2k to redo my stereo system. what route would you take?

[Colby2ya]

So during the winter, i plan on redoing my stereo system. I have a bad ground somewhere, so i'm get all new wires, rca's, everything. Looking for some help to deicide what brands and types to go with from rca's to speakers. I'm even thinking about not using a head unit, and just use a equalizer, i think exile makes a good one where you can plug up 3 amps and use your ipod. So here's my set-up, 2007 VLX, 4 titan cans on the tower, and 4 cabin speakers and 1 10" sub. My plan is to replace my speakers, but i want to keep my titan cans, i believe they are 6". I want 3 amps..one to power the tower speakers, cabin speakers, and sub. I was thinking about going the JL route with everything... sooo 2k...what would you do?

[MLA]

First thing, what symptom are you experiencing that leads you to believe you have a bad ground? Nothing wrong with installing all new RCA cable, speaker wiring, amp cabling, ect. But, it may not be a bad wire, just may be how the current system is wired. I would want to know what the root cause of my issue is, so I can be sure to address it with the new scheme.

Second, what part of the current system is the weakest? What are do you want to improve the most, as this may consume the largest portion of the budget. If your goal with the tower zone it to project audible music to the rider, then 4 new coax based drivers will struggle to get it done, and it will take a lot of power to do it. This is going to steer you in the HLCD direction. Not too many HLCD options that can be purchased in raw driver form, so replacing the pods would need to be considered. Getting the most out of HLCDs takes solid amp power as well. If a surf setup is your goal, then there are a few direct replacement options for your existing pods and plenty of good amp choices to match. If you really want to step up the bass output, then a solid 12 with a good box is in order. Now, to keep the bass from over powering the mids and highs, you may needs to consider adding in a 3rd pair of in-boats.

At a minimum, two amps are ideal, one for the tower zone and one for the in-boat zone, which I like to include the sub. Depending on your in-boat speaker and sub choice, you may be able to go with a 5 or 6 chnl amp, but then again, you may be better served with dedicated in-boat and sub amps. So leave amp choices for last.

The available space for a sub box is going to drive the enclosure size and type, which in turn, will influence the actual sub choice. Figure out what the gross volume you can do, then choose the right woofer that fits within that given perimeter. You need to put the horse before the cart so you dont end up with a square peg and a round hole. The best woofer is the one in the correct box and well matched power.

There are plenty of ways to go head-unitless. A simple Zone Volume Controller/Lone driver or a basic line driver with line level POT's before the amp, or an EQ. Some have true in-boat and tower volume control and some work as a fade. Some only have a single EQ feature, and others have separate EQ control for the tower, sub and in-boat zones. One thing to consider though, most only have a basic 3.5MM AUX jack. So no charging and the quality will be lower if you use the MP3's head-phone jack.

I would highly suggest going with hi efficient Class-D or G/H amps, and it looks like you are on that path with brand you mention. Depending on your tower and subwoofer goals, I think you could be in the ball-park with your budget.

[Bradley Thornton]

I'm almost certain your cans are 6.5 this would be good tower speaker. Many crew members have them and they all say they like them do a search. If you like. Shop around some one said they picked up all 4 for like 250.

http://www.kicker.com/KM65002

As far as the rest MLA can go way over my head I have Rockford Fosgate love the look and the sound. Speakers and amps.

[wakesetter8796]

Do you have any amps at all currently?

[nyryan2001]

I can vouch for the Exile ZLD. I love it. Single cheapest best addition to my system.

If you only have 4 cabin speakers, you gotta make them really count. Go high end on those, Exile or Wetsounds, and power them a little over their RMS rating.

On your amps, most folks are liking these full range class D's. Smaller and run cooler, more efficient.

I swapped to an NVX class D for my REV10s, very happy with it.

Subs- how froggy do you wanna get?

[Colby2ya]

I'm almost certain your cans are 6.5 this would be good tower speaker. Many crew members have them and they all say they like them do a search. If you like. Shop around some one said they picked up all 4 for like 250.

http://www.kicker.co...r.com/KM65002

As far as the rest MLA can go way over my head I have Rockford Fosgate love the look and the sound. Speakers and amps.

that link didn't work.

but i currently have old school punch amps that over heat very easily

[Colby2ya]

oh and also i have a bad ground b/c i can hear my engine noise through my speakers. plus i just wanna redo all of that

[MLA]

If your boat has dual batteries, id bet the amps and head-unit are not sharing the same battery reference point. This is the leading cause of unwanted engine noise.

Try this link while it last http://www.kicker.com/KM65002

[Bradley Thornton]

MLA was still working but just in case. Just Google Kicker KM6500.2.

