Hands down the best wave! Details and vid inside

[Bawshogg]

And this thread comes full circle, back to the SG vs. non-SG discussion. Is the poor horsey even recognizable as a horse at this point?

MAKE IT STOP! MAKE IT STOP ! PLEASE!

[jk13]

And this thread comes full circle, back to the SG vs. non-SG discussion. Is the poor horsey even recognizable as a horse at this point?

Pretty much a red streak on the highway at this point. Run over by countless weighted boats, engines, sideways mud flaps, and an F1 car pulling a 247 driven by a bunch of industry experts and internet jockeys being chased by a bicycle.

[Lance B. Johnson]

I was there that night, and I surfed as much as you did... no side ache here. In fact when I surf the first thing to get tired is my back quad (aka my brake). I'm not sure why you felt the need to pump so much up and down the wave, but I've had a lot of peeps on my wave on both sides and never seen so much pumping. My perception is that it's your board. Sometimes a given board is just not a good match for a given wave?? Just wondering as I demo'd the same board for almost a month, fully intending to buy one, but never really liked it despite all the hype.

Look, this whole thing is just "different strokes for different folks." Can't we just say that and move on?

As far as being handcuffed by my boat... aren't we all at some point? I mean, aren't you also handcuffed by your boat in the sense that it's not Bobby's boat?? There's always something better. Or do we just grow to prefer the wave we learned on?

Final comment on listed boats. I don't think it's cut and dry that they are BETTER. Some yes, I've acknowledged that dozens of time now (that's me praising you again Bobby). But I spent a week at Shasta recently with a 23 TWB that had some extra weight in it and tons of peeps on board. I was NOT impressed and did not like surfing it. By the end of the week the family who owned that MB all gravitated to my boat for surfing as well. I burned a lot more $6/gallon gas than they did last week. Likewise, when I owned an F21 I ran it a few times with a 750 in the trunk, a 450 on the seat, and a 450 in the bow and the wave was NOT good. So please don't assume that I haven't tried listed boats. I have, just don't like them much. Maybe none of those boats had the super secret magic formula. Maybe I'll like yours better, or BS's, or Bobby's (if he ever invites me).

All I can say is that my board is plenty fast enough for a 2005 vride with 2600 lbs. why isn't it fast enough behind yours? That's what I'm saying. Your board is much faster (I rode it) and your at least 20 lbs lighter. So I know exactly why you weren't tired.

And whatever it takes to get the point across.... This is my opinion and should never be viewed or taken personally. I hope you get that.

[TrickyNicky]

But what if the way they weight their boat is limiting to the amount or type of tricks that can be done? That's what I am arguing. If all I did was stand on a board and cruise, take some turns I'd be totally happy with almost any wave. Really I think that's some of the SG owners are going to be handcuffed when they decide its time to progress. I used to believe what your saying here but I don't buy it anymore.

Another point to this. The two times I've ridden behind a SG boat I was physically worked! When I rode IXFEs boat I finished with a side ache from all the pumping. That doesn't happen on either of the vrides I surf behind. A 4'10 soulcraft is just a little slow for that wave.

That said if people recognize the limitations of SG and still want it for the other benefits not listing and quick switching of sides..... I totally respect that. If all they do is cruise and are not interested in new tricks..... I get that. No prob.

Was thinking about this last night after some wobbly pops and....

If you really think about it a listed wave is just as limited (if not more) than a SG/NSS style wave. I understand the firmness and that it is easier or even only possible to perform certain tricks on a wave that we (some of us) have yet to see come from an un-listed boat. But the fact of the matter is, as the setups for non-listed boats get better and people learn on that style wave and progress the tricks are going to change. Transferring tricks and riding both sides is going to be huge. To put it simple, staying on a listed wave would turn you into the equivalent of a "heelside-hero." Sure, right now that is not the case, but with practice in weighting SG boats, practice riding a SG style wave and likely the advancement of new tech, it's bound to become a double wave sport where riders on a competitive level will have to show there skills riding all 4 directions (reg, goofy, reg-switch, goofy-switch) and preforming various tricks, showing comfort in all riding stance/waves.

