Hands down the best wave! Details and vid inside

[Afun]

I'll bet you he burns less gas than a SG equipped boat surfing.

I think your argument will be better served if you compare the same hulls...one with Surfgate and the other no surfgate

[Bobby Light]

I think your argument will be better served if you compare the same hulls...one with Surfgate and the other no surfgate

No your boat against his, take the bet.

[shawndoggy]

really apples to oranges unless you at least have the same drivetrains to compare.

[TrickyNicky]

really apples to oranges unless you at least have the same drivetrains to compare.

Not to mention prop. This is another irrelevant argument. I'm not going to buy or not buy SG based on gas consumption (unless it was drastically different)

[Afun]

No your boat against his, take the bet.

I understand your argument. I am not really that happy with my gas consumption that I am going gung ho over it. I can surf for a very long time, but once I hit that throttle hard and for a long time it consumes the gas pretty good.

[Bawshogg]

Even the guys that don't have surf gate on their boats paid a lot of money.

A 247 is a very big boat...therefore very big wave. With 14 people crammed to the surf side and no sacs...it better be a surf machine. You should also keep the pump station near.

The other common theme here is...by coincidence....everyone knocking down Surfgate does not have a Surfgate boat or owns an older Malibu...I am calling it the way I see it

Your totally right. I only wish I could be baller enough to afford a SG equipped boat.

[wakesetter8796]

Slightly off topic but we are going to have 10 people in the boat plus stock ballast plus 300# of lead that is in the bow right now. Would it be more effective in the back corner and then 3 100# people in the bow?

[shawndoggy]

Slightly off topic but we are going to have 10 people in the boat plus stock ballast plus 300# of lead that is in the bow right now. Would it be more effective in the back corner and then 3 100# people in the bow?

most definitely YES.

[wakesetter8796]

Awesome. We will try that, thanks.

[Afun]

Your totally right. I only wish I could be baller enough to afford a SG equipped boat.

This post I don't understand. Did you read what I wrote..."Even the people that don't have Surgate paid a lot of money for their boats". Non-Surfgaters are ballers too.

Out of all the Surfgate non-believers you are the most passionate one. Has a Surfgate roller affected your wake once or twice?

What will happen if Malibu decides to make Surfgate a permanent option?

[wakesetter8796]

I think he is being sarcastic.

[Bawshogg]

Did you read what I posted earlier? I dont hate SG for the 900'th time. I would ride it, and know the whole time I could do better. I had the option to have whatever I wanted this season. If that aint putting your money where you mouth is per say....I don't know what is.

The thing that just keeps getting stated is this, "the ones that don't have it hate on it".....But almost everyone that does NOT PREFER has tried both weighted vs gated ......even multiple times. Have you?

If SG beomes standard and that's all you get, HMMM....I'll cross that road when I get to it. Maybe Ill keep my 247 for 20 years......or I can look at the 15 other manufactures that will fit my needs at the time.

[IXFE]

This is what I have been trying to get across the whole time in this SG vs. NON SG debate. Somehow I am labelled as a SG hater. I don't hate it, I just dont buy into all the hype that surrounds it. It works for some. All I want others to know is that SG is not the only and best way to create the type of wave some of us are looking for.

Well said Nicky. And yes the VTX wave that it looks like you have is very similar to what I had. I would rather ride your wave than the SG waves I have tried. This might change in the years to come, and in no way am I saying I wouldn't jump behind a SG boat again, just right now I prefer weighted vs. gated.

Bobby, are you talking about Malibu corporate hype? Or are you talking about hype from users on this forum? I hope it's not the latter because as I sit here and think about the vast majority of BuCrew Surf Gate guys (myself, Afun, Chatt, Fman, pkh, therog, sdk, etc.) I don't think any of us have ever claimed that SG makes the BEST wave or that it makes a BETTER wave than a listed boat. I think what you have heard us say is that they are GOOD waves for what we expect and that we enjoy some of the unique features. Other than the OP who started this thread with this ridiculous title (a guy who doesn't even own SG), I don't think I've read any level-headed SG owner on the forum claim it was the BEST. We're just guys who like our boats and like our waves and are trying to get the most out of them and enjoy the sport.

