Tower speaker loud in boat?

[Indyxc]

Hey guys,

Need some reference info. So I semi tuned my new stereo so far which is 2 pro 60s and stock sony cabin speakers both powered by their own amp.

While riding I can hear the pro 60s kinda, but my girlfriend complains at that level the tower speakers are too loud in the drivers seat. I've tuned the cabin speakers down to a normal level when the tower speakers are loud.

Is this normal, or do the pro 60s just not project sound like I thought they might? Time for rev 8s?

[shawndoggy]

Step one would probably be some form of zone control so you can turn your cabin speakers off, or at least WAY down when the towers are cranking. You can probably do this with the fader on your deck? That'd be the cheapest solution. From there you are looking at (from cheapest to most expensive) PAC LC-1s, the kicker zone driver, a clarion eqs746, exile zld, or wetsounds ws420. In this way the onboard volume governor (the girlfriend) will give you all that the stereo has to give.

Step two would be adding more speaker surface area (which also probably means another amp to power them?).

Step three would be reducing engine noise with a Fresh Air Exhaust

What tower do you have?

I have two pairs of Rev10s, with each can getting 400w. I will say that even with that much speaker surface area and that much power, my experience is much like yours... you can "kinda" hear the speakers, but it's not like a rolling stones concert back there. Wind, water, and engine noise all really limit the sound to the rider. And even with the "high and back" nature of the tower on my boat it's loud as a mofo in the boat. Skullcrushingly loud. As soon as I crash or drop the handle, the boat can clearly be heard for miles. It's the other sounds at the end of the rope that really detract from the rider's ability to hear. I have tried a FAE, and it does make a big (but not extraordinary) difference in the sounds that the speakers have to compete with at the end of the rope.

I've taken the tower experience about as far as I want to, and I'm strongly considering going back the other way next season, and putting direct radiating (surf style) speakers on the tower and just give up on the myth of getting true sound to a wakeboarder. I pollute the whole lake with my music choice... which I wouldn't feel so bad about if is sounded great to me. The fact that it is still kinda "meh" at the end of the rope makes being "that guy" not so worth it though imho.

I remember reading a few threads from Skyskier who came to the same conclusions after testing every tower speaker setup possible.

Edited June 19, 2012 by shawndoggy

[ffdawg]

I've taken the tower experience about as far as I want to, and I'm strongly considering going back the other way next season, and putting direct radiating (surf style) speakers on the tower and just give up on the myth of getting true sound to a wakeboarder. I pollute the whole lake with my music choice... which I wouldn't feel so bad about if is sounded great to me. The fact that it is still kinda "meh" at the end of the rope makes being "that guy" not so worth it though imho.

I remember reading a few threads from Skyskier who came to the same conclusions after testing every tower speaker setup possible.

I completely agree with shawndoggy here. If you truly want quality sound all the way out to the rider, you're gonna have bleeding ears in the boat, pissed-off people on your lake, or both. It is simply obnoxious and inconsiderate to be blasting music, no matter what type it is, so loud that the entire lake can hear it. Get yourself a quality system that sounds great in and around the boat. It'll still go loud and you can enjoy it while surfing, but trying to project it 80' out from running boat is irresponsible and disturbing to other people's lake enjoyment.

[augie09]

the boat crew needs to be in the right mind set and lake fairly empty for us to turn the tower up for the rider to hear. That rarely happens, but I'm still glad to have the setup for the few runs I can blast the music, plus when under way the tower fills out the sound nicely. With the WS420 and the right tweaking, I can't even tell where the music is coming from, tower or incabin, and it's still easy to carry on a conversation.

[Indyxc]

Shawn,

That's exactly the kind of reference information I was looking for. You bring up a lot of good points, both of you. I just honestly didn't know what to expect from behind the boat. I've ridden behind a couple of other wakeboard boats with "regular" tower speakers, and I really couldn't hear them.

As far as zone control, the cabin speakers and tower have their own amps, so the way I set them up is even when the tower is blaring, the cabin speakrs are at thier loudest as well, but still well below annoying loud like the cabin speakrs. Also since they are on seperated RCA output, I can mute the front channel (tower speakers), or vica versa. That isn't the problem, it's just to hear the tower speakers while boarding, they are WAY too loud in the boat. They are on the top portion of the Deception Tower, which is far forward and of course low.