Clearly it's not there yet, but it will come.

Also, I'll stand by bobby bright that although it may seem redundant to clarify that a SG wave is not the best or only way to do it, it can and will become useful to someone just reading along. There is hype about SG from both malibu and this site. All he is trying to accomplish (sorry to put words in your mouth) is to let people know when they read the "hand down best wave ever" thread that they don't NEED SG, or for that matter they MAY be better off without. If a little less hype on SG and a little more vocals that we've had recently, had happened a year ago, I could have saved myself a lot of time and a fair amount of $$ trying to build my own. But the hype was on DIY gates at the time. This is the exact reason I feel compelled to join in these convo's. Maybe we all know now but other ppl reading 1 or 2 threads ought to know that SG is not necessarily the best option and certainly isn't the only option.

Imagine riding a listed wave 3 years from now when your skills have improved and feeling like your SG boat was letting you down. I'm sure you'd all be pretty pissed having bought SG thinking it was the best. If that moment never comes than all the power to you, but don't take/make that decision for someone looking to get a new boat. Let them make the call, with these informed opinions from both sides of the equation.

[WakeGirl]

Pretty much a red streak on the highway at this point. Run over by countless weighted boats, engines, sideways mud flaps, and an F1 car pulling a 247 driven by a bunch of industry experts and internet jockeys being chased by a bicycle.

I almost blew coffee all over the monitor when I read that. Awesome post.

[demo9asx]

Final comment on listed boats. I don't think it's cut and dry that they are BETTER. Some yes, I've acknowledged that dozens of time now (that's me praising you again Bobby). But I spent a week at Shasta recently with a 23 TWB that had some extra weight in it and tons of peeps on board. I was NOT impressed and did not like surfing it. By the end of the week the family who owned that MB all gravitated to my boat for surfing as well. I burned a lot more $6/gallon gas than they did last week. Likewise, when I owned an F21 I ran it a few times with a 750 in the trunk, a 450 on the seat, and a 450 in the bow and the wave was NOT good. So please don't assume that I haven't tried listed boats. I have, just don't like them much. Maybe none of those boats had the super secret magic formula. Maybe I'll like yours better, or BS's, or Bobby's (if he ever invites me).

Maybe you just need to learn to tweak the wave on a listed boat and learn how to surf properly.

F21 with 900lbs in the trunk, 450lbs in the bow, surf side tank full and half on the non-surf side. Yeah, the wave looks pretty crappy and my buddy can't surf

Edited August 30, 2013 by demo9asx

[Afun]

afun, you can still have plenty of fun on your wave. Learn to ride, learn to turn. I don't think you need the biggest hardest fastest listed wave in the world to ride and have fun. The guys who are critical are pretty skilled.

I am learning to turn now. Ropeless, no problem. I was doing shuvs on my Razz, but would nose dive. I love buying all different types of boards. I also enjoy building the wave. It's all part of the sport. Heck, it's exciting to ride any wave that's not your own too.

This part of TN that I live in is pretty awesome when it comes to wake sports. I have seen and learned so much. Went to my first competition not too long ago. Bottom line...I am here to stay...God Willing!

[Bawshogg]

You realize a SHUV is a pretty advanced trick? It is when the board does a 360 under you but your body don't.

I'm confused. Thats not something most start with.

[shawndoggy]

can't a shuv be a 180 of the board?

(either way beyond my skill set)

[TrickyNicky]

can't a shuv be a 180 of the board?

(either way beyond my skill set)

pop shove it. I believe.

[demo9asx]

I guess he's just one of those that like to skip the easier tricks.

Edited August 30, 2013 by demo9asx

[Afun]

4000 pounds in a 2013 didn't really work for me. And yes it was evenly weighted probably 40/60? I don't know IXFE can help there.

Just thinking out loud. How much do you really want to bury these gates. I think it's about finding that sweet spot so the gate could show its full potential. I am starting to think maybe too much weight may have a diminishing effect on the gates.

Be prepared...this may be a dumb one...what will happen if you list a Surfgate boat to either the side where the gate come out of or the other side? I know you can't list it to the point the gate comes out of the water and has no effect. Just some Afun thoughts...