Edited August 30, 2013 by IXFE

[Lance B. Johnson]

Funny how many people think there is only one way to weight a boat. Most times it's their way and they like it because they are used to riding it. Maybe they have experimented to get the best wave and are happy with it. If a person wants to learn how others do it, they can listen and learn. Many people don't want to learn and are completely happy. It's all good. No need to force your way on someone that doesn't want to learn from other's experience.

Now for another way...The pic below is really old as far as surfing goes. My dealer gave me the first 247 to arrive in Texas back in the time the 247 boats were introduced to see how we liked it and to give a review of the boat. Guess how many sacs were in that boat in the pic. Absolutely none. No sacs but we did have 14 people on the surf side. The 247 is a surf machine! To expect a V-ride or VLX or even a 23 to be able to make a wave like that with the same weighting is crazy. Each boat will be weighted differently. Each owner will like a different wave. If somebody doesn't weight their boat the same as you, it's not wrong, just different.

But what if the way they weight their boat is limiting to the amount or type of tricks that can be done? That's what I am arguing. If all I did was stand on a board and cruise, take some turns I'd be totally happy with almost any wave. Really I think that's some of the SG owners are going to be handcuffed when they decide its time to progress. I used to believe what your saying here but I don't buy it anymore.

Another point to this. The two times I've ridden behind a SG boat I was physically worked! When I rode IXFEs boat I finished with a side ache from all the pumping. That doesn't happen on either of the vrides I surf behind. A 4'10 soulcraft is just a little slow for that wave.

That said if people recognize the limitations of SG and still want it for the other benefits not listing and quick switching of sides..... I totally respect that. If all they do is cruise and are not interested in new tricks..... I get that. No prob.

[Afun]

Did you read what I posted earlier? I dont hate SG for the 900'th time. I would ride it, and know the whole time I could do better. I had the option to have whatever I wanted this season. If that aint putting your money where you mouth is per say....I don't know what is.

The thing that just keeps getting stated is this, "the ones that don't have it hate on it".....But almost everyone that does NOT PREFER has tried both weighted vs gated ......even multiple times. Have you?

If SG beomes standard and that's all you get, HMMM....I'll cross that road when I get to it. Maybe Ill keep my 247 for 20 years......or I can look at the 15 other manufactures that will fit my needs at the time.

The moment I tried to list my old boat, my wife put a stop to it. So I ended up with a new Surfgate boat. With a 247 and its wave you will be pretty hard to please. With that being said, I would like to surf a listed boat. I would really, really like to surf a listed 247.

I am still very excited and have high expectations on how my wave will react to the additional bow weight. I truly enjoy this debat. It's fun....and yes...you, Bobby Deniro bring many different facets to the conversation

[TrickyNicky]

Did you read what I posted earlier? I dont hate SG for the 900'th time. I would ride it, and know the whole time I could do better. I had the option to have whatever I wanted this season. If that aint putting your money where you mouth is per say....I don't know what is.

The thing that just keeps getting stated is this, "the ones that don't have it hate on it".....But almost everyone that does NOT PREFER has tried both weighted vs gated ......even multiple times. Have you?

If SG beomes standard and that's all you get, HMMM....I'll cross that road when I get to it. Maybe Ill keep my 247 for 20 years......or I can look at the 15 other manufactures that will fit my needs at the time.

There ALL going to SG. Its the wave of the future...get on it or be left behind.

The reason I love SG and NSS is because of where it's going to take us. It's the first real step away from just ballast that is surf specific. When I was building mine I brainstormed a whole bunch of ideas that I personally could never invest enough money or time into. For one, why don't the gates allow you to adjust the angle of attack in the horizontal plane. Ie rotate it up and down so it diverts water up and/or down? What about a curved gate? Nothing else on a boat is straight, I highly doubt a straight gate is the best shape. What if you open the non-surfside gate and than were able to open the surfside gate from the boat edge so it also funnels the water behind the boat. Ie both gates are always parallel? Another thing I asked was why didn't they make it apart of the hull? Ie on the side of the boat it looks flush and than extends out. Why have it hanging off the back, it just looks stupid. Than there are ways to direct water or drag around the hull like having holes or "tunnels" through the bottom or side of the hull and out the back. You open the gate/hole and water begins to get drawn through the side or bottom of the boat hull and out the transom subsequently pulling the hull in that direction. The options are endless and as more R&D gets put into this we are going to see some really cool and well thought out designs. Certainly better than a couple add-on gates or plates. Moral of the story is listing the boat is not THE way to make a great surf wave in the future. But SG isn't either!

