Hands down the best wave! Details and vid inside

[Lance B. Johnson]

tricky that looks a hell of a lot better then the vtx i tried, teh vtx was putting out a much crappier wave then that, i think thats nice although i cant judge the length by the pic

Exactly. They need to be weighted correctly and only a few people get it. That's EXACTLY why some people think a SG wave is a good wave. 1. They don't know any better. 2. They never learned to properly weight a listed boat.

Given you ballast setup I now know for a fact that I wouldn't be happy with your wave. FACT.

[demo9asx]

He must have forgotten to mention the custom wedge that adds 2000lbs of downforce instead of 1000lbs. It's special only for people in Quebec.

[Malibuzer]

This may be the most ridiculous bunch of crap I have read on here. This is not a translation issue or a Quebec versus the rest of the world issue. This is an issue of someone who is "smarter" than all the people on this forum who have years, not hours of experience in these boats. I am relatively new to Malibu boats and have almost 1000 hours of time on my three boats.

We are all wrong and our opinion does not count..

Go surf and have fun.

[Fman]

I was told 250 each in the rear, 500 center and 350 front. That's in a 12 vlx though. Not sure if it would be different between 12 and 13.

I'm pretty sure its 1250 lbs total hard tanks for a 12 and 13. Your config adds up to 1350... not that it really matters either way. I know the Malibu spec sheet on there site is inaccurate, they are listing fuel capacity at 41 gallons... my 2011 had 48 stamped on the tank and my 2013 has 44 stamped on it. So go figure, who really knows?

[IXFE]

Finally a picture of the 550 Fly High Sacs. As you can see, you still have space for storage. The wedge part of the sac goes under the rear seat nicely.

I'm looking at this picture and wondering if the bag placement isn't part of your issue (I know you don't think you have an issue... I'm just saying that your wave could be bigger). Notice how the weight is not pushed all the way to the back of the boat. I'm not saying it makes a huge difference, but it may be a factor.

Why not move that bag back? You don't have to use every inch of hose Malibu gave you. You can trim back that rear drain hose to get the bag closer to the back wall of the locker.

[IXFE]

Good song. IMO, 750's will overweight the VLX. Closer to needing to reprop. More bow rise and a need for even more bow weight. No thank you, I will do fine like this. The new bow sac will be the final piece to the puzzle for my wave.

My experience with 750's in a VLX directly contradicts your statement. The truth is you have no idea what 750's are like. You are just speculating.

Bow rise is not an issue for me with some weight in the bow (even just a few peeps), and you already said you are buying 1,000 lbs, so you would be fine even with the bow sack 1/2 full.

The other issue I have with the Fly High bags is the 3/4" openings. The Malibu plumbing is all 1 1/8" diameter hoses. The bags you have are constricting the water flow and likely filling slower than the system would otherwise allow. This is why the Straightline Sumo Sacks are a better choice, in my opinion... the openings match the Malibu pipes perfectly.

Finally, why limit yourself with 550 bags when the lockers can clearly handle more? Nobody ever says I have to run my bags full all the time. If my bow is empty, I can leave some out and have the equivalent of 550's just like you. Or when I run more bow ballast or have more people up front I can fill 'em all the way up. Or I have the option of running them full while dialing the wedge back. The point is I have options. With the 550's you don't.

As your new internet friend (seriously not being mean here), I would pick up a set of Sumo 750's. You could easily sell your Fly Highs on WakeWorld... after factoring in the resale on the old bags the entire project would probably cost you less than a pair of Sperry's.

[IXFE]

Exactly. They need to be weighted correctly and only a few people get it. That's EXACTLY why some people think a SG wave is a good wave. 1. They don't know any better. 2. They never learned to properly weight a listed boat.

Given you ballast setup I now know for a fact that I wouldn't be happy with your wave. FACT.

I'm confused, Mike. When you surfed my wave you were very complimentary and seemed to think it was a "good" wave, just different and hard for you to get used to (although I thought you surfed great). Were you just being polite? Because ever since that day I've only heard you slam it and the people who like it.

[Afun]

I'm looking at this picture and wondering if the bag placement isn't part of your issue (I know you don't think you have an issue... I'm just saying that your wave could be bigger). Notice how the weight is not pushed all the way to the back of the boat. I'm not saying it makes a huge difference, but it may be a factor.

Why not move that bag back? You don't have to use every inch of hose Malibu gave you. You can trim back that rear drain hose to get the bag closer to the back wall of the locker.

The bag is designed like this. The wedge part goes under the seats. I already cut plenty off that rear hose. If I push back any further the hose would kink. I don't see me gaining any additional advantages by moving these bags just a few inches. The bags fill just fine, and they drain even faster with the two drain ports. No issues at all. All quick releases fit nicely.