With HLCDs, with some of the videos I have been seeing online, I guess I was expecting rock concert style sound back there. I can hear it, but like Shawn mentions, the boat exhaust and the wind at certain angles, especially when cutting hard into the wind, completely drowns out the sound. And that makes sense really. I guess I just didn't know what to expect. In the driveway they sounded fantastic. I could hear them in my backyard, and it was like the videos you see online, and I was thrilled. On the lake, it's "meh", cool but not what I expected.

Which brings me to your guys next point. I live on a lake of about 550 acres, where you kind of get to know everybody. You guys are right, when you come to a stop after falling, you can then "really" hear the boat. I don't really want to be that guy (why I went with 60s vs 80s too), because everyone knows where you live, and besides common courtesy they can easily find your boat at night. :/

Likewise, I don't really ever float in a party cover, or play my music at the sand bar with the malibu. When we are done boarding, we take the boat back to the lift, and go out on the pontoon so that can take the wear and tear

So really, bottom line with HLCD speakers, be it the Pro 60s, or 2 sets of Rev 10s like in Shawns case, just never really sound that great at the end of the rope, unless you want to obliterate your in boat partcipants, or annoy everyone around the lake. I thought maybe I'd see an improvement with say if I bought Rev 8s, but I guess not! KInda wish I knew that before I bought the Pro 60s!

Edited June 19, 2012 by Indyxc

[Bill_AirJunky]

I feel about the same way as Shawn regarding cranking up the tower speakers. And I've been saying I was going to pull the Dbot5s off my tower & redesign things. Just need to pull the trigger. We party & float a lot & the interior speakers are MORE than enough for that kind of thing.

Another thing is that the Illusion style tower positions the tower speakers way forward compared to other type of towers. This can't help your situation for anyone sitting in the rear of the boat, especially in a 23' or 24' boat.

[Bobby Light]

Shawn,

That's exactly the kind of reference information I was looking for. You bring up a lot of good points, both of you. I just honestly didn't know what to expect from behind the boat. I've ridden behind a couple of other wakeboard boats with "regular" tower speakers, and I really couldn't hear them.

As far as zone control, the cabin speakers and tower have their own amps, so the way I set them up is even when the tower is blaring, the cabin speakrs are at thier loudest as well, but still well below annoying loud like the cabin speakrs. Also since they are on seperated RCA output, I can mute the front channel (tower speakers), or vica versa. That isn't the problem, it's just to hear the tower speakers while boarding, they are WAY too loud in the boat. They are on the top portion of the Deception Tower, which is far forward and of course low.

With HLCDs, with some of the videos I have been seeing online, I guess I was expecting rock concert style sound back there. I can hear it, but like Shawn mentions, the boat exhaust and the wind at certain angles, especially when cutting hard into the wind, completely drowns out the sound. And that makes sense really. I guess I just didn't know what to expect. In the driveway they sounded fantastic. I could hear them in my backyard, and it was like the videos you see online, and I was thrilled. On the lake, it's "meh", cool but not what I expected.

Which brings me to your guys next point. I live on a lake of about 550 acres, where you kind of get to know everybody. You guys are right, when you come to a stop after falling, you can then "really" hear the boat. I don't really want to be that guy (why I went with 60s vs 80s too), because everyone knows where you live, and besides common courtesy they can easily find your boat at night. :/

Likewise, I don't really ever float in a party cover, or play my music at the sand bar with the malibu. When we are done boarding, we take the boat back to the lift, and go out on the pontoon so that can take the wear and tear

So really, bottom line with HLCD speakers, be it the Pro 60s, or 2 sets of Rev 10s like in Shawns case, just never really sound that great at the end of the rope, unless you want to obliterate your in boat partcipants, or annoy everyone around the lake. I thought maybe I'd see an improvement with say if I bought Rev 8s, but I guess not! KInda wish I knew that before I bought the Pro 60s!

Big difference between that and the real world is that you have a stationary camera taking the video that's not being subjected to the exhaust noise 70-80' away from the boat as well as wind noise. Take a video camera at the end of the wakeboard rope and film and that's what you're dealing with.