[wakesetter8796]

I'd get the kicker system with a good amp like harpoon.....

[wakesetter8796]

For the sub, a mono block amp, maybe 500 or 750 watt, and a 400.4 for the interiors.

[robtr8]

IMHHEO: The ZLD is the single best thing you can add for sound quality and control. You don't have to use the headphone jack if your in the Apple camp. This works very well: http://www.radtech.us/Products/procable-30pin-dock-usb-audio.aspx You can cheap out on the boat speakers and use the West Marine Pro drivers which are on sale now, http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100977&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50157&subdeptNum=50197&classNum=50199 They aren't overly bright like most drivers which can be really annoying when under way, they also aren't terribly efficient so a good amp is necessary. As an alternative to JL amps check out the Arc Audio KS.Mini's. If your sub-woofer is in good shape you can improve it's performance by building a better box, good winter project to discover what "better" means, start reading DIYMA.COM. If you want to keep the Titan cans then the Kicker's are the way to go but, I went down that road and am ultimately not happy with the end result. It is definitely worth it to not cheap out here and get the larger WS or Exile tower speakers.

[Colby2ya]

thanks for the help! What about wires? Do different type of RCAs really matter that much compared to like walmart RCAs. Also on speaker wire, certain gauge wire or brand ??

[Colby2ya]

If your boat has dual batteries, id bet the amps and head-unit are not sharing the same battery reference point. This is the leading cause of unwanted engine noise.

Try this link while it last http://www.kicker.com/KM65002

thanks. is that price for one mid range speaker????

[MLA]

thanks for the help! What about wires? Do different type of RCAs really matter that much compared to like walmart RCAs. Also on speaker wire, certain gauge wire or brand ??

Quality RCA cables will last longer with less chance of pulling apart at the ends, but price has little to do with preventing unwanted noise. I would not buy the bargain-basement flea market ones, nor would I spring for the most expensive.

14ga wire is perfect for most any in-boat speaker setup.12 for a sub. 14 or 12 for a tower, depending on the speaker and the power we are pushing to it. Bargain-basement amp cabling tends to be slim on wire strands and mostly insulation. Actual amp cabling is easier to work with then battery cable. battery cable has less strands per cross section, so its stiffer and harder to bend. Amp cable has a higher strand count so its easier make bends.

thanks. is that price for one mid range speaker????

The KM6500.2 is a 4 pod setup that uncludes 2 6.5 mid-bass drivers and 2 HLCD horns in one package. It should not be sold any other way, except you can purchase an extra set of KM6500 mids to go along with the KM6200.2 for a 6 pod setup.

[CRF-Rider]

... sooo 2k...what would you do?

A lot of good opinions here. I'll give you mine. Audio is a hobby of mine, I've learned a few things a long the way that may help you.

*In-boat speakers (I'd do 6). Bravox M6-ODB. Identical speaker to another very popular marine speaker brand that I will not mention. $336

http://www.amazon.com/BRAVOX-M6-ODB-6-5-inch-Marine-Speaker/dp/B0072JK0EI/ref=?ie=UTF8&m=A24CKMLC3AHSIY

*Amp for in-boat speakers. PPI P900.4 $210

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_38338_Precision-Power-PPI-P900.4.html

*Tower speakers: You can go with the Kicker setup like others mentioned, or another option would be to get the Krypt 6.5 HLCD's. I've seen them on ebay for $250/pair. Either way $500

*Amp for tower speakers. $210 PPI P900.4

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_38338_Precision-Power-PPI-P900.4.html

*Sub: Sundown SA-12. You probably haven't heard of Sundown because their products aren't sold at big box stores, but a simple google search will give you more than enough reasons to see why I'm recommending it. $195

http://www.amazon.com/SA-12-D2-Sundown-Series-Subwoofer/dp/B003ZW80TS

*Sub Amp: PPI P1000.1 $239

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_38335_Precision-Power-PPI-P1000.1.html

*Sub box. Build your own legit box. Ported @ 35hz, 1.5^ft net. $50

*Clarion EQS746. This will give you independent control of 3 zones (Sub, Tower Speakers, In-boat speakers) $55

http://www.amazon.com/Clarion-EQS746-Graphic-Equalizer-Crossover/dp/B000EZV3T8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1351543621&sr=1-1&keywords=clarion+eqs746

*PAC IS75. This will give you 3.5mm input and Ipod/Iphone input with charging capability. Plugs into input on the Clarion EQS. $27

http://www.amazon.com/iSimple-IS75-PolyWire-Universal-Interface/dp/B001TH8O7E

That's $1822. The remainder will be spent on install accessories.

