Hard tank v Ballast bag

[wakedncsu]

Ok. I recognize that you can put more weight with a bag since it will fill in the rounded walls better and all that. I feel like there is so many more that prefer bags to tanks...I don't understand why there is such a strong push. I currently don't have any ballast in the back of my boat and am planning on adding some. I don't want to lose all my storage. I was figuring 400-500 lbs max in each locker is what I am going to install. I intend on leaving vests, tubes, extra ropes and whatever else in the lockers. My logic is that a hard tank would be the better option in this instance. That way I can safely toss all my gear on top and I will always be guaranteed that I haven't consumed too much space to not allow the ballast to fill. Also, If I go hard tank I am not adding pressure during the filling process by having a bunch of stuff laying on the sac. I hope this is making sense. Please tell me if my logic is flawed. I welcome everyone's insight.

Thanks

Jeremy

Edited January 11, 2013 by wakedncsu

[Rmack]

I wouldn't worry too much about the pressure on the bags, they are "strong like bull".

The hard tanks are going to take up much more room than I think you realize. The bags only take up room when full.

Here are a few links to my old 2000 lsv with bags and a bunch of crap when empty( I would have lost this possibility with hard tanks):

http://2012malibumcglinch.shutterfly.com/133

http://2012malibumcglinch.shutterfly.com/133#134

http://2012malibumcglinch.shutterfly.com/133#132

[Ndawg12]

We bascially have the same boat. 400lb bags is exactly what you're looking for. I can fill them completely and still have room for 10+ jackets, deflated tube, a few ropes, and all the kids' sand toys. Just make sure you get Flyhigh bags, nearly bulletproof.

[shawndoggy]

if you service your own boat, the hard tanks are a MAJOR pita.

[D-GOOSE]

I would go with the bags.

More room when not full and still room on top when full.

Cheaper to install unless you find some used tanks locally.

Ease of climbing into locker during maintenance.

A 400# bag is just the right amount for the V-ride. I think the hard tanks are 250#

[wakedncsu]

I wouldn't worry too much about the pressure on the bags, they are "strong like bull".

The hard tanks are going to take up much more room than I think you realize. The bags only take up room when full.

Here are a few links to my old 2000 lsv with bags and a bunch of crap when empty( I would have lost this possibility with hard tanks):

http://2012malibumcglinch.shutterfly.com/133

http://2012malibumcglinch.shutterfly.com/133#134

http://2012malibumcglinch.shutterfly.com/133#132

Thank you so much guys. Rmack, do you leave all that stuff in there while filling the bags? I worry about pressure wasn't directed at the bag so much as the pump putting water in the bag. My plan is to use to Jabsco/Johnson reversible pumps. One for each bag. Mount them near the transmission with thru-hull fittings and port over flow out each side on the rear. If I go with the bags would the pumps be able to fill them without having to empty the storage lockers to fill and then put all the storage back in the locker? Also, with a bag should I vent?

Thanks

Jeremy

[Nitrousbird]

The pumps can easily fill them with stuff on top. Hell, you can go with 750's and there is still room on top of them for life jackets, ropes, and even a fully deflated tube if you lay it fully across the bag. I fill my 750's all the way and still keep several jackets in each locker.

[wakedncsu]

Nitrousbird, can you better quantify your storage space with the 750's filled? When they are completely filled how many inches of clearance is left between the top of the storage locker and the bag? That is nice to hear. I was afraid the pumps wouldn't get the water into the bag that well. Also, should I vent the bag or not? With bags over hard tanks I would guess leaving the vacuum would be better?

[shawndoggy]

you can keep the vaccum in the bag by using a check valve on the vent line if you want to vent. So water flows out the vent but air doesn't flow back through the vent when you drain.

I'm not nitrous, But I'd guess you have about 4" of air between the top of the bag and the bottom of the locker door, but the bag is squishy like a waterbed and would conform to whatever you have in there.

That said, when filling it's not like you wouldn't want to check on it if you have stuff in there... your stuff could easily slip between the hull and bag or engine divider and bag. But there's certainly enough room for 4 vests or something similarly soft on top of a 750 in a locker.

[wakedncsu]

Good news. Would you suggest a vent and check valve or no vent at all? I would guess the vent still needs to be there with a check valve.

[Ndawg12]

Better add bow ballast and/or a new prop to your list of projects if you're going with 750's in the rear.

[shawndoggy]

true dat ndawg. Boat wont get out of the hole with anything less than 1235 with two 750s full and the wake would definitely need bow weight. Upside of 750s imho is not that you'd run both full but that you could run both halfway wakeboarding and one side full for surfing.

[wakedncsu]

I don't plan on 750s. That is the absolute max I would go. I have already ordered the Acme 1235. That is going on the boat as soon as it comes out of storage. I currently have a 300lb sac that i'm planning on using in the bow if I need it. And the boat has the 300lb or so MLS bag in the storage locker. My goal is to put the biggest bag I can without sacrificing storage for everything that is in there. I was planning on relocating the battery. Then loading the lockers with the Standard load out, measuring the distance from the top of the gear to the top of the storage locker and using that as my guide for the bags/tanks that I would use. Listening to all of you really has given me confidence to use bags over tanks. I already knew of the shortcomings that I would take on. Maintenance most specifically. I just wasn't sure if I could leave stuff in the lockers. So bags it is. Thank you so much.

Now my only questions that I can think of are:

Should I use a vent line at all?

