Direction of boat design/pricing

[85 Barefoot]

I looked at the Ride/Axis series and no offense to folks who own them, it is quite a difference in material compared to the wakesetter series. It is almost like walking into a BMW dealer and looking at the basic stripped down 3-series vs. the M3.

No offense here either, but the axis vinyl is the EXACT same as Malibu's. Same glass, same construction, same workers, same everything. sure, the components and design is simpler and saves costs so it won't be confused with a wakesetter but in terms of raw "material", exact same.

[shawndoggy]

Shawn: so you're saying Malibus costs have gone up significantly because they're importing?

What are the most expensive parts on our boats?

Labor? Domestic.... In house

Engine? Domestic

Molds & glass? Domestic..... In house

Towers? Domestic

Racks? Domestic

Vinyl? Domestic

Electronics? Import?

I'm guessing on these sources, so correct me if I'm wrong

no I was mostly being tongue in cheek about the weak dollar having an adverse impact on a purely domestically produced product like milk. My snarky knob is turned to 11 this morning, sorry.

I'm sure it's really all about the margins. If you can build 5000 "cheap" boats a year or "4000" blinged out ones with a 25% better bottom line, it makes more economic sense to focus on the luxury market.

wakes be damned, most of these things are sold as status symbols to 40 and 50 somethings, most of whom will never ever jump wake to wake toeside. But even the fat guy can impress his friends with his touchscreen and and the sound of 550 unbridled horsepower while they pull his kids around with an LSA.

[Tims]

I work at a factory that produces product domestically and the weak dollar has a direct impact on our product price since the raw materials that make up our product are traded globally. I don' t know the ratio of material / labor / and fixed cost that goes into a Malibu, but a good guess is at least 50% is material. So if you vendor tells you that resin is going up 10% and you don't have productivity to offset, it means the boat gets more expensive.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Tims

[Tims]

no I was mostly being tongue in cheek about the weak dollar having an adverse impact on a purely domestically produced product like milk. My snarky knob is turned to 11 this morning, sorry.

I'm sure it's really all about the margins. If you can build 5000 "cheap" boats a year or "4000" blinged out ones with a 25% better bottom line, it makes more economic sense to focus on the luxury market.

wakes be damned, most of these things are sold as status symbols to 40 and 50 somethings, most of whom will never ever jump wake to wake toeside. But even the fat guy can impress his friends with his touchscreen and and the sound of 550 unbridled horsepower while they pull his kids around with an LSA.

What do you have against 40 something fat guys that cannot wakeboard well??

[shawndoggy]

What do you have against 40 something fat guys that cannot wakeboard well??

not a darned thing... I am one! I'm just saying let's be honest about "the market" for these products.

[UWSkier]

While I agree that, in general, top end wake boats are getting gaudier and gaudier, I'd have to take exception with the idea they are one trick ponies... Seriously: my vride out performs an older skier in almost every way... Surfing, wakeboarding, hydrofoil, wakeskate, occupancy, storage space, comfort of ride in big water (a must on the river I boat on). The only thing I'd give the nod to older skiers on is skiing & footing wake. And of course I'm biased but I don't see one gaudy thing about the 2010-2013 Vrides... I can totally see how my RIDE graphic or others' tribal designs could be construed as gaudy to some.

What do you find gaudy about Vrides? (I can handle it, I have thick skin). Also, how is a 90s skier more versatile?

I thought we were talking high end boats (setters, MXZs, etc)? And I never mentioned a 90s skier. I mentioned a 2002 Sunscape LSV, which hull-wise is more versatile than any current boat in Malibu's lineup save the VTX with a nicer paint scheme.

[Tims]

not a darned thing... I am one! I'm just saying let's be honest about "the market" for these products.

Ha!! I'm scared as hell what I will look like when I can afford the G23 with the twin engine option and 20inch sub.

[Arctic Slalom]

what does a 2013 "stripped down" V Ride 21 cost?

single axle trailer

base engine

G3 Tower

base stereo

no racks

no ballast

zero bells and whistles

I doubt I'll ever buy a new boat.

first one was 20 years old. current one is 10 years old. next will be 5 years old.

I can't justify it with our season length....

[demo9asx]

Saw a 2013 ride at my local dealer and they are asking $65k. Pretty well equipped with 900lbs hard tank ballast, dual battery, perfect pass, heater, boat cover, stereo with sub, Bimini top and tandem trailer. Like everyone else said, if you're really serious about buying, you'll be surprised at the final price. Still, likely it'll be somewhere in the $50k.

[Afun]

Let me make sure I understand your logic: we don't see wakeboarding on TV anymore because 15 years ago it was MORE accessible than it is now? Look at your local lakes...how much HIGHER of a proportion of the boats on the waterways are wakeboard/ski boats than 15 years ago? 15 years ago the industry was much smaller than what it is today in terms of numbers. And while this is hardly the board for politics, the skyrocketing pricing AND demand started well before Obama which I would have thought would be interpreted as a sign of economic success, I dunno.

Ok. Blame the popularity or lack of on the watersports industry.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Afun

[85 Barefoot]

Ok. Blame the popularity or lack of on the watersports industry.

I'd love to reply but I have no idea what you're saying.

[Afun]

I'd love to reply but I have no idea what you're saying.

