Plumbing in New Ballast

[mnhays]

So I'm starting to plan the plumbing for my new ballast I have 3 old sacs and currently only a Jabsco pump I got them from a friend who boat his boat and didn't want any of those items, but I'm wondering about whether or not it's worth it to plumb the 2 sacs in the back with one pump or if I'll want two. Also, these are really old sacs they're fine currently but they're the old blue sacs with 2 connections on the bottom and then they slip into a cover. I am just wondering about venting without one of the connections on the top, is this going to be a problem at all?

[Simo]

A vent hole on the bottom is not a vent hole but more of a drain. It will keep you from over-filling but if any air gets in there this setuo will not release it.

[mnhays]

A vent hole on the bottom is not a vent hole but more of a drain. It will keep you from over-filling but if any air gets in there this setuo will not release it.

That's what I thought I don't get it the bags have two holes on the bottom, so I don't really get how that would work out for me, will I not be able to run a system this way?

[mnhays]

Also do people use their garboard drain for the water intake ever? to avoid having to drill a hole..I never thought of that.

[Nitrousbird]

- Buy better sacks. The last thing you want to do is deal with covers, waterbed fittings, no vent, etc. 750's will fit nicely in the lockers. You can even cram a bit bigger (I'll be upgrading my port to 1100 for surfing this winter - it won't fill all the way but should probably get to the 1000lb range).

- You can use the T-handle to feed 1 pump. It is 3/4". One feed per pump, no splitting.

- Assuming you are doing decent sized sacks in the back, one pump will be S-L-O-W! You want a pump per bag

- Go all 1". Doesn't cost much more, but will improve water flow.

Remember - cheaping out will end up ticking you off. The last thing you want to do when on the water is mess with a problematic ballast system. Do it right the first time and you will enjoy it much more.

[mnhays]

- Buy better sacks. The last thing you want to do is deal with covers, waterbed fittings, no vent, etc. 750's will fit nicely in the lockers. You can even cram a bit bigger (I'll be upgrading my port to 1100 for surfing this winter - it won't fill all the way but should probably get to the 1000lb range).

- You can use the T-handle to feed 1 pump. It is 3/4". One feed per pump, no splitting.

- Assuming you are doing decent sized sacks in the back, one pump will be S-L-O-W! You want a pump per bag

- Go all 1". Doesn't cost much more, but will improve water flow.

Remember - cheaping out will end up ticking you off. The last thing you want to do when on the water is mess with a problematic ballast system. Do it right the first time and you will enjoy it much more.

Do you mean use a T to feed both pumps with one thru hole intake?

and also, do people reinforce the engine walls to keep the sacs from protruding, and is moving the battery what people do, or does everyone block off the battery with a milk crate or something? I've seen that done.

Edited July 18, 2012 by mnhays

[Nitrousbird]

- DO NOT T-off a single thru-hull to feed two pumps. When I stated "T" I was talking about the T-handle drain that is next to the V-drive. You can use that as a feed line.

- The engine dividers are fine up to a 750lb sack. Above that, reinforcement is required.

- There are mixed opinions on the battery. Some say you must relocate, others say its okay if it is in a battery box. Mine is in a battery box and I haven't relocated it - yet. I plan to this winter and not a bad idea to do so. That said, you can get away with it; I have for last season and this season, and the previous owner did as well.

[mnhays]

- DO NOT T-off a single thru-hull to feed two pumps. When I stated "T" I was talking about the T-handle drain that is next to the V-drive. You can use that as a feed line.

- The engine dividers are fine up to a 750lb sack. Above that, reinforcement is required.

- There are mixed opinions on the battery. Some say you must relocate, others say its okay if it is in a battery box. Mine is in a battery box and I haven't relocated it - yet. I plan to this winter and not a bad idea to do so. That said, you can get away with it; I have for last season and this season, and the previous owner did as well.

Alright I understand what you're saying use that for one of my bags and then install a 1" for my other bag. That makes more sense. My engine dividers are really flimsy so I'm going to reinforce them anyway so I have the extra strength. But thanks for the input nitrousbird, I might hit you up when I run into problems!

[WaterJunkie]

mnhays - Don't know if your planning on using both sacks at once for boarding or one at a time for surfing. I am thinking of upgrading my setup from a piggybacked 750 on port side for surfing. I am planning on using a reversable Jabsco pump and using the garboard drain by the v-drive. The thing I wanted to point out is that I am planning on one pump and two 750's. I will use a diverter valve to switch the valve from starboard bag to port bag depending on which side I am surfing. I can vent the bags as I do now with a y connector on the current vent for the factory tanks. Just sayin .. good luck.

[Nitrousbird]

mnhays - Don't know if your planning on using both sacks at once for boarding or one at a time for surfing. I am thinking of upgrading my setup from a piggybacked 750 on port side for surfing. I am planning on using a reversable Jabsco pump and using the garboard drain by the v-drive. The thing I wanted to point out is that I am planning on one pump and two 750's. I will use a diverter valve to switch the valve from starboard bag to port bag depending on which side I am surfing. I can vent the bags as I do now with a y connector on the current vent for the factory tanks. Just sayin .. good luck.

I would suggest this ONLY if plan to surf and never wakeboard. Even then, switching sides would still be slow unless you use a transfer pump setup. I would suggest just doing it right with 2 pumps.

