Dealer Installed Non-Marine Amps

[V TEX]

I just discovered that the amps that my dealer installed are non-marine grade amps and that both are mono channel amps. I don't know much about stereo equipment so I really didn't notice at first. Is it common for dealers to use non-marine amps? It appears they just went as cheap as they could...

I wanted to be able to adjust the volume of the tower speakers independent from the cabin speakers. Now I know why they fade function on my head unit does not work. I guess I should have got them to spec out the equipment when I bought the boat. Live and learn.

They installed one Orion Cobalt 5001 and one Orion Cobalt 8001.

[Bill_AirJunky]

I don't think the fact that their not marine amps is a big deal. I have a pair of Kickers & their like 7 yrs old & don't have any problems.

The fact that their mono though..... probably fine for the sub or tower speakers. But seems like it wouldn't be right for the interior. Maybe someone else has more than 2 cents to chip in on that though.

[wakebrdr94]

Did you take the boat in just for a stereo? We're you buying the boat and adding a stereo? We're you specific to what you wanted? How much did he charge you for that? Probably not the way to go, did you give him a budget to on the stereo? What was added just amps?

The fact they are not marine won't matter. I've never ran anything that said marine in any of my boats. Most of the time it is the same thing, in a different exterior case.

Edited April 3, 2013 by wakebrdr94

[JustinOSU]

Non marine amps not a problem, I've had 3 kicker amps for 7 years and not 1 issue. Left and right balance won't be adjustable with mono amps, fade would work with mono amps if you had the front channel speakers going to one amp and the rear channel going to the other amps. That would also mean your stereo would need front and rear pairs of RCA outputs unless they used the speaker wires.

[Nitrousbird]

You need to not run those amps before you start doing speaker damage. Those are not full-range amps. I would demand my money back if you paid them anything to install those amps.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Nitrousbird

[Earmark Marine]

V-TEX,

I'm not familiar with those amplifiers but I wouldn't jump to conclusions. I realize that running a monoblock to the tower seems unconventional at first glance. But what if they are Class AB and fullrange?

Mono on the tower has no real drawback and can even have a distinct advantage. So begin by having a discussion with the stereo dealer and get their reasoning on the system. That could clear a few things up for you. I would also go on-line and check both the topology, whether Class D or Class AB, as well as the stated frequency response.

Many boaters run automotive amplifiers in fresh water environments. A marine conformal coated amplifier is helpful to combat the corrosion from salt air. But if either get wet while passing current either is likely to be toast.

David

[wakebrdr94]

And that is why we love David ^.

Edited April 4, 2013 by wakebrdr94

[Nitrousbird]

But what if they are Class AB and fullrange?

They are AB but NOT full range amps:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17257_Orion-Cobalt-CO500.1-CO5001.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18885_Orion-Cobalt-CO8001-CO800.1.html

[shawndoggy]

But what if they are Class AB and fullrange?

They are AB but NOT full range amps:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17257_Orion-Cobalt-CO500.1-CO5001.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18885_Orion-Cobalt-CO8001-CO800.1.html

The frequency response on the 8001 sonic link is " Frequency response: 20-30,000 Hz". Isn't that full range?

[jk13]

They are AB but NOT full range amps:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17257_Orion-Cobalt-CO500.1-CO5001.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18885_Orion-Cobalt-CO8001-CO800.1.html

20Hz to 30kHz sounds pretty full range to me.

There is no high pass filter, but there is a full range switch on the crossover. They may be using the HU to crossover the tower, or they may just run them full range.

[Nitrousbird]

20Hz to 30kHz sounds pretty full range to me.

There is no high pass filter, but there is a full range switch on the crossover. They may be using the HU to crossover the tower, or they may just run them full range.

I guess I overlooked that when seeing the low pass crossover and not being mentioned as selectable (but it is after looking at pictures of the amp). I retract my previous statement ASSUMING crossover on the amp is disabled and crossover functions are being done through the head unit or an EQ. Still doesn't seem like an ideal amp choice but can be safe at least.

[ColinP]

Earmark, whats the advantage to a mono amp on the tower?

[Bill_AirJunky]

Earmark, whats the advantage to a mono amp on the tower?

No clue on any advantages. But the stereo effect has to be lost on the tower speakers..... especially 80' back!

[Earmark Marine]

Earmark, whats the advantage to a mono amp on the tower?

A stereo image on the tower is no more than a placebo effect. The close proximity of the speakers to one another combined with the long projection distance is perceived as summed mono anyway. However, if the music really had strong left to right bias with different channel information, then you would hear only one channel outside of the wake. In summed mono you have all information outside of the wake.

Also, any horizontal array, like four speakers across a narrow tube tower, limits the horizontal dispersion due to comb filtering (off-axis cancellations). Prosound products fan out the speakers in a wide pattern to increase dispersion and nullify the comb filtering from the opposite side. In this scheme you have less beaming down the middle and much wider play outside the wake. Mono works great in this application.

Most of today's recordings are so compressed there isn't enough white space for much of a stereo effect.

So that's mono on the tower. In the boat is another story and should stay stereo until you have a 60foot + cruiser with an enormous beam and then you alternate left/right going down each side.

David

[Brianinpdx]

I've never really been a fan of mono tower setups. I see many towers with speakers fanned out - i.e widening the horizontal plane. Also being used in party cove application and its has audible differences. Wake to wake... sure I'd agree the differences are subtle. I dont think one is really configuring wrong either way. My pref is not mono for tower or cabin zones. A lot of the pro sound line arrays are using time alignment. Something not in play on boats. Not saying that it couldn't. I just don't think its a real world application.

As to the OP's question about marine grade amplifiers. It's not a game killer having non marine amplifiers in the boat. If moisture is a concern then look at going to that level of gear selection. The most important thing is: Are the amps you are using properly matched power wise to the speakers they are driving. If the answer is yes.. Let it rip.

-Brian

Edited April 4, 2013 by Brianinpdx

[Earmark Marine]

Time alignment has no relevance to left and right unless you are fixated on a very particular sweet spot like is done with vehicles when using an Audison Bit processor for example. Why? If you correct for one side then you increase the error on the other side.

Many pro audio and sound reinforcement acoustic principles apply precisely to the wake tower. They are both open field with many of the same challenges.

David

[Bobby Light]

It's ok David you don't need to take offense to what Brian said, it wasn't directed at you.