Edited August 30, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[sdk]

Funny how many people think there is only one way to weight a boat. Most times it's their way and they like it because they are used to riding it. Maybe they have experimented to get the best wave and are happy with it. If a person wants to learn how others do it, they can listen and learn. Many people don't want to learn and are completely happy. It's all good. No need to force your way on someone that doesn't want to learn from other's experience.

Now for another way...The pic below is really old as far as surfing goes. My dealer gave me the first 247 to arrive in Texas back in the time the 247 boats were introduced to see how we liked it and to give a review of the boat. Guess how many sacs were in that boat in the pic. Absolutely none. No sacs but we did have 14 people on the surf side. The 247 is a surf machine! To expect a V-ride or VLX or even a 23 to be able to make a wave like that with the same weighting is crazy. Each boat will be weighted differently. Each owner will like a different wave. If somebody doesn't weight their boat the same as you, it's not wrong, just different.

But what if the way they weight their boat is limiting to the amount or type of tricks that can be done? That's what I am arguing. If all I did was stand on a board and cruise, take some turns I'd be totally happy with almost any wave. Really I think that's some of the SG owners are going to be handcuffed when they decide its time to progress. I used to believe what your saying here but I don't buy it anymore.

Another point to this. The two times I've ridden behind a SG boat I was physically worked! When I rode IXFEs boat I finished with a side ache from all the pumping. That doesn't happen on either of the vrides I surf behind. A 4'10 soulcraft is just a little slow for that wave.

That said if people recognize the limitations of SG and still want it for the other benefits not listing and quick switching of sides..... I totally respect that. If all they do is cruise and are not interested in new tricks..... I get that. No prob.

Not sure how big you are, but I have a little 20' VTX with SG (picture how small the wave is), and it surfs fine with a 4'6" pro danielo or a 4'3" inland surfer moss. Not exhausted from pumping and not just cruising either (although maybe my bag of tricks isn't as big as yours).

[Lance B. Johnson]

Even the guys that don't have surf gate on their boats paid a lot of money.

A 247 is a very big boat...therefore very big wave. With 14 people crammed to the surf side and no sacs...it better be a surf machine. You should also keep the pump station near.

The other common theme here is...by coincidence....everyone knocking down Surfgate does not have a Surfgate boat or owns an older Malibu...I am calling it the way I see it

Afun- I know for a fact three of us have ridden behind both SG boats and listed boats. And of the same three people we all agree that the SG wave was too soft. Bobby was ready to slap down the cash on a SG boat. Totally ready. Why did he go home with a brand new 2012?

All this aside, there is one reason I love SG. If the market becomes flooded with used boats it should make it easier to get that LSV I've been wanting. Heck I can use it as a bargaining chip, "naw the price needs to be lower on that used 2012. it doesn't have SG..... "

I need to shut up and let everyone believe SG is great!!!

[Afun]

Afun- I know for a fact three of us have ridden behind both SG boats and listed boats. And of the same three people we all agree that the SG wave was too soft. Bobby was ready to slap down the cash on a SG boat. Totally ready. Why did he go home with a brand new 2012?

All this aside, there is one reason I love SG. If the market becomes flooded with used boats it should make it easier to get that LSV I've been wanting. Heck I can use it as a bargaining chip, "naw the price needs to be lower on that used 2012. it doesn't have SG..... "

I need to shut up and let everyone believe SG is great!!!

You don't think I will be able to firm up the wave with a 1000lbs sac (probably fill up to 600)?

[IXFE]

But what if the way they weight their boat is limiting to the amount or type of tricks that can be done? That's what I am arguing. If all I did was stand on a board and cruise, take some turns I'd be totally happy with almost any wave. Really I think that's some of the SG owners are going to be handcuffed when they decide its time to progress. I used to believe what your saying here but I don't buy it anymore.

Another point to this. The two times I've ridden behind a SG boat I was physically worked! When I rode IXFEs boat I finished with a side ache from all the pumping. That doesn't happen on either of the vrides I surf behind. A 4'10 soulcraft is just a little slow for that wave.

That said if people recognize the limitations of SG and still want it for the other benefits not listing and quick switching of sides..... I totally respect that. If all they do is cruise and are not interested in new tricks..... I get that. No prob.

