2000 Sunsetter VLX

[moto96s]

Hey all,

I'd just like to point out that it makes sense aggie has a better looking wake than me.

He has better looking ballast!!

[moto96s]

Bradley,

I have been reluctant to move bags around because i semi plumbed them in with a central fill/drain for the rear locker bags and the bow bags. But I am going to disconnect everything tomorrow so I can experiment and move things around.. Let you all know how I make out.

[moto96s]

OK,

Took it out today with everything disconnected. Best deal would be to use Fast Freddy's idea of people ballast and move them around at will to see what works best. The weather is finally turning nice here so i should be able to add bodies soon. Anyway, started moving stuff around as Bradley had suggested.

Kept the two 400lb sacs in the VDrive lockers, put one 48x12x12 on the rear seat(260lbs) and one 48x12x12 on the spotter side seat. left the 62x16x10(370lb) in the ski locker and moved the 150 lead up front. Wake was bigger and better. May need a little more up front to clean up the wake at my 20-20.5mph.

Aggie, that is a nice looking wake at your speed and rope length. It looks like there is no trough at all at the wake where you would hit it at that speed and length, nice! Also can't wait to try your surf set up.

Racer808, are you guys getting out any, or is it still cold out that way?

[Bu hoo]

OK,

May need a little more up front to clean up the wake at my 20-20.5mph.

Aggie, that is a nice looking wake at your speed and rope length.

You shouldn't be having ANY problems cleaning up the wake at that speed. What rope length were you trying to use? I can get a good clean wake down to 17-18 mph if I shorten the rope to 60-65'.

[Bradley Thornton]

OK,

Took it out today with everything disconnected. Best deal would be to use Fast Freddy's idea of people ballast and move them around at will to see what works best. The weather is finally turning nice here so i should be able to add bodies soon. Anyway, started moving stuff around as Bradley had suggested.

Kept the two 400lb sacs in the VDrive lockers, put one 48x12x12 on the rear seat(260lbs) and one 48x12x12 on the spotter side seat. left the 62x16x10(370lb) in the ski locker and moved the 150 lead up front. Wake was bigger and better. May need a little more up front to clean up the wake at my 20-20.5mph.

Aggie, that is a nice looking wake at your speed and rope length. It looks like there is no trough at all at the wake where you would hit it at that speed and length, nice! Also can't wait to try your surf set up.

Racer808, are you guys getting out any, or is it still cold out that way?

I would take the 260 on the seat move it to the floor straight up and down then slowly move it toward the bow till you get the wake to clean up. That way the weight stays more in the center to much in the bow and it will take a drink on a rough day.

[racer808]

OK,

Took it out today with everything disconnected. Best deal would be to use Fast Freddy's idea of people ballast and move them around at will to see what works best. The weather is finally turning nice here so i should be able to add bodies soon. Anyway, started moving stuff around as Bradley had suggested.

Kept the two 400lb sacs in the VDrive lockers, put one 48x12x12 on the rear seat(260lbs) and one 48x12x12 on the spotter side seat. left the 62x16x10(370lb) in the ski locker and moved the 150 lead up front. Wake was bigger and better. May need a little more up front to clean up the wake at my 20-20.5mph.

Aggie, that is a nice looking wake at your speed and rope length. It looks like there is no trough at all at the wake where you would hit it at that speed and length, nice! Also can't wait to try your surf set up.

Racer808, are you guys getting out any, or is it still cold out that way?

No we've been out a bunch. Just got back, I couldn't play cause my shoulder but I pulled the kids & drank a few beers. Waters been about 63-65, 60 at the deeper lakes.