Get you power/ground wire from coppercableman on ebay. Outstanding wire.... http://www.ebay.com/sch/coppercableman/m.html

Get you speaker wire and RCA's from monoprice.com. Cannot be beat for the price, very high quality. http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218

So there's a setup that will perform equal to or better than many stereos that have 4-5x's more invensted.

If you understand crossovers you can try an active setup with componenet speakers. The PPI amps I recommended have bandpass filters that will get the job done. After trying a number of different coaxial speakers on my boat (popular and well regarded marine speaker brands), I realized there simply wasn't a coaxial speaker that was going to keep up with the copious amount of SPL from sub. I went from 8 coaxials to 4 Crescendo PWX 6.5 and 4 Pyramid TW44. Total cost: $172. Completly anhilated the coaxials in every respect.

http://store.crescendoaudio.com/pwx-6-5-mid-range/

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=270-125

here's a couple of vids on youtube demoing the Crescendo PWX's

[Bradley Thornton]

When it comes to sizes wire this will help you out.

http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm

[NorrisMike]

A lot of good opinions here. I'll give you mine. Audio is a hobby of mine, I've learned a few things a long the way that may help you.

*In-boat speakers (I'd do 6). Bravox M6-ODB. Identical speaker to another very popular marine speaker brand that I will not mention. $336

http://www.amazon.co...=A24CKMLC3AHSIY

*Amp for in-boat speakers. PPI P900.4 $210

http://www.sonicelec...PPI-P900.4.html

*Tower speakers: You can go with the Kicker setup like others mentioned, or another option would be to get the Krypt 6.5 HLCD's. I've seen them on ebay for $250/pair. Either way $500

*Amp for tower speakers. $210 PPI P900.4

http://www.sonicelec...PPI-P900.4.html

*Sub: Sundown SA-12. You probably haven't heard of Sundown because their products aren't sold at big box stores, but a simple google search will give you more than enough reasons to see why I'm recommending it. $195

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B003ZW80TS

*Sub Amp: PPI P1000.1 $239

http://www.sonicelec...PI-P1000.1.html

*Sub box. Build your own legit box. Ported @ 35hz, 1.5^ft net. $50

*Clarion EQS746. This will give you independent control of 3 zones (Sub, Tower Speakers, In-boat speakers) $55

http://www.amazon.co...=clarion eqs746

*PAC IS75. This will give you 3.5mm input and Ipod/Iphone input with charging capability. Plugs into input on the Clarion EQS. $27

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B001TH8O7E

That's $1822. The remainder will be spent on install accessories.

Get you power/ground wire from coppercableman on ebay. Outstanding wire.... http://www.ebay.com/...cableman/m.html

Get you speaker wire and RCA's from monoprice.com. Cannot be beat for the price, very high quality. http://www.monoprice...102&cp_id=10218

So there's a setup that will perform equal to or better than many stereos that have 4-5x's more invensted.

I agree with everything mentioned. I would not go any other way with the amps. As another sub option - check out the IDQ-12". I have it in a sealed 1cuft box and it performs very well. I have it hooked up to the PPI 600.2 amp and it pushes it great. That would be a slightly cheaper route to go. For wiring, to make it easier, I figured out exactly what I needed for wiring and ordered everything from http://www.knukonceptz.com/ and it cost me around $200 all in to re-do it all. Get the Clarion EQ too as it is a very nice option to have. I am very pleased with how everything turned out.

Edit***- I was going to buy this sub but it was out of stock at the time. it is worth a look. and prob the least expensive option. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-464

I have seen it go on sale for $129.

Edited October 30, 2012 by NorrisMike

[wakesetter8796]

Those are great options..... We have a RF P3 12 inch and it is nice.....

[CRF-Rider]

I agree with everything mentioned. I would not go any other way with the amps. As another sub option - check out the IDQ-12". I have it in a sealed 1cuft box and it performs very well. I have it hooked up to the PPI 600.2 amp and it pushes it great. That would be a slightly cheaper route to go. For wiring, to make it easier, I figured out exactly what I needed for wiring and ordered everything from http://www.knukonceptz.com/ and it cost me around $200 all in to re-do it all. Get the Clarion EQ too as it is a very nice option to have. I am very pleased with how everything turned out.

Edit***- I was going to buy this sub but it was out of stock at the time. it is worth a look. and prob the least expensive option. http://www.parts-exp...tnumber=295-464

I have seen it go on sale for $129.

Image Dynamics will always have a special place in my heart. They've put out some top notch products over the years and lead the way with horn drivers in mobile applications. I don't think many know this, but they designed the Skylon speakers. With Eric Stevens leaving ID I wonder about their future.