I will take video from the swim platform, and I will recruit a really small person to surf my wave. I will also use a wide angle lens to make everything look bigger. Just Kidding. I will try my best to show what this combination of bags could do. IMO, 750's in each locker just a bit much for a VLX. 600 sumos maybe a better choice. Some on the Internet are saying those Sumos are not holding up. What's the verdict?

[Afun]

I was told 250 each in the rear, 500 center and 350 front. That's in a 12 vlx though. Not sure if it would be different between 12 and 13.

I agree with Fman. It's 400 in the center tank.

[IXFE]

The bag is designed like this. The wedge part goes under the seats. I already cut plenty off that rear hose. If I push back any further the hose would kink. I don't see me gaining any additional advantages by moving these bags just a few inches. The bags fill just fine, and they drain even faster with the two drain ports. No issues at all. All quick releases fit nicely.

I will take video from the swim platform, and I will recruit a really small person to surf my wave. I will also use a wide angle lens to make everything look bigger. Just Kidding. I will try my best to show what this combination of bags could do. IMO, 750's in each locker just a bit much for a VLX. 600 sumos maybe a better choice. Some on the Internet are saying those Sumos are not holding up. What's the verdict?

no issues here with my Sumos. where'd you read that?

[TrickyNicky]

Afun,

After seeing your pic I can honestly appreciate the 550 wedge sac. The shape more than the size lends itself very nicely to the rear lockers and I can see where you are getting extra spce. With 750's in there you still have a good ammount of space but it is all on top of the bag since they are rectangular not wedge shape. It does look like a nice setup and offers a nice ammount of storage. That being said, both 750's and moving the bags back WILL make a significant difference. Seriously, thats 550lbs of weight. Imagine 3-4 people sitting on the sunpad feet in or sitting on the sunpad feet on the swim platform. It makes a BIG difference. Subsequentlty:

ppl on surfside seats < ppl on gunwale < ppl leaning out from gunwale (non-SG)

OR

ppl on swim platform > ppl on sunpad at back > ppl on sunpad feet in > ppl on rear bench

All of course depending where you want the weight but 1-2 ft can make a BIG difference.

Also I think 750's are the perfect size for any of the rear lockers as they fill 90% of the way and still offer a good ammount of storage. others have mentioned you don't have to fill them either. I'm not saying you should go buy 750's but don't be ignorant to there effectiveness over a 550. If you don't think 750's would improve your wake significantly than we best be taking our shirts off!

[TrickyNicky]

Afun,

After seeing your pic I can honestly appreciate the 550 wedge sac. The shape more than the size lends itself very nicely to the rear lockers and I can see where you are getting extra spce. With 750's in there you still have a good ammount of space but it is all on top of the bag since they are rectangular not wedge shape. It does look like a nice setup and offers a nice ammount of storage. That being said, both 750's and moving the bags back WILL make a significant difference. Seriously, thats 550lbs of weight. Imagine 3-4 people sitting on the sunpad feet in or sitting on the sunpad feet on the swim platform. It makes a BIG difference. Subsequentlty:

ppl on surfside seats < ppl on gunwale < ppl leaning out from gunwale (non-SG)

OR

ppl on swim platform > ppl on sunpad at back > ppl on sunpad feet in > ppl on rear bench

All of course depending where you want the weight but 1-2 ft can make a BIG difference.

Also I think 750's are the perfect size for any of the rear lockers as they fill 90% of the way and still offer a good ammount of storage. others have mentioned you don't have to fill them either. I'm not saying you should go buy 750's but don't be ignorant to there effectiveness over a 550. If you don't think 750's would improve your wake significantly than we best be taking our shirts off!

BTW, for those of you that are still learning about weighting boats, this is a key credential that people always seem to ignore. Little differences in placement of weight can make a difference. The more picky you become about having your weight in the right spot the better and more consistent you will find your waves. So many people are willing to ignore the one 100 lb person on the non-surf side (thats a 200 lb difference) or someone sitting up at the observers seat when they should be sitting one seat further back. Every bit can make a difference and the less weight your running the more crucial it is to have your resources in the correct placement to yield the best results.

[Lance B. Johnson]

I'm confused, Mike. When you surfed my wave you were very complimentary and seemed to think it was a "good" wave, just different and hard for you to get used to (although I thought you surfed great). Were you just being polite? Because ever since that day I've only heard you slam it and the people who like it.

Sure it worked and was clean. But realistically I could only pull off a handful of the stuff I can do behind a 21 vride either mine or -BS-. Then you consider that i am comparing a 21 vride to a 21 vlx and it becomes an apples to apples comparison. Then throw in that we only put around 2600 in the vride.