[Afun]

Sorry, I meant a slide...a shuv in my dreams

[demo9asx]

Well, why don't you experiment? Just for fun, borrow someone's 750s and list your boat (leave the wife at home). I know the VLX can produce really good surf wave listed especially on the goofy side. I know my 02 was way better on the goofy side and same with my buddy's 23 LSV.

Edited August 30, 2013 by demo9asx

[Bawshogg]

can't a shuv be a 180 of the board?

(either way beyond my skill set)

Yes, but is in the fashion of an ollie type trick where the board rotates underneath the rider . The board is kicked into rotation undeneath you, while you jump. Not and easy trick to learn right off the bat.

[Afun]

Well, why don't you experiment? Just for fun, borrow someone's 750s and list your boat (leave the wife at home). I know the VLX can produce really good surf wave listed especially on the goofy side. I know my 02 was way better on the goofy side and same with my buddy's 23 LSV.

To be honest, I am a little gun shy in listing my boat. I do not know what I am doing. Would not know how to avoid a roller, etc...

[TrickyNicky]

Just thinking out loud. How much do you really want to bury these gates. I think it's about finding that sweet spot so the gate could show its full potential. I am starting to think maybe too much weight may have a diminishing effect on the gates.

Be prepared...this may be a dumb one...what will happen if you list a Surfgate boat to either the side where the gate come out of or the other side? I know you can't list it to the point the gate comes out of the water and has no effect. Just some Afun thoughts...

When you list a boat the water ends up moving around the off-side corner. Ie there is a void of water in the corner. With my boat fully listed the SG can stick out entirely and not even touch the water. It's still below the water level but the water takes a big wide turn around the corner of the boat so it's a big whirlpool hole of sorts. I think thats why people like 60/40. a Bit of list will bring the gate up on the water level but not create that pocket void of water.

[Afun]

[demo9asx]

To be honest, I am a little gun shy in listing my boat. I do not know what I am doing. Would not know how to avoid a roller, etc...

Not asking you to list the boat beyond the rub rail. Throw a 750 in the locker, fill up your MLS surf side + bow and check out the surf wave. If you think the wave sucks then at least you have formed your own opinion based on real world test and not from some internet forum

[TrickyNicky]

Nope. This is another myth of SG. SG is just the EASY BUTTON for this. More advanced riders are already riding Toeside, Heelside and the fakie and switch variations of those behind listed boats. There is no need for a guy who can already ride Regular Toe, Switch Heel and both fakie variations of those to yell at the driver to switch waves to prove he can ride Regular Heel, Switch Toe and the fakie variations of that. Moot point. Heck, I'm no pro and I can already ride ropeless Reg Toe, Switch Heel, and fakie heel (kinda sketchily).......

I too can ride all 4 variations, just like I can carve on a wakeboard heel and toes as well as both switch. but I can only clear the wake heelside regular. That doesn't make me a good or well rounded rider. So although yes a listed boat can perform both, it won't be in the same set and transfers won't be happening. Sure its no big deal now, but I'd be surprised if the future of wakesurfing doesn't entail riders to ride all stances as well as transfer tricks. It's not there yet but there is no reason for it not to go there. People have to progress and push the limits of the sport, eventually a listed wave will fall short of what is possible.

[Afun]

Not asking you to list the boat beyond the rub rail. Throw a 750 in the locker, fill up your MLS surf side + bow and check out the surf wave. If you think the wave sucks then at least you have formed your own opinion based on real world test and not from some internet forum

I don't have a sac, but I may try someone's. I already got a private message and a invitation.

[shawndoggy]

could you just double stack your wedge sacks on one side?

[Afun]

could you just double stack your wedge sacks on one side?

How will I fill them...they are attached to the PNP hoses

[shawndoggy]

leave one as is, put the regular tsunami pump plug back in the other one? You don't have the plugs that came with the bags?

[demo9asx]

There you go, shawn has a better plan. Just pile one of your 550 on top of the other one and hand fill them with your pump. Just remember not to fill the port side pnp LOL. Not the best way to try your bilge pump

Edited August 30, 2013 by demo9asx