[Indyxc]

Big difference between that and the real world is that you have a stationary camera taking the video that's not being subjected to the exhaust noise 70-80' away from the boat as well as wind noise. Take a video camera at the end of the wakeboard rope and film and that's what you're dealing with.

Yeah of course, I knew it would be worse, but not as bad as it is. Which then leads me to the idea, that those videos are absolutely worthless unless you want to entertain stationary objects 200 yards away, which you don't.

[gorilla]

I have 4 XM7's and 2 XM9's on my Titan 3 and I can hear it at 80ft and 23mph. But.....so can everybody else on the water. The Titan puts them back far enough that it doesn't kill the ears of people in the boat anymore (Illusion tower sucked). I only run with them cranked when no one else is on the water. A buddy with a 2006 23LSV with the Titan runs NVS speakers on his tower and you can hear those pretty well too. But again, so can everyone else on the water. I love riding with music, helps my brain "slow down" and I can ride the foil better. I will only crank the speakers when partying on shore or if it won't disturb others on the water. There are sections of the Columbia River where I can crank it and no houses around.

[West Coast Rider]

Wow, this is quite interesting to read. I have been seriously considering upgrading my tower speakers to the Exile XM9's to hear while riding.

After reading your comments it seems that I might be better off just having the (cheaper) surf speakers and go with good quality sounding music in and around the boat.

What is your guys honest opinion on the HLCD (horn loaded compression driver's), if given the chance to do it all over again would you have spent the money on the HLCD speakers or gone with a traditional tower speaker (radiating).

How do the HLCD's sound while you're listening, to all the speakers (cabin and towers) just floating between sessions. They are not over powering on the cabin speakers or sound harsh.

Unfortunatly I don't have a dealer in town that I can test listen to these, or have a buddy who has them installed on his boat. So I rely on opinions of others.

Thanks for the comments.

[Fman]

This is a great thread, I am also tired of blasting people out in the boat while riding. I have actually started riding with no music at all. I forgot how great a good wakeboard run feels hearing a small block Chevy running strong, with your board cutting through the water on a late summer evening.

The Rev 10s do crank, but they also blow people out sitting in the back seat.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Fman

[Bill_AirJunky]

A buddy with a 2006 23LSV with the Titan runs NVS speakers on his tower and you can hear those pretty well too. But again, so can everyone else on the water.

Come on, B. Thats a SLIGHT understatement. We've been out on the lake when we could hear Lawrence a couple miles away! I've been at the end of the rope & had to ask him to turn it DOWN a bit because it was TOO LOUD!

I know, I know... if it's too loud, your too old. But those NVSs are insane!

[gorilla]

Come on, B. Thats a SLIGHT understatement. We've been out on the lake when we could hear Lawrence a couple miles away! I've been at the end of the rope & had to ask him to turn it DOWN a bit because it was TOO LOUD!

I know, I know... if it's too loud, your too old. But those NVSs are insane!

I was trying to be "nice" about how loud we have played the stereos. One of perks of riding with LC is the fact he will crank it up when the conditions are right.

Edited June 19, 2012 by gorilla

[Earmark Marine]

It is as simple as stated above. If you have a wall of speakers on the stage of a rock concert, what is loud in the middle of the arena is ridiculous in the front few rows. I've had the misfortune of having those seats before, but never again.

It really doesn't matter if you have broad radiating conventional speakers or narrower radiating horn speakers. The polar pattern of anything is going to be very wide in the immediate proximity and only narrows with a little distance.

So if it is loud at 80 feet it is going to be brutal in the boat. Low and forward leaning towers with low speaker positions on the vertical only make it worse for in-boat occupants and especially for those in the rear of the cockpit which are only about 30 degrees off-axis.

The only control you have is to kill the in-boats and depend solely on the residual of the tower to slightly lower the in boat amplitude, and to choose a larger and warmer speaker to begin with. Or, maybe go with one pair only in the highest position.

We are more sensitive to sound from 2kHz to 6kHz and it is no coincidence that we prematurely experience pain or discomfort in the same region. You can equalize that area for the benefit of the in boat occupants but you simultaneously kill the output at 80 feet.

David

[Bill_AirJunky]

I was trying to be "nice" about how loud we have played the stereos. One of perks of riding with LC is the fact he will crank it up when the conditions are right.