Look I came away from there kinda confused. I added up the weight in my head a couple times because I couldn't believe we had 4k in that thing. Compared to what I'm used to the wave was soft and lacked push in the back of the wave. I couldn't even come close to an Ariel. It was really just a meatier version of the 13 LSV that I rode behind.

Surf gate is great for the people that want simplicity and not to list their boats. It's great for the people that never took the time to really learn how to weight a listed boat.

-BS- and Bobby and I are very picky and hard to please when it comes to waves.

And finally regardless of all this I had a good time on your boat (it's the best looking vlx I've seen). You'd be welcome on mine anytime. I can speak for -BS- and say he'd have you out as well.

Edit: as far as bashing people, I don't see it that way. I never resort to personal attacks I just state my opinion. No one here should feel I am bashing.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Ruffdog

[Afun]

no issues here with my Sumos. where'd you read that?

Various threads...with the use of my Google degree

The way I placed the 550's is the correct way. Taking advantage of the wedge under the seat. Now the drain hose closest to the bow will not reach if I cut the rear hose more to accommodate placement all the way to the rear. The bags are helping in digging the hole. They are working. Now lets see how aggressive this wake could get with the addition of the bow weight. My only complaint about adding the PNP is that the wave did get a little softer. Overall, Malibus seem to like the weight in the front and they do lack the size in ballast from factory. Ths could be a nice area of improvement for them.

[TrickyNicky]

^^^(Ruffdog's comments) Does this not solidify that the GS vs Non-SG debate is opinion. Both make waves, both make waves that are surfable. But they make DIFFERENT waves and DIFFERENT ppl will like each. Lets thicken some skin, if your happy with your wake than don't worry about, additionally don't be afraid/shy to try someone elses setup. They make different waves and you can learn something from other setups good or bad.

If someone in a response offered to take me surfing I wouldn't refuse, but I'd be hard pressed to find a wave as good as mine. I'm still going to have fun but it doesn't mean I have to switch boats, surf setups etc.

Edited August 30, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[Bawshogg]

This is what I have been trying to get across the whole time in this SG vs. NON SG debate. Somehow I am labelled as a SG hater. I don't hate it, I just dont buy into all the hype that surrounds it. It works for some. All I want others to know is that SG is not the only and best way to create the type of wave some of us are looking for.

Well said Nicky. And yes the VTX wave that it looks like you have is very similar to what I had. I would rather ride your wave than the SG waves I have tried. This might change in the years to come, and in no way am I saying I wouldn't jump behind a SG boat again, just right now I prefer weighted vs. gated.

[Afun]

Sure it worked and was clean. But realistically I could only pull off a handful of the stuff I can do behind a 21 vride either mine or -BS-. Then you consider that i am comparing a 21 vride to a 21 vlx and it becomes an apples to apples comparison. Then throw in that we only put around 2600 in the vride.

Look I came away from there kinda confused. I added up the weight in my head a couple times because I couldn't believe we had 4k in that thing. Compared to what I'm used to the wave was soft and lacked push in the back of the wave. I couldn't even come close to an Ariel. It was really just a meatier version of the 13 LSV that I rode behind.

Surf gate is great for the people that want simplicity and not to list their boats. It's great for the people that never took the time to really learn how to weight a listed boat.

-BS- and Bobby and I are very picky and hard to please when it comes to waves.

And finally regardless of all this I had a good time on your boat (it's the best looking vlx I've seen). You'd be welcome on mine anytime. I can speak for -BS- and say he'd have you out as well.

Edit: as far as bashing people, I don't see it that way. I never resort to personal attacks I just state my opinion. No one here should feel I am bashing.

Good Post. How much weight did you guys put in the bow?

[Ronnie]

Funny how many people think there is only one way to weight a boat. Most times it's their way and they like it because they are used to riding it. Maybe they have experimented to get the best wave and are happy with it. If a person wants to learn how others do it, they can listen and learn. Many people don't want to learn and are completely happy. It's all good. No need to force your way on someone that doesn't want to learn from other's experience.

Now for another way...The pic below is really old as far as surfing goes. My dealer gave me the first 247 to arrive in Texas back in the time the 247 boats were introduced to see how we liked it and to give a review of the boat. Guess how many sacs were in that boat in the pic. Absolutely none. No sacs but we did have 14 people on the surf side. The 247 is a surf machine! To expect a V-ride or VLX or even a 23 to be able to make a wave like that with the same weighting is crazy. Each boat will be weighted differently. Each owner will like a different wave. If somebody doesn't weight their boat the same as you, it's not wrong, just different.

[demo9asx]

The bag is designed like this. The wedge part goes under the seats. I already cut plenty off that rear hose. If I push back any further the hose would kink. I don't see me gaining any additional advantages by moving these bags just a few inches. The bags fill just fine, and they drain even faster with the two drain ports. No issues at all. All quick releases fit nicely.