What brands are better for the rear lockers?

What other things should I think about?

Thanks again.

Jeremy

[CrystalSurf]

I would suggest spending the extra $70-$80 and get the 750lb bags. Even if you don't plan to fill them full for wakeboarding, it gives you some nice optionality. If you are not filling them full, then you will have a fair bit of storage room left. Also, you will be glad you have them if you decide to surf. You will need to reinforce the engine divider wall with the 750s, but that is not hard to do.

[Rmack]

Thank you so much guys. Rmack, do you leave all that stuff in there while filling the bags? I worry about pressure wasn't directed at the bag so much as the pump putting water in the bag. My plan is to use to Jabsco/Johnson reversible pumps. One for each bag. Mount them near the transmission with thru-hull fittings and port over flow out each side on the rear. If I go with the bags would the pumps be able to fill them without having to empty the storage lockers to fill and then put all the storage back in the locker? Also, with a bag should I vent?

Thanks

Jeremy

Jeremy,

I used the 375lb fly high tube sacs in my 2000 lsv. The reason I went the the Tube Sacs was they provided the lowest clearance with the most amount of weight and fit under the rear seats. The Sac took up 1/3 of the total height of the locker and about 3/4 of the total width.

I did leave all my jackets and ropes in the locker when filling and draining, but I did have to remove the boards when filling.

I ran the Jabsco Pumps (separate) on the port and starboard side of the trans and used the fill port as the drain port. You should run a vent tube for each, instead of a check valve I installed a manual shut off valve.

[wakedncsu]

Rmack, I don't understand what you mean by manual shutoff valve?

[Rmack]

the proper term is a ball valve. You turn the lever and it opens you turn the lever in it closes.you can find them in the plumbing section at Home Depot.

Look at my ballast pumps. The brass fitting with the green handle is a ball valve.

http://2012malibumcglinch.shutterfly.com/288

Edited January 12, 2013 by Rmack

[wakedncsu]

Ok. I misread your statement. I thought you were saying you had a manual valve on your vent line. It has always been my intent to install a ball valve at the thru hull. Would a one way on the vent line be beneficial in pulling the water out and flattening the bags in draining? Or am I over complicating things?

[Rmack]

I put a ball valve on my vent line instead of a one way. Either way will work.

[TallRedRider]

Now my only questions that I can think of are:

Should I use a vent line at all?

What brands are better for the rear lockers?

What other things should I think about?

Thanks again.

Jeremy

I think it is personal preference. I get some ADD when on the lake, so flipping a switch and watching a bag in the storage compartment for 5 minutes just ain't gonna happen. Without a vent line, I would either burst a bag or pop a fitting off the sack and have 400 pounds of water in my bilge, so for me a vent line is a must for sacks that are in compartments. When I hear the sack flowing out the vent line, I know I am good and don't have to watch it closely. Also with kids and such around, sitting there with the hatch open is not very enjoyable, as they like to jump in while the ballast is filling.

Having said that, I put a 1 inch hose that goes to a sack that I lay in the walkway, and it does not have a vent, but it is also right in front of me, and I haven't seemed to lose track of that one yet, but again, it is staring me in the face while filling, so I seem to keep a better eye on it.

I think Fly High has run away with the market as far as sacks go, and probably for good reason. I have seen a few up and coming, but Fly HIgh is putting out some stiff competition. The Sumo Sacks look great, but if they are not going to be any cheaper, then why?

I would think about discharging out the side. If you just reverse the Jabsco pump, then it pushes water out the bottom and you need to watch until the sack is flat. Consider putting a check valve and then having the discharge flow over the side, like this:

Edited January 13, 2013 by TallRedRider

[wakedncsu]

What are your thoughts on the one way check valves? I like the schematic you provided TallRedRider; however, I would rather put one two holes in the boat instead of three. If I routed the drain line on the Y pipe shown to the vent line above another check valve I could provide the same function with only one hole on the side of the boat per bag. Thoughts?

Here is my attempt at paint...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge74r9f66cc8l1i/reversible_pump_ballast_system_diagram-altered.jpg

Edited January 14, 2013 by wakedncsu

[Bradley Thornton]

What are your thoughts on the one way check valves? I like the schematic you provided TallRedRider; however, I would rather put one two holes in the boat instead of three. If I routed the drain line on the Y pipe shown to the vent line above another check valve I could provide the same function with only one hole on the side of the boat per bag. Thoughts?

Here is my attempt at paint...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge74r9f66cc8l1i/reversible_pump_ballast_system_diagram-altered.jpg

This is how I did it you do need to add a check valve between the bag and the over flow so when you pump it out it doesn't back feed. I have had a little problem with the pump getting air from it getting past the check valve. Make sure that it is set up so the flap will stay closed. Still need to fix mine.

[spencer]

Here is the diagram that was talked about. I personally would rather see customers add another thru-hull. The system could have problems with air entering through the vent line which I guess can be eliminated with yet another check valve in the system. Save the headache by adding another thru-hull fitting.

[wakedncsu]

I don't see the difference between these two diagrams other than a second hole. Seems to me either way you would need to add a third check valve to keep air out of the system? Please let me know if I am not understanding the diagram. Both schematic are routing the same way to me.

vs

[Bradley Thornton]

Your right they are the same just an extra hole.

Place to find the diagram for the wiring. Just look under electrical.

http://www.bakesonline.com/boatinfo.aspx#Ballast