I was there that night, and I surfed as much as you did... no side ache here. In fact when I surf the first thing to get tired is my back quad (aka my brake). I'm not sure why you felt the need to pump so much up and down the wave, but I've had a lot of peeps on my wave on both sides and never seen so much pumping. My perception is that it's your board. Sometimes a given board is just not a good match for a given wave?? Just wondering as I demo'd the same board for almost a month, fully intending to buy one, but never really liked it despite all the hype.

Look, this whole thing is just "different strokes for different folks." Can't we just say that and move on?

As far as being handcuffed by my boat... aren't we all at some point? I mean, aren't you also handcuffed by your boat in the sense that it's not Bobby's boat?? There's always something better. Or do we just grow to prefer the wave we learned on?

Final comment on listed boats. I don't think it's cut and dry that they are BETTER. Some yes, I've acknowledged that dozens of time now (that's me praising you again Bobby). But I spent a week at Shasta recently with a 23 TWB that had some extra weight in it and tons of peeps on board. I was NOT impressed and did not like surfing it. By the end of the week the family who owned that MB all gravitated to my boat for surfing as well. I burned a lot more $6/gallon gas than they did last week. Likewise, when I owned an F21 I ran it a few times with a 750 in the trunk, a 450 on the seat, and a 450 in the bow and the wave was NOT good. So please don't assume that I haven't tried listed boats. I have, just don't like them much. Maybe none of those boats had the super secret magic formula. Maybe I'll like yours better, or BS's, or Bobby's (if he ever invites me).

[WakeGirl]

And this thread comes full circle, back to the SG vs. non-SG discussion. Is the poor horsey even recognizable as a horse at this point?

[Lance B. Johnson]

Not sure how big you are, but I have a little 20' VTX with SG (picture how small the wave is), and it surfs fine with a 4'6" pro danielo or a 4'3" inland surfer moss. Not exhausted from pumping and not just cruising either (although maybe my bag of tricks isn't as big as yours).

I guess the question is how big would your bag of tricks be if you had a firm wave? At the time I rode the SG boats I was 215. It was difficult to gain speed down the line because the wave was soft. Pumping didn't yield more speed the way it does usually.

And I kinda get why a skim style rider might be ok with it. How many of your tricks require speed? How many need pop?

I'm not saying I'm a great surfer. Not by a long shot. What I'm saying is that I couldn't progress behind a SG boat.

[Bawshogg]

Bobby, are you talking about Malibu corporate hype? Or are you talking about hype from users on this forum? I hope it's not the latter because as I sit here and think about the vast majority of BuCrew Surf Gate guys (myself, Afun, Chatt, Fman, pkh, therog, sdk, etc.) I don't think any of us have ever claimed that SG makes the BEST wave or that it makes a BETTER wave than a listed boat. I think what you have heard us say is that they are GOOD waves for what we expect and that we enjoy some of the unique features. Other than the OP who started this thread with this ridiculous title (a guy who doesn't even own SG), I don't think I've read any level-headed SG owner on the forum claim it was the BEST. We're just guys who like our boats and like our waves and are trying to get the most out of them and enjoy the sport.

Honestly a little of both. Corporate has stated it's a "game changer" how many times? Maybe for you and the majority of families.....Yes. It adds a different aspect. We've been over that a few hundred times now.

There is also a few that think....."If you don't have SG......you aint S%$!" Most of that attitude comes from the guys that dont really know.

This will be the 10th time now I have said. " IF you are happy with your wave, great! I am happy for you and glad you like it" . I got no beef with you guys, would ride with all you all any time. We have differnt ideas of what the BEST wave is. Big deal.

What it all comes down to is this. Not everyone buys the Lambo. There are plenty of Camry driver's out there.

If you like the Camry and it fits you better. Great, there are still a few guys that want the best in performance. For those guys.......The lambo.

Dont roll up to the line with your Camry and rev it up. Thats what the MORE ON that started this thread is looking for.

[Lance B. Johnson]

You don't think I will be able to firm up the wave with a 1000lbs sac (probably fill up to 600)?

4000 pounds in a 2013 didn't really work for me. And yes it was evenly weighted probably 40/60? I don't know IXFE can help there.

[shawndoggy]

afun, you can still have plenty of fun on your wave. Learn to ride, learn to turn. I don't think you need the biggest hardest fastest listed wave in the world to ride and have fun. The guys who are critical are pretty skilled.