surf tabs?

[FastFreddy]

Just wanted some opinions on this modification. The guy was calling them surf tabs. They move independently one of the other and help list the boat.

Edited June 18, 2013 by FastFreddy

[Levi900RR]

I'm not sure that is going to do a whole lot...

[REW]

They will list the boat while moving but not add any weight. See if you can get a lake test and some pics of the wake

[FastFreddy]

I think Mastercraft has somethign similar that they call surf tabs don't they?

[rugger]

Mastercraft did this, I think back in 2007 or so. My understanding is that they make only a little difference because at slow surf speeds it's hard for trim tabs to work to their potential. I would think they'd be much better for "fine tuning" the wake though. Have always wondered how surf gate would work with these to tweak the wake. I know just moving people around makes a difference with surf gate, why wouldn't tabs do the same. It also seems like the NSS system works as a trim below as well as to diverge the wake.

Anyone try it?

[skurfer]

They work. This is on a newer X-10. We've installed MC generation 2 surf tabs on a couple of X-Stars recently. That plus extra wake makers fly high ballast. Wow!

[Bradley Thornton]

Just wanted some opinions on this modification. The guy was calling them surf tabs. They move independently one of the other and help list the boat.

What is the boat? Let us know how it does this would be way easer than surf gate to add.

[shawndoggy]

They work. This is on a newer X-10. We've installed MC generation 2 surf tabs on a couple of X-Stars recently. That plus extra wake makers fly high ballast. Wow!

do you have any video of how they work when the boat is weighted?

[Chia]

turn them sideways, then you might have something.

[Bradley Thornton]

turn them sideways, then you might have something.

Did you watch the video of that X10 looked good to me.

[skurfer]

do you have any video of how they work when the boat is weighted?

do you have any video of how they work when the boat is weighted?

No, we have a X-Star in the shop we just put them on with extra ballast. Lots of parts getting powder coated right now, when it's done I will see if we can take it out, load her down and take some vids..

btw that's Parker VP of MC Sales driving that X-10

Edited May 2, 2013 by skurfer

[Steeli]

My Sunscape has also this Trimm Tabs behause the owner bevor need them the put the Bow Down in one special Cruise Speed. I have no ballast at the boat yet, so this Tabs are only for trimmig the boat. I am shure that these on mastercraft boats only affect the wake in addition with ballast...

[rugger]

No, we have a X-Star in the shop we just put them on with extra ballast. Lots of parts getting powder coated right now, when it's done I will see if we can take it out, load her down and take some vids..

btw that's Parker VP of MC Sales driving that X-10

Do you know what speed that was in the video? I know tabs work at higher speeds, but from what I've read you just don't get those results at 10-12 mph. Not saying they were'nt going surf speed -- I'm just asking because I'm interested. Thanks!

[shawndoggy]

No, we have a X-Star in the shop we just put them on with extra ballast. Lots of parts getting powder coated right now, when it's done I will see if we can take it out, load her down and take some vids..

btw that's Parker VP of MC Sales driving that X-10

please do. THat vid is pretty impressive, but it's also hard to tell how good the wave is or isn't without someone riding it. At least if the boat were weighted we'd have a better idea of the likelihood of success.

Is there anything special about the MC tabs or are they just, well, trim tabs?

[shawndoggy]

Do you know what speed that was in the video? I know tabs work at higher speeds, but from what I've read you just don't get those results at 10-12 mph. Not saying they were'nt going surf speed -- I'm just asking because I'm interested. Thanks!

the boat appears to be unweighted with only 3 people and the wake never cleaned up inbetween sides, so I doubt they were going too fast.

[nyryan2001]

For the MC Surf Tabs: the smaller the boat and the bigger the tabs the better results. of course the demo is on the tiny X10. thats where the best results would be. Results of surf tabs quickly become minimal on anything larger than the X25/X30 which do perform well. trying to tilt a X35, X45, X55 or Xstar with them is tough. Perhaps if larger tabs were used....

Wow. Xstars for surfing. I will like to see some results of the Wow! surfwake Skurfer describes.

[shawndoggy]

Ryan which mc boats have you been in with the tabs? How were they weighted? Evenly or still traditionally (surf side)?

[nyryan2001]

Shawn, Ive been in the X30 with tabs, 750 filled 80% or so in the trunk. very capable surf boat... I'd put it in the category of a 350hp 23LSV without surfgate surfwise. Even with using the surf tabs.... its still along the lines of the traditional leaning the boat to the rear surfside like we always have been. Its definitly not any new delayed convergence technology like we see in SG or NSS. All the tabs do is help lean the boat to the surf side to gouge the water with the surfside corner. if you have it weighted well to begin with(standard 1100 in the trunk, 750 under the seats).... it will improve the wave as it leans the boat more. Def not evenly weighted, still gansta leaned.

I was looking hard into the MCs when I was boat shopping.... the premier surfboats in the MC lineup are the X25 and the X30. well made boats and capable...priced high 80s to low 100s. But as nice as the boats were, I was near certain I would be taking a step down performance wise for surfing coming out of the 247. IMO MC is still very much 22mph wake centric and Xstar focused. The dealers will tell you the Xstars are horrible for surfing.

The trim tabs are less effective on the larger boats...check dealers' websites, you see the new larger 2013s without them... X30s and smaller all have them. Ive been on the majority of these boats at this dealership.

http://www.texasmastercraft.com/dfw-new-mastercraft.cfml I am pretty sure everything X35 and larger is without tabs... dealer said it was a waste of money to put them on there. Best results on smaller boats.