As for using the T-handle drain port, you will need to buy a 90 degree elbow in order to have clearance for the ball-valve shut-off. If you try to thread on the ball valve to the port you won't have enough clearance with the V-drive. I have three thru hulls (used the T-handle for my front bag pump, and 1" mushroom style thru-hulls for my rear pumps). I was very picky about the thru-hull locations, as I didn't want to limit access from working on the boat since the engine bay is tight - this resulted in a real PITA situation of getting the thru-hull's in and ball valves on. This required a 90 degree on the thru-hull next to my fresh water intake as well, and was a nightmare to get all threaded on. But now that the work is done (and the cuts on my arms fully healed), the setup is ideal as I used none of the valuable access room for working around the motor.

[mnhays]

Does the pump really act as a stopper to keep the water from flowing out while the bags are full, how is the water kept in the bags or how is more water forced from being pushed into the bags?

[Nitrousbird]

Does the pump really act as a stopper to keep the water from flowing out while the bags are full, how is the water kept in the bags or how is more water forced from being pushed into the bags?

The impellar pumps act as a stopper - they don't seem to let any water by at all. Aerator pumps DO NOT act as stopper and other tricks need to be applied in order to prevent auto-fill and auto-drain conditions.

[mnhays]

The impellar pumps act as a stopper - they don't seem to let any water by at all. Aerator pumps DO NOT act as stopper and other tricks need to be applied in order to prevent auto-fill and auto-drain conditions.

I have one last question ahhaa, how much 12 gauge wire will I need to wire in the system to rocker switches on my dash and will I need a fuse on the positive line connecting it to the battery?

[mnhays]

Also, when draining the water from the bags, water stays in the line from the intake to the pump correct? and you just lose that once the boat is out of the water? This doesn't cause any problems.?

[Nitrousbird]

I have one last question ahhaa, how much 12 gauge wire will I need to wire in the system to rocker switches on my dash and will I need a fuse on the positive line connecting it to the battery?

I can't recall the length anymore. It really depends a bit on how you route it - break out the tape measure. I bought 50' of 12awg, but it was pretty close. I'd suggest 25' per pump just to be safe.

There are no fuses in my system; each pump is off of a dedicated circuit breaker on the factory breaker panel. Not sure of the panel is the same for your year as 2001 is when Malibu updated the dash. 15 amp breaker for each pump works perfectly. I have never had the breaker pop, even with all 3 going with the boat turned off (off = lower voltage = higher current draw). None of this is wired to the battery and no relays as the switches are rated for 20amps each. I also find the pumps do not get hot even after extended use - something others warned about but not in my experience at all.

Also, when draining the water from the bags, water stays in the line from the intake to the pump correct? and you just lose that once the boat is out of the water? This doesn't cause any problems.?

Yes, and no problems. You'll never even see it come out, as it probably takes 1/2 a second tops to drain, and would do it as soon as the bottom of the boat loses contact with the water. Impeller pumps don't have priming issues like aerator pumps.

[mnhays]

thanks for all your help nitrousbird!

great guy right there ^

[WaterJunkie]

I would suggest this ONLY if plan to surf and never wakeboard. Even then, switching sides would still be slow unless you use a transfer pump setup. I would suggest just doing it right with 2 pumps.

As for using the T-handle drain port, you will need to buy a 90 degree elbow in order to have clearance for the ball-valve shut-off. If you try to thread on the ball valve to the port you won't have enough clearance with the V-drive. I have three thru hulls (used the T-handle for my front bag pump, and 1" mushroom style thru-hulls for my rear pumps). I was very picky about the thru-hull locations, as I didn't want to limit access from working on the boat since the engine bay is tight - this resulted in a real PITA situation of getting the thru-hull's in and ball valves on. This required a 90 degree on the thru-hull next to my fresh water intake as well, and was a nightmare to get all threaded on. But now that the work is done (and the cuts on my arms fully healed), the setup is ideal as I used none of the valuable access room for working around the motor.

Thanks for input Nitrousbird.. as for the ONLY surfing comment. We do wakeboard, but I have factory tanks also that I can use for boarding, and usually have plenty of wake between the factory tanks and the wedge. The only reason for the 750's is for surfing. I was wanting to isolate the 750 from the factory tank and have the option to move the bag to either side without have to do another thru hull fitting.

[mnhays]

Thanks for input Nitrousbird.. as for the ONLY surfing comment. We do wakeboard, but I have factory tanks also that I can use for boarding, and usually have plenty of wake between the factory tanks and the wedge. The only reason for the 750's is for surfing. I was wanting to isolate the 750 from the factory tank and have the option to move the bag to either side without have to do another thru hull fitting.

It's just that he's saying it will take longer to get to fill into that bag.

[mnhays]

I have some questions.

1. When people move their battery do they worry about losing current and not being able to start their boat when they're running low on 'juice'.

2. How does everyone go about wiring in their pumps and where can I tap into the wiring on my 98 sunsetter VLX so that I can easily do this part, as I would say that electrical is my downfall when it comes to projects like automating a ballast system like this!

[Nitrousbird]

I have some questions.

1. When people move their battery do they worry about losing current and not being able to start their boat when they're running low on 'juice'.

2. How does everyone go about wiring in their pumps and where can I tap into the wiring on my 98 sunsetter VLX so that I can easily do this part, as I would say that electrical is my downfall when it comes to projects like automating a ballast system like this!

1. You need a sufficient gauge of wire for the battery. I would suggest at least 0 AWG.

2. You should be able to use the exisiting circuit breaker panel. I have 3 pumps and had three open breakers; one was for tower lights (don't have), one was for the factory MLS, and one was just listed as AUX if I recall correctly. You wire each pump to the switch, and then wire the switch to the circuit breaker and the ground distribution block. I just followed the factory wiring path from the back of the boat to under the dash for running the wiring.