I will take video from the swim platform, and I will recruit a really small person to surf my wave. I will also use a wide angle lens to make everything look bigger. Just Kidding. I will try my best to show what this combination of bags could do. IMO, 750's in each locker just a bit much for a VLX. 600 sumos maybe a better choice. Some on the Internet are saying those Sumos are not holding up. What's the verdict?

Afun, I have a 900, 450 and a bunch of 125 sumo bags and they seem to hold up just fine.

[Bawshogg]

Funny how many people think there is only one way to weight a boat. Most times it's their way and they like it because they are used to riding it. Maybe they have experimented to get the best wave and are happy with it. If a person wants to learn how others do it, they can listen and learn. Many people don't want to learn and are completely happy. It's all good. No need to force your way on someone that doesn't want to learn from other's experience.

Now for another way...The pic below is really old as far as surfing goes. My dealer gave me the first 247 to arrive in Texas back in the time the 247 boats were introduced to see how we liked it and to give a review of the boat. Guess how many sacs were in that boat in the pic. Absolutely none. No sacs but we did have 14 people on the surf side. The 247 is a surf machine! To expect a V-ride or VLX or even a 23 to be able to make a wave like that with the same weighting is crazy. Each boat will be weighted differently. Each owner will like a different wave. If somebody doesn't weight their boat the same as you, it's not wrong, just different.

HANDS DOWN RONNIE!

[demo9asx]

Funny how many people think there is only one way to weight a boat. Most times it's their way and they like it because they are used to riding it. Maybe they have experimented to get the best wave and are happy with it. If a person wants to learn how others do it, they can listen and learn. Many people don't want to learn and are completely happy. It's all good. No need to force your way on someone that doesn't want to learn from other's experience.

The problem is sometimes people get defensive when other criticize the wave on their boat and it seems very pronounced with SG owners. Yeah, you spent a lot of $$ for the new boat and would like to think you have a great wave but the fact is that is not what SG is all about. The main selling point is the ease of switching and that's about it. Heck, if my family surf and I have the need to keep switching back and forth, I might have to get one.

Until then, I am more than happy with my listed wave and run a lot less weight

Edited August 30, 2013 by demo9asx

[Afun]

The problem is sometimes people get defensive when other criticize the wave on their boat and it seems very pronounced with SG owners. Yeah, you spent a lot of $$ for the new boat and would like to think you have a great wave but the fact is that is not what SG is all about. The main selling point is the ease of switching and that's about it. Heck, if my family surf and I have the need to keep switching back and forth, I might have to get one.

Until then, I am more than happy with my listed wave and run a lot less weight

Even the guys that don't have surf gate on their boats paid a lot of money.

A 247 is a very big boat...therefore very big wave. With 14 people crammed to the surf side and no sacs...it better be a surf machine. You should also keep the pump station near.

The other common theme here is...by coincidence....everyone knocking down Surfgate does not have a Surfgate boat or owns an older Malibu...I am calling it the way I see it

Edited August 30, 2013 by Afun

[Bobby Light]

Even the guys that don't have surf gate on their boats paid a lot of money.

A 247 is a very big boat...therefore very big wave. With 14 people crammed to the surf side and no sacs...it better be a surf machine. You should also keep the pump station near.

The other common theme here is...by coincidence....everyone knocking down Surfgate does not have a Surfgate boat or owns an older Malibu...I am calling it the way I see it

I'll bet you he burns less gas than a SG equipped boat surfing.

[sdk]

I think the defensiveness goes both ways (no more pronounced for SG owners vs non-SG). I have surf gates but happen to believe listing creates a bigger and better wave, but it seems to me (which is an opinion of course - shake my head that i even have to clarify that) any time a SG owner gets on here and talks about how much they love their SGs, non-SG owners (not all of them of course) jump on them for their ignorance as to how much better listing is and their ignorance as to how to properly weight and list a boat - as that's the only possible way they could actually like their SG wave better. Maybe SG owners are defensive about spending all that money on an "inferior" wave, but maybe non-SG owners are defensive about not having the latest (and greatest?) in surf technology. All of this is just my opinion or observations, of course - which as a new poster I'm not sure I'm allowed to have.

[shawndoggy]

as for where to put the weight.... the farther away from the center, the greater the effect if what you are trying to do is get the boat off axis (whether side to side or front to back). I totally get what nicky is laying down, and afun, it DOES make a difference in the back of the locker vs the front.

That is a lot of why bobby b's listed wave is so good, because he has a bunch of lead stacked in that back corner, which REALLY digs the corner in.

wave shape depends on two big things: displacement (how big of a hole you punch in the water over all) and hull orientation (how the water comes up after being displaced). Even if you are displacing the same amount of water with the same amount of weight, changing the hull orientation can sure change the wave.