[shawndoggy]

Excellent first hand knowledge! Gracias!

[Lance B. Johnson]

No, we have a X-Star in the shop we just put them on with extra ballast. Lots of parts getting powder coated right now, when it's done I will see if we can take it out, load her down and take some vids..

btw that's Parker VP of MC Sales driving that X-10

I am willing to offer up 210 lbs of movable ballast for this test.......

[shawndoggy]

Shawn, Ive been in the X30 with tabs, 750 filled 80% or so in the trunk. very capable surf boat... I'd put it in the category of a 350hp 23LSV without surfgate surfwise. Even with using the surf tabs.... its still along the lines of the traditional leaning the boat to the rear surfside like we always have been. Its definitly not any new delayed convergence technology like we see in SG or NSS. All the tabs do is help lean the boat to the surf side to gouge the water with the surfside corner. if you have it weighted well to begin with(standard 1100 in the trunk, 750 under the seats).... it will improve the wave as it leans the boat more. Def not evenly weighted, still gansta leaned.

I was looking hard into the MCs when I was boat shopping.... the premier surfboats in the MC lineup are the X25 and the X30. well made boats and capable...priced high 80s to low 100s. But as nice as the boats were, I was near certain I would be taking a step down performance wise for surfing coming out of the 247. IMO MC is still very much 22mph wake centric and Xstar focused. The dealers will tell you the Xstars are horrible for surfing.

The trim tabs are less effective on the larger boats...check dealers' websites, you see the new larger 2013s without them... X30s and smaller all have them. Ive been on the majority of these boats at this dealership.

http://www.texasmastercraft.com/dfw-new-mastercraft.cfml I am pretty sure everything X35 and larger is without tabs... dealer said it was a waste of money to put them on there. Best results on smaller boats.

Ryan, a followup... on any of the boats you rode in did you try evenly weighting with the tabs? I understand it's not a delayed convergence model, but isn't delayed convergence what we get when we tip the boats over? If the tab is big enough to get the gansta lean on, even with even weighting, it would still work, right? I mean sure there's lift on one side, but that must translate to lean on the other (gravity being the constant), with the result being delayed convergence (a wave) as a result of the lean vs. wake manipulation, right?

[nyryan2001]

Shawn- I was only on one briefly so i dont want to misrepresent, but the one I was in was leaned on the surfside. I do not think you would get results evenly weighting a trim tabbed boat like we see with even weighted SG/NSS. Thats why you dont see many impressive MC surfing videos like you see with Malibu and Centurion.

No, I dont think leaning is the same as the delayed convergence. Leaning the boat on the surf corner gouges the water hard there on that surfside and minimizes the wave on the other....creates a bigger wave. they still converge and meet at the same place behind the boat. Even weight with delayed convergence allows an exsiting normal wave to grow to a larger size because it isnt getting beat down by the wave on the opposing side.

FWIW, I have got best results on my G23 using BOTH methods, a cheat to the surfside and using the delayed convergence the NSS provides.

By using the X25/X30 as their surf boats...they have chosen to go the route of a smaller lighter (less freeboard) boat = requires less weight to lean = awesome surf wave. I have some pics of a Centurion 23 with only 2000lb total throwing amazing waves. That boat leans real easy.

Seems to be 2 ways ahead with surfing:

- smaller more nimble boats that lean easy thus throw nice waves easy: X25/X30 and smaller Centurions

- Displacement and lean oor by using SG/NSS technology

[FastFreddy]

My boat is a 99 SS VLX. It won't be in the water for another month or so, so I can't give you videos or pictures of the wake yet. I will add pictures and videos when I do get it in the water.

I can't be in the water yet since there's still ice on the lake...

Also I have a list of things to start and finish:

New 1235 prop

New stereo

New skins from Chee

Repair loose fin

Install wrap (already purchased)

New heater install

New LED interior lights all around

Replace vent tubes, and some crappy wiring, etc

Here's a picture from two nights ago.

Edited May 2, 2013 by fredberg1414

[skurfer]

I've had a really good surf session behind a X-Star with no tabs. Not much extra weight, 600 lbs, plus a few peopler. I was surprised. Everyone hates on it, but it's pretty good with some extra weight.

Ryan, do you think SG & NSS flattens out the wave a bit?

[nyryan2001]

Surfer- post up some pics of the Xstar wake you are describing when you get a chance....

SG and NSS flatten the wave? Absolutely not brother. I came in on this as skeptical.... But I'm a believer. It def makes a better wave. I rode behind a 23LSV with 350hp that I know without SG would not have been possible.... Or at a minimum comfortable/safe without SG. Now with that being said... I think there is room for improvement... Shape/size of the gates and the spray issues which are reportedly being looked at.

The only deception.... Or gaming in this I have seen... Mostly by Malibu you can see in that last demo video with Malibudude. Best video to date IMO, but all those amazing waves are NOT on VTX, VLX, 22 etc. if I had to bet, all those great monster waves you see on there are in the 23 and the 24mxz. There should have qualified those ride clips with tags "2013 23LSV" or "2013 24 MXZ". That video sells that if you buy "Surfgate" those waves are what you are getting, not always the case, big variation in the effectiveness and performance of SG along the different boat models. But, even on those other models, it will still provide a better wave than without SG.

I'm sure that will cause an uproar on here. Flame suit on.