Lets blame the lack of watersports on TV on the actual watersports industry. You said the boats being expensive have nothing to do with it. Lets just say they need better marketing and more exposure.

[85 Barefoot]

Lets blame the lack of watersports on TV on the actual watersports industry. You said the boats being expensive have nothing to do with it. Lets just say they need better marketing and more exposure.

extreme drop in televised waterski events was a function of failed pro tours and failed leadership of the tours, sanctioning bodies, and sanctioning independence sought by the WWA, ie see decline of Coors Light then Cafe de Columbia tours as well as WWSP. Now, there is no pro skitour which means just a bunch of one-off events making television coverage unfeasible for the major players. Even the PWT now is miniscule compare to what it used to be. All of these things started happening years and years ago and has nothing to do with what is "now" high prices for boats. ESPN hasn't run hot summer nights in like 20 years and the few one off events that get ANY coverage like the WWSP event in New York or the US Open are essentially "Sponsored" for TV by the sponsors. That's not a feasible business model for permanent TV coverage.

[Afun]

You don't think if the price of these ski boats came down, it will help the sport?

[wedge88]

As a marketing professional I think Wake Boat Manufactures have hit the nail on the head. (They have made everyone think they have to have the options) The prices are outrageous but people keep buying and as a long time member of the malibu community it is crazy to see the changes. When my parents use to buy a new Malibu they bought it for the families likes. We added options that pertained to us as we do use the boat for serious watersports. Now you see all these online posts about well... I don't need a power wedge but I think I will get it for resale value or I need to order the wake hull even though we primarily ski so it will sell later on.

My family has owned 6 malibus (parents 4 and me 2) and we have never had a problem selling a well maintained boat. I remember when my dad bought his 2nd SSLXi back in 1999 the dealer told him he really needed the wedge and tower. We were primarily skiing at that time and he didn't want to pay for the options. Guess what, the boat sold 2 days after he listed it. Look at all the 2012s on dealers lots. No one wants to buy them because everyone wants surf gate even though it has only been out a year. Marketing is a great thing but I would prefer going to an event sponsored by Malibu than seeing a youtube video.

[Levi900RR]

Great post wedge88!

While I don't really "agree" with the direction some of the manufacturs are going and the prices are pretty crazy. (The VLX I looked at had an MSRP of 101K) I still think if you have a job and really want an inboard there is a really nice used boat out there with your name on it.

Bottom line is, if people keep buying new boats, they'll keep making them. Its like fuel, the price is NEVER going to actually go down significantly until the demand goes down significantly.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Great post wedge88!

While I don't really "agree" with the direction some of the manufacturs are going and the prices are pretty crazy. (The VLX I looked at had an MSRP of 101K) I still think if you have a job and really want an inboard there is a really nice used boat out there with your name on it.

Bottom line is, if people keep buying new boats, they'll keep making them. Its like fuel, the price is NEVER going to actually go down significantly until the demand goes down significantly.

Right. And the manufactures are currently trying to find that ceiling where profits start to drop because prices are so high.

[Sride]

Go shopping when you are serious about actually buying. I take all the MSRP numbers as a ploy for suckers. If you will pay it, no harm, no foul. Everyone is happy, but when you really get down to what you want and what you will actually pay , I think you would be surprised what you can actually end up at.

Nothing is easy and it takes work. But don.tnfall for the "suckers" price.

Totally agree, people are all spun up about MSRP. Why? Negotiate the price you want and be happy. Buy new boats when the market corrects, recession is in full tilt, its fall, and the lake is low on water.

[85 Barefoot]

You don't think if the price of these ski boats came down, it will help the sport?

Whats the definition of help? More TV airtime? No, I don't. Compare the size of the industry to the TV "heyday". Night and day difference in volume of boats sold.

[wakesetter8796]

If they are already making a bunch of profit, why cut it down?

[NorrisMike]

A V-ride w snap-out carpet would be my ideal boat. Simple yet effective.

[NorrisMike]

Here is a little food for thought. This is what a 2009 21 V-Ride build sheet looked like. Pretty interesting to see the prices itemized like this

[Indyxc]

No racks and no ballast? Is that even considered a wake boat? .... And I'd bet the answer to your question is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60k (based on what my 09, with dual axle, ballast,cleats , 2 racks and power wedge cost.

I had my dealer quote a base base, 13 Vride. G3, ballast, swivel racks come standard. No wedge, it was about 59K out the door. Forget it.

[Indyxc]

I skimmed most of this thread, but talking to my local dealer owner during the boat show his comments were:

During the great 2008 era recession the main wakeboat manufacturers realized that their "lowered" end wakeboats stopped selling but the upper market ones kept selling basically like normal. Furthermore, the profit margin on the more expensive boats was more.

So he said, they basically decided to switch their sales strategy to more of a differentiation strategy where they sell less boats that are more particular, but for a greater steady profit margin, vs volume at low profit margin.

And for those that can not simply buy the boat outright, they can now finance it for 20-30 years. So at the boat show, you don't see a price, you see a monthly payment.

His take, true or not.

[wakesetter8796]

Ya it's crazy, a boat loan can be as long as a mortgage!

Back in 09 you could get a basic V ride for $32k? I bet what you paid looking at the options you could almost get that now.