[rogermulligan]

Hi Guys, I am really late to the conversation, but thought that you might have some useful advice. I have a 2002 sunscape VLX. Used one 400 lbs. sac in the rear locker last year - nothing else, and we were able to surf with no rope! however, always 4-5 people in the boat in the back with a wedge. I want to put in an automatic (not throw the pump over the side) system. Looking at Tsunami pump with 2 bags, one on either side, either 400lbs each or 750 each (Bakes online, sells complete packages) Currently, I need to drive counter clockwise in a wide circle to get a decent wave, that is rampy as you say. It is somewhat "frothy" - If I add more weight, will I need to put weight up front? does this really help? I can always have a person or two sit in the bow (I don't really relish the thought of putting in bow bags). I was wondering where to drill the holes for filling or draining - I have Ideas, but not really sure - stern, just below the swim grid? Finally, I am primarily a skiier - I need to be able to go 34-36 mpg. easily for my pulls. But, once the lake is all chopped up, we revert to the wake surfiing - suggestions on best prop. to accomplish both? I think that I currently have the factory prop, but don't know for sure (boat is stored elsewhere). Currently, the nose of the boat is Very high in the air when wake surfing - about 12-14 mph, 2800 rpm - best wake for this particular setup.

Thanks,

Roger.

[moto96s]

Hi Roger,

Good luck with your setup. If anyone can help you dial it in, these guys can.

I finally got to go out and wake again today and success!!

I actually believe I had too much weight in the bow for what was in the back.

Ended up with the 400s full in the v drive lockers

One 260 on the back seat, and one 260 on the floor as Bradley suggested.

Ski locker full too.

Wake was great at 20mph and I rode at 70 feet.

The prop pulls it out of the hole like it is an empty boat, and the PP is controlling well also.

No pics as it was just me and my driver today, but will post as soon as I can.

Bottom line is I will probably end up with the 750s in the v lockers so I can free up my seats, and floor.

Also getting real tired of snunami(spelled right?) pumps. hope to have a plumbed in system by end of June.

Thanks for the help folks!

[demo9asx]

Hi Guys, I am really late to the conversation, but thought that you might have some useful advice. I have a 2002 sunscape VLX. Used one 400 lbs. sac in the rear locker last year - nothing else, and we were able to surf with no rope! however, always 4-5 people in the boat in the back with a wedge. I want to put in an automatic (not throw the pump over the side) system. Looking at Tsunami pump with 2 bags, one on either side, either 400lbs each or 750 each (Bakes online, sells complete packages) Currently, I need to drive counter clockwise in a wide circle to get a decent wave, that is rampy as you say. It is somewhat "frothy" - If I add more weight, will I need to put weight up front? does this really help? I can always have a person or two sit in the bow (I don't really relish the thought of putting in bow bags). I was wondering where to drill the holes for filling or draining - I have Ideas, but not really sure - stern, just below the swim grid? Finally, I am primarily a skiier - I need to be able to go 34-36 mpg. easily for my pulls. But, once the lake is all chopped up, we revert to the wake surfiing - suggestions on best prop. to accomplish both? I think that I currently have the factory prop, but don't know for sure (boat is stored elsewhere). Currently, the nose of the boat is Very high in the air when wake surfing - about 12-14 mph, 2800 rpm - best wake for this particular setup.

Thanks,

Roger.

Roger, looks like you're a fellow lower mainlanders. I had an 02 vlx so I think it's the same hull as yours. Mine was plumbed in with 750lbs on each side and the stock 500lbs centre tank.

For surfing I ran surf side full, mid ship full, 500lbs on surf side seat and 250-300lbs on the bow. Pretty good surf wave. Prop was acme 381, speed around 10.6mph and no wedge.

[moto96s]

OK folks,

My next question is about prop rotation and surfing.

Somewhere I read it is easier to get a good surf wake on the drivers side of the boat due to the prop rotation. Main problem being that is the goofy side and most folks are more comfortable on the spotter side.

Is that true?

Is it easier to get a better surf wake on the driver side?

Thanks

[rogermulligan]

Personally, I found the wake on the drivers side to be very "frothy" we had a goofy foot surfer (begineer) try it, but gave up and was forced to go to the passenger side, I might have been doing something wrong though. we have only minimal ballast on the surfside with a Wedge.

[rogermulligan]

Roger, looks like you're a fellow lower mainlanders. I had an 02 vlx so I think it's the same hull as yours. Mine was plumbed in with 750lbs on each side and the stock 500lbs centre tank.