Hehe, gotcha. Didn't want to give those folks with the new Exiles or Wetsounds an inferiority complex, huh.

As I recall he doesn't use any in boat speakers at all in that setup. The NVS actually sound pretty good in the boat. I can see where they would be great on the Columbia. But they would blow away everyone on Sammamish!

Edited June 19, 2012 by Bill_AirJunky

[Wakesetter67]

I have had both styles, Surf Hybrid set up and now the 3 pairs of XM9's I try to be respectful on the river and small lakes and not crank it up so much,at shasta and a few larger lakes it's on.. One thing I love about the Larger Xm9's HLCD is the warm Mid-base feel you get over the co axial speakers, and they don't have to be full blast to hear it, In the boat where I sit it's a whole different sound then directly behind and when you use the ZLD to fade the towers and the cabins it make for a awesome sound, I had a chance to ride a wakeboard for the first time in 10 years and it sounded pretty darn good back there, But your right it's not like it sounds on shore or laying in the water after a face plant, ( Dont think i will try that again for a few years...) But I would not go back to the other style, this by far is my fav...

[nyryan2001]

The Rev 10s do crank, but they also blow people out sitting in the back seat.

I run 1 Pair Rev10s and they are ridiculous loud 80ft back, but still are tolerable for the most part inside the boat....understand a 247 is long, so your head while sitting on that back bench seat is a good 8-9ft away. the sound comes out in a cone shaped blast....the shorter the boat, those inside the boat are closer the to speaker, therefore, more under the speaker and under the blast area.

Things you can do to mitigate ear bleeding while running real tower loud speakers:

1. ensure you have them as high up on the tower as possible. you wanna get that sound cannon above their heads.

2. slightly angle the speaker up from horizontal... so if 90 degrees is perfectly horizontal, put them at 95-100degs. When you are riding at 21 mph the nose of the boat is up in the air some anyhow, 11pmh for surfing its bigtime, and you want the sound going straight back horizontal...that will keep the blast area even a little higher above the heads of those riding inside the boat..

3. the rear bench is the loudest place. if you plan on going loud, have the folks further up front in the cabin.

[shawndoggy]

Hehe, gotcha. Didn't want to give those folks with the new Exiles or Wetsounds an inferiority complex, huh.

As I recall he doesn't use any in boat speakers at all in that setup. The NVS actually sound pretty good in the boat. I can see where they would be great on the Columbia. But they would blow away everyone on Sammamish!

Faded to the tower, 4 rev10s with 1600w on them are crazy crazy loud in the boat and they sound pretty good. Not as good as high end direct radiating speakers, but pretty good (and much better than other hlcds I've heard... but I've not heard the XM9s and this isn't intended to be a brand war). Surfing, I too have asked to turn it down.

Wakeboarding ... it's not that the speakers don't project that far, they totally do. It's that there are other environmental factors interfering with the rider's ability to hear, which means that you have to be loud enough to overcome all of those things. It's like trying to have a rock concert next to niagra falls in a wind storm. The ambient noise is a lot to overcome.

How do the HLCD's sound while you're listening, to all the speakers (cabin and towers) just floating between sessions. They are not over powering on the cabin speakers or sound harsh.

This is subjective and very speaker dependent. Newer offerings are far better than the last gen stuff. My own personal review of the Rev10s would be that they sound "good" and "not harsh" in the boat. But at $1200 a pair retail... you can definitely do better (probably for less money on speakers and amps) if the primary goal is good sound in and around the boat while floating or surfing.

What is your guys honest opinion on the HLCD (horn loaded compression driver's), if given the chance to do it all over again would you have spent the money on the HLCD speakers or gone with a traditional tower speaker (radiating).

Knowing what *I* know now about how the system performs with the handle in my hand, I would definitely GIVE UP THE QUEST FOR GOOD SOUND AT 80' and go with direct radiating speakers. For sure. The Revs 10s do what they do very well... I've just learned that I don't really like what they do. That said had someone told me that before I spent the money I wouldn't have listened. Some lessons I need to learn on my own.

Edited June 19, 2012 by shawndoggy

[JoeMama]

I guess I am lucky that I boat in delta in CA cause I could care less about who is blasting their music. People have $14k systems and I like the music and if I don't like it then it doesn't take too far of a distance to get away from it.