As much as I love the IDQ it wouldn't be my first choice for a boat due to the music I listen to and the SPL levels I want to acheive. The IDQ would definitely be in my top 3 for an SQ setup in a car, though. Another stellar sub is the IDMAX, I've heard one on a boat before and was impressed with the output/SQ.

To the OP, a proper box is more important than the sub. I'd rather have an awful sub in a great box, than a great sub in an awful box. I've seen a lot of boat installs with excessive high dollar subs with mediorce at best performance. It's 90% install, 10% gear.

[Colby2ya]

CRF-rider thanks for all the info man, that really will help me out! Just one question right now..with them kicker horn tower speakers and the distant it makes the music travel to the wakeboarder, it's tolerable to with stand the loudness for the people riding in the boat??

[wakesetter8796]

Just like any 6.5 inch HLCD, it might be a little harsh in the boat. JMO though.

[Earmark Marine]

The level of harshness and discomfort in the boat from the tower speakers has to do with several issues.

First, the location of the tower speakers. If the speakers are positioned low (especially if the tower is low) and leans forward there will be more direct radiation to the rear cockpit occupants. Depending on the boat you may not have a great deal of control on this one.

Second, if either the tower amplifier or tower speakers are driven into clipping this type of distortion is particularly annoying to the rear cockpit occupants. No one else is in as good of a position to hear a clipped signal. Having reserve power and more robust speakers that are driven under capacity will help.

Third, keep in mind that the more amplitude you are driving at wake range the more amplitude you have near field and in the rear of the boat. Close in is simply way louder. Louder tower speakers are much louder in the boat. The dispersion patterns of various types of speakers are somewhat different but not enough to provide any real in the boat relief. This is unavoidable and can only be corrected with the overall volume.

Fourth, a brighter speaker (usually a smaller pod and smaller driver) is going to irritate the most sensitive upper midrange/lower treble region of human hearing where you are most sensitive and therefore the pain threshold is reached at its earliest point. A larger, warmer and more balanced tower speaker will be decidedly less irritating in the boat at the same 'average' amplitude. Some are more sensitive than others to this. Women, in general, are more sensitive to treble harshness. And some have incurred such permanent damage to their own hearing from repetitive and very loud music that they do not hear what annoys other occupants. A little equalization can correct some of this but it also reduces the peak output which reduces projection to the rider.

Fifth, its nice to have an adjustable collar on a verticle tower surface so that you can aim the tower speakers slightly upward when the boat is pulling and squatted. This reduces the off-axis radiation into the boat and places the speakers on more of a horizontal plane with the water level.

David

[CRF-Rider]

CRF-rider thanks for all the info man, that really will help me out! Just one question right now..with them kicker horn tower speakers and the distant it makes the music travel to the wakeboarder, it's tolerable to with stand the loudness for the people riding in the boat??

No problem bro. You won't have any issues with music being too load for the passengers that can't easily be corrected. If you get the EQS746 you'll have pretty good control of the upper frequency ranges. You'll also be able to fade the in-boat, tower speakers, and subwoofer independently. I think the horns in Kickers component setup are crossed pretty low which helps with tonning the "harshness" out.

If all else fails, stock some ear plugs on your boat

[Nitrousbird]

*Amp for tower speakers. $210 PPI P900.4

http://www.sonicelec...PPI-P900.4.html

This is the amp to go with if you can find it in stock, but they are usually sold out. This amp is sold under several different brands with slightly different looks - PPI being the cheapest when you can find it (though PPI overrates the power output). I have the same amp but from Polk, the D4000.4.

Here is what I would build for 2k:

Amps:

Polk D4000.4 for the towers. (~$230)

Polk D5000.5 for the in-boats and sub. ($300)

Towers:

Exile SXT65 surf speakers. This one you will need to wait for a demo deal, but they happen often enough if you watch for them. $375/pair, you will need 2 pair ($750). This is what I did and they sound really good and look great - way better than some of the cheaper alternatives.

In-Boats:

Polk DB651 $60/pair. 3 pair ($180)

Sub:

Polk MM1240DVC: $145

That's $1600. It leaves you $400 for wiring, sub box, and whatever you want to do for an input (Exile ZLD, Clarion's nicely priced unit, a lower priced head unit, etc.).

Don't cheap out on the tower speakers or get sucked into spending more on some of these other amps out there...these Polk / PPI / Hertz / NVX / Nakamichi series of Class D amps are the best bang for the buck on the market. I considered going with an Arc Audio amp and some other brands but after researching these amps I decided to give one a try and have been very pleased with the results.