For surfing I ran surf side full, mid ship full, 500lbs on surf side seat and 250-300lbs on the bow. Pretty good surf wave. Prop was acme 381, speed around 10.6mph and no wedge.

Nice to see someone local as well! It looks like you never put weight into the 750 tank on the drivers side Engine compartment? I am thinking about one 750 bag in the Surfside Engine compartment, 400 in the ski locker, maybe 300 in the bow (or put two people up there). Nothing on the drivers side..... Not sure what the stock prop is or if it is even a stock prop - need to check. Also, my boat is actually an LSV Sunscape, has the diamond slalom hull - so I am fighting a hull that was designed to throw minimal waves.... but slalom is my main sport. Surfing is a backup when the chop starts on the lake. do you think the extra 500 on the surfside side seat makes that much difference? Thanks for you help!

[demo9asx]

I had the 750lbs on both lockers. Dialling the driver side wave is easy with a lot less weight. More weight on the surf side seat made a big difference.

[rogermulligan]

I had the 750lbs on both lockers. Dialling the driver side wave is easy with a lot less weight. More weight on the surf side seat made a big difference.

Interesting that you area able to get a good wave on the drivers side (Goofy foot some call it). For my boat, the wave on that side is too frothy to surf - do you still use the extra weight on the passager side seat when surfing on the drivers side?

[Launch22]

I thought I'd piggy back this thread since I'm trying to dial in my no wedge '99 Sunsetter VLX.

I went with 400's in the back for now for a variety of reasons (I'm the only decent rider in my crew; I'm kind of a perfectionist, so the idea of partially filling two bags evenly would drive me crazy; if I went with the 750's and filled them, I'd also have to buy an integrated bow sack for balance which seems like an excessive cost for our collective skill level; we usually have a decent sized crew; I won't have an automated system until fall at the earliest, so manually filling four bags in a crowded boat is just too much of a pain for me; I just throw both 400's on the same side for surfing). All that said, I'll probably buy at least one 750 when I do plumb my system.

Anyway, I'm going to Lake Powell in two weeks, and I wanted some suggestions on where I should put a 4th sack (if I get one) on both the wake and surf wake.

Here are some pictures of the current set-up:

Wake:

Two 400# V-drive sacks full, rear seat sack in the ski locker (~500#), 8 people (3 in the bow)

I really liked the wake that day. It was super poppy and fun. I rode 75' at about 24.2 and probably could have ridden 80' (which is my goal). If I have less people and an extra sack, where should I put it? Was bow weight the key? How much do you think I should have up front with 800 lbs. in the rear? I generally stick to 60/40, but tend to count about half of the ski locker as bow weight.

Surf:

400 in surfside rear locker

400 on surfside seats

Ski locker full

0-1 person in bow

My friend can ride ropeless all day, but I'm still struggling (partially because I'm too big for my board...Slayer Pro on the way). Add more weight/people up front to lengthen the wave? Or???

Trade in the two skinny chicks for a couple of fatties, that will make up for not having the 750's! Haha

[moto96s]

OK folks,

I finally broke down and ordered 2 750s and one Ballast puppy pump to start. Have been out about 7 or 8 times and am getting tired of all the work throwing the pumps over the side, and the mess(wet dirty water) everytime I go to disconnect or connect to fill bags(bags on seats and floor).

I am going to start with a very simple one pump system with valves to divert to either 0ne of the rear locker 750s at a time . I am hoping to get by with the 750s, ski locker bag(yeah, one Tsunami still going over the side, but this one makes the least mess), and the lead up front as needed.

First step is moving the battery and will probably try and get that done early next week.

Will keep you posted.

[Nitrousbird]

Your setup is going to take forever to fill. With a diverter valve, it will be slightly faster than when you were manually throwing a pump over the side, filling, then moving that pump to the other side. 750's really should have their own dedicated pump each (whether it is aerators or impeller pumps). You are asking a single pump to fill 1500lbs of water.

The math:

1500lbs = ~180 gallons of water

Even a high flowing 1200 GPH aerator pump flowing at it's rated flow rate would be 9 minutes. In the real world, with hose loss, head height loss and other restrictions, the actual flow rate will be significantly less.

