waves so malibu ought to make them the best they can be for the size.

Also do you happen to know if the VTX was on the diamond hull? Pretty good odds there.

i think you should inform malibu of this information as according to thier website and to thier boat specs the vtx and vlx have the exact same hull design

they both have the wake/cut diamond hull design

Edited August 29, 2013 by Alty

[sdk]

i think you should inform malibu of this information as according to thier website and to thier boat specs the vtx and vlx have the exact same hull design

they both have the wake/cut diamond hull design

I'm cheering for you Alty, as you've gottin' teamed up on pretty bad on this thread (and not always justifiabily - IMO ), but I have to say you're wrong on the hull - the wake hull and diamond cut are two different hulls. not sure about the other boats, but on the vtx they offer the wake hull OR the diamond, the diamond being a better slalom hull, which also means not as good for wakeboarding and surfing.

Edited August 29, 2013 by sdk

[Afun]

I've ridden and weighted a VLX with the exact same hull as yours a few times (no SG) as well as many other boats and although yes they make very different waves the use of bow weight is the same in all of them. lengthens the wave allows some more speed and firms up the wave. It was just a recommendation, I'm not riding it so I could care less, just trying to help you out. I weighted my boat without bow weight (still using the 350 bow tank) for 3 years and now I only ride with a 370 up there. My new benchmark for weighting is if I can see the water over the bow while sitting in the seat (bolster-up) (I'm 5-9).

And I know you've stated your setup but it is USELESS if your going off gauges that are inaccurate. I'm sure your speedo or wedge calibration is off, I'm actually betting it's both! You can calibrate the wedge too. If you ever care to, leave the wedge in the surf position when you trailer out the boat and snap a pic.

Tricky, let me understand you correctly. You add an additional 370 lbs of bow weight in addition to the stock 350 tank?

[Afun]

i think you should inform malibu of this information as according to thier website and to thier boat specs the vtx and vlx have the exact same hull design

they both have the wake/cut diamond hull design

Oh boy...I do not know about this. I am rooting for you. Wait until 85 Barefoot gets wind of this!

[Alty]

I'm cheering for you Alty, as you've gottin' teamed up on pretty bad on this thread (and not always jusifiabily - IMO), but I have to say you're wrong on the hull - the wake hull and diamond cut are two different hulls. not sure about the other boats, but on the vtx they offer the wake hull OR the diamond, the diamond being a better slalom ski hull, which also means not as good for wakeboarding and surfing.

im looking into it more in depth, and i didt realise that there was a choice in the hull design when you purchase, i thought wake/diamond cut was the name of the one design. that being said my comment that both the vtx and vlx i was on were the same design still holds, so they were both wake hulls

before everyone and thier brother gets in a hissy fit for my misunderstaning, i admit that was a mistake, but i did try the same design for both the vtx and the vlx and that 1 foot difference was way bigger, and i have tried three other new malibu boats and the difference wasnt very noticable except for the mxz which was shamefully bad

i credit sdk for showing me the error of my ways :-)

Edited August 29, 2013 by Alty

[Fman]

350 my friend! Rears 200 a aside, middle 500, front 350. Total 1250. think thats true for all except the 247 which gets an extra 200 somewhere.

Yeah I should start expressing that to learners. I've never mentioned big turns, I usually tell them to do small ones and than I guess they just start getting comfortable and make them bigger. 1000' vertical ona snowboard and 3 turns, yeah that's my fav! just thinking about it, can't wait to live out west!

Thanks, your very much apart of that success.

On the vlx it is 250 lbs each rear, 400 lb center and 350 lbs in bow. Malibu claims wedge to displace 400-1200 lbs depending on the angle of deployment. Edited August 29, 2013 by Fman