I suppose it probably would suck if it's in a small lake that's a mile long.....

[Bill_AirJunky]

I guess I am lucky that I boat in delta in CA cause I could care less about who is blasting their music. People have $14k systems and I like the music and if I don't like it then it doesn't take too far of a distance to get away from it.

I suppose it probably would suck if it's in a small lake that's a mile long.....

Yea, the lake I live by is only about 700 acres. Takes me about 20 minutes to ride all the way around it, about 2.5 miles across. I also have a paddleboard, which is definitely a different experience than anything else I've done out there..... can be very quiet, and obviously a lot slower so you notice things underwater or on the shore.

If there is one boat on the lake with their tunes cranked, I hear it pretty much anywhere on the water. Like you, I probably don't hate the music though. But I can imagine some old couple enjoying their home on the water & someone with their filthy, swearing, screaming tunes is out there for hours at a time, day after day. Then they call their Pinocle partner who is a local city councilman or sheriff or something...... I imagine thats how those complaints get started.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Bill_AirJunky

[Bradley Thornton]

I love my 4 XM9's sound great at 65-70 feet. We angle them up a little one of the biggest keys is amp can I say that again AMP. When I have the wife I cut the cabin speakers off and she is happy. I will say everyone in the neighborhood knows I am there. I do need a volume box so when I stop the volume will go down on it's on. The trick for me was angling the speakers up a little. I listen to my system at the house all the time when I do this I have to cut the tower off and the cabin up. Hey I have to get my money out of this system some how. For me it is a must. I would like to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Like people have said their are those few days when it is a must but they are few.

[Fman]

I run 1 Pair Rev10s and they are ridiculous loud 80ft back, but still are tolerable for the most part inside the boat....understand a 247 is long, so your head while sitting on that back bench seat is a good 8-9ft away. the sound comes out in a cone shaped blast....the shorter the boat, those inside the boat are closer the to speaker, therefore, more under the speaker and under the blast area.

Things you can do to mitigate ear bleeding while running real tower loud speakers:

1. ensure you have them as high up on the tower as possible. you wanna get that sound cannon above their heads.

2. slightly angle the speaker up from horizontal... so if 90 degrees is perfectly horizontal, put them at 95-100degs. When you are riding at 21 mph the nose of the boat is up in the air some anyhow, 11pmh for surfing its bigtime, and you want the sound going straight back horizontal...that will keep the blast area even a little higher above the heads of those riding inside the boat..

3. the rear bench is the loudest place. if you plan on going loud, have the folks further up front in the cabin.

You are talking a couple feet difference between the vlx and 247 lounge area. I'm thinking its loud either way sitting in the back seat area regardless of the boat. I started carrying ear plugs for people. The system cranking all day starts to wear on you. Starting to ride without music has been a nice old school change up!

My Rev 10's are fixed mounted, can you adjust the angle of them? I thought there was only one setting on the G3 tower.

[nyryan2001]

Yes, I use the G3 side mount tower bracket also, so we are pretty much stuck with what we have. tucks them up tight into the corners of the tower, but no adjustment whatsoever like you get with regular tower clamps.

[wdr]

I am pretty much of the same mind as everyone here in regards to how I listen to my music. I mostly surf and socialize so the in boat and surf zone experience is what I am looking for when I upgrade. I see that WS has the ICON 8 series out and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them. The write up seems to fit my needs to a "T" and the WS reputation makes it an easy choice. Now if I could only find 2 sets that fell off of a truck!

[Bradley Thornton]

You are talking a couple feet difference between the vlx and 247 lounge area. I'm thinking its loud either way sitting in the back seat area regardless of the boat. I started carrying ear plugs for people. The system cranking all day starts to wear on you. Starting to ride without music has been a nice old school change up! My Rev 10's are fixed mounted, can you adjust the angle of them? I thought there was only one setting on the G3 tower.

Im not a dealer or trying to be I'm just stating a fact the reason I went with the XM9's was I didn't have to pay extra for the swivel mounts and quick disconnect and for the illusion tower if you buy two pair of Rev 10's the bottom pair have to be fixed mount for me this was a deal breaker.