Let's say your real world, 800 GPH. That means it will take you ~14 minutes to fill both bags. That is a LONG time for a fill.

[moto96s]

Hey Nitrous,

I hear ya.

I am figuring 90 gallons per bag if I can fully fill them.

The ballast puppy is rated at 9 gpm best case scenerio, so 10 mins per bag or 20 total minutes .

Takes me about 10 minutes to get to my spot through a no wake zone and then 10 minutes to fiddle with my ski locker.

I am hoping to be able to fill while idling through the no wake, is that reality, or will I need to stop to fill?

Worse comes to worse I will add a second pump.

Want to plan my thru hull to feed at least one more pump for the future, so I am assuming a 1" thru hull is the safe bet?

[Nitrousbird]

You should have a dedicated thru-hull per pump. Impeller pumps do not like sharing thru-hull fittings. 1" per pump is sufficient.

Just do two pumps - do it right the first time. You won't need a diverter valve in that case, so by the time you reduce that part cost, your total extra to do the 2nd pump will be in the $160-$180 range. It is worth the extra money to do it right the first time.

[moto96s]

Sounds about right.

Now I need to fit 2 thru hulls in a fairly limited space

Will update when I have some more progress.

[FastFreddy]

From what I've read you can easily run two impeller pumps on ONE 1" thru hull. I would Tee it off as close to the thru hull as possible and use 1" hose to keep the frictional losses to a minimum. Just my thoughts.

I currently have one pump with a Y diverter valve from WM.

FYI the diverter valve can work in more than one way. Out of the box it can do intake to bag1 OR intake to bag2. If you remove one of the washer/disks things you can then use it as a intake to bag1 OR intake to bag2 OR intake to both bags. That is the way I am running mine though I mostly wake surf so I don't typically fill both bags at once.

Also I went with the Johnson pump instead of the Jabsco. It is rated at 13.7GPM at 0psi instead of 9GPM. Thats 50% faster on paper.

Edited June 30, 2013 by FastFreddy

[moto96s]

Fast Freddy,

Did the Johnson pump come with the switch to operate it?

If not what did you use?

I know there are people using 3/4 thru hulls out there, and a 1" thru hull will pass quite a bit more water than a 3/4, I am guessing almost double.

But Nitrous may have a point. If I try and run 2 out of the one thru hull, it may cause cavition on one or both pumps, and slow things down considerably.

Anybody out there have experience with 2 pumps thru 1-1" thru hull.

I really don't want to drill multiple holes in my hull.

[jtrezon]

I have a single Johnson for two 750's in a 99 VLX.

Recently added 12V solenoid valves to divert to each sack... Also have a manual valve for a wash down hose or to fill extra anywhere in the boat.

I went for the budget install...made it flexible and have added options each year.

Yes it takes a little longer than multiple pumps, but I don have to move everyone any more. I'm happy with it.

I'd be happy to share pics next weekend....believe we have basically the same boat.

[Simo]

A 1" drain/fill thru hull is not any faster than a 3/4" as long as the 3/4 is ran to 1" hose. The gain/loss is in the friction loss of the hose. 3/4 hose has a lot more friction loss of 1". The more hose, the bigger the loss. I went with the 1" for other reasons. But if your reasoning is simply b/c it will get you more water that is not true.

[moto96s]

Jtrezon,

That sounds great. If you have time to get some pics I'd love to see them.

I think you are right, we are the same basic setup.

Simo,

For a single pump I do not believe it would make a difference for a 3/4 thru hull. However, if I do go with two pumps, the 1" through hull will defintely pass more GPM in a given set of circumstances, especially large volume suction/pickup for fill. If size really did not matter at all, why not use 1/2" or less?

Not sure of the ID of a 3/4 thru hull, but the area of a 3/4 circle is about .441" . The area of a 1"circle is about .785" so you have almost twice the available to transport water through. Hope my math was good on all of that. Anyway, if I have to drill a hole, might as well make it big!

I remember you saying somewhere you did end up with 1" thru hulls. Do you happen to remember what size hole you needed for the 1"?