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MoonDawg

Plastic Skis - which one is best?

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MoonDawg

Some people said I was just thrifty... but honestly I have not skied on a ski I liked better than my 1970 O’Brien Woody. I tried a lot of those "plastic skis" over time but just kept going back. I tricked it out... drilled holes in the fin and added some wings after those were introduced. My stick just kept getting better. The blank cost me $78.00 back then so I guess I got my monies worth.

I pulled her off the shelf last weekend to prep her for her annual Spa Varnish treatment and found that the rubber on the boots has pretty much rotted after 35 years. It is a safety issue at this point because I ski it hard (40 MPH on a 50ft line). I am afraid that the rear toe will break while I am cutting hard and I will have another disaster on my hands.

I have been following some of the threads on new skis. I was almost convinced to try a CarbonWorx and then I found this message from [email protected]:

" Your friend will have a more difficult time converting to any HO product if he's used to the EP. The EP has round bevels and so he should stick to Goode, D3, KD or Carbonworx....."

The EP and Goode were the "Plastic Skis" I hated the most - so the Carbonworx probably sucks too! Where do I go from here?

If the converse of [email protected]'s comment is true I will have a difficult time converting to anything but an HO product. I ride the tail to control the speed and the plastic skis I have tried ride higher in the water and are harder to sink, so I can't turn or decelerate like I can on my woody.

If I stick with an HO product, which ski would be most like the woody? It is narrow up front and thin in the tail... The ski always needs to be on an edge. It has a death wobble when ridden flat...not forgiving at all.

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wienrdog

The Top-of-the line HOs are the Monza & System 8. The Monza is pretty much a course and glass ski. The system 8 has the same shape, but a different core. Pro skier Chris Rossi prefers the system8 over the monza because it's not as affected by fin settings & rougher water.

Seem like you'd like a system 8. I'd think that a Monza would be a little too finicky for any time other than right when the light turns green on HVL.

I have a Vengeance you can try if you want to see how they ski - it's a bit more forgiving than your current ski sounds. I currently have double high-wraps, but have an RTP at home I can put on it.

GK (on the Nicholls waterski forum) is local and skis on a 66" Monza. He has offered tries to people before.

You may also like a KD CR7 or Platinum. They are pretty stable, but track like a train and ski a little deeper.

Edited by weinrdog

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Brad B

40 mph @ 25 off

Kidder RedLine - a long one - like 72"

They are very forgiving like your comfy old woody.

Also consider some new hardware for the ole dawg just for old times sake.

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NorCaliBu
...I ski it hard (40 MPH on a 50ft line)....

40 MPH? Shocking.gif Are you serious? :unsure: If so, why? Dontknow.gif

50 ft rope? That would be 25 off. What did you do...tie a knot between the 22 off and 28 off loops? Crazy.gif

You might check with Wiley's...the CDX is a great tail-riders ski. Thumbup.gif

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FijiRob

Get one of these. They are old school and awesome.

http://www.mahaskis.com/index.html

You can actually call Bob and he will build something suited exactly for you based on an interview over the phone. The skis are so nice they can be considered art work.

Edited by FijiRob

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MoonDawg
...I ski it hard (40 MPH on a 50ft line)....

40 MPH? Shocking.gif Are you serious? :unsure: If so, why? Dontknow.gif

50 ft rope? That would be 25 off. What did you do...tie a knot between the 22 off and 28 off loops? Crazy.gif

You might check with Wiley's...the CDX is a great tail-riders ski. Thumbup.gif

When I learned to ski my boat cruised better at 40 than 30.

If you buy a 100 foot rope and cut it in half you get 2 - 50 foot ropes. Plus it is a lot harder to suck up a 50 foot rope than a 100 foot rope. I skied at the Colorado River, it was quite narrow, you could bang the sides on a longer rope.

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MoonDawg
Get one of these. They are old school and awesome.

http://www.mahaskis.com/index.html

You can actually call Bob and he will build something suited exactly for you based on an interview over the phone. The skis are so nice they can be considered art work.

Right On! I still have a thing for Suzanne Sommers since she posed topless for Maherajah Water Skis. In the 70s that was the ski to have. It was $300 back then hate to think what it would be now.

Edited by MoonDawg

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HOskier313

MoodDawg, I hate to admit it, but the site of you taking a 100 ft rope and cutting it up, attaching a handle and skiing it is cracking me up! Where in the heck are you getting a 100 ft rope (because to my knowledge, ski ropes come in 75 ft. lenghts). Let's fast forward to 2006.

If you enjoy skiing "25-off" 40 mph (which is funny in itself), how about try 36 mph, 28 off an actual SKI ROPE! You will probably find a similar speed.

As for the skis; buying a new ski is going to ski MUCH faster than an old woody. I think others have given good advice on brands and models to look at. HO does have a reputation for being a tail riding ski though. The CDX or Vengence should fit what you're looking for.

My advice, take the old rotting bindings off your woody, find 4-5 shot glasses, and glue those suckers to your ski. You should get about the same amount of enjoyment out of that ski.

As a small hi-jack, I used to work down at Tradewinds marine when I was in high school. We had several customers down on Hidden Valley.

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88Skier

I used to ski on those O'Brien woodys. They were really nice and were a work of art. Way ahead of their time. By the time I had scraped up enough $ to buy one, they had come out with the FG Mach 1 which I skied on for years and still have. Now I wish it was a woody as those are such classics.

Whatever you end up with, you will have to change your style if it's a ski from the 21st century.

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RoverOn

If you have big feet, I have a 2003 KD7000 with double hig-wraps that I would be willing to part with at a bargin...I have used it twice.

Can get more detials on the boots, etc. if you are interested...also have a mac-daddy bag for it.

Dave

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MoonDawg
MoodDawg, I hate to admit it, but the site of you taking a 100 ft rope and cutting it up, attaching a handle and skiing it is cracking me up! Where in the heck are you getting a 100 ft rope (because to my knowledge, ski ropes come in 75 ft. lenghts). Let's fast forward to 2006.....

Before the second gas crunch in 86, when Big Block Jet Boats were still King, it was common to use a 100ft line because the jet wake surfaced at around 70 feet. You had a choice to go longer 100ft or shorter to 50ft. There were some specialized ski ropes but most ropes were just 3/8" polypropylene in 50, 75, or 100 ft lengths. It saved a few dollars to buy a 100 footer and cut it in half..You had a built in spare.

As for the skis; buying a new ski is going to ski MUCH faster than an old woody. I think others have given good advice on brands and models to look at. HO does have a reputation for being a tail riding ski though. The CDX or Vengence should fit what you're looking for.

I have been reading some old posts about the CDX. That sounds like something I might be interested in trying out. I need to find someone with a 68 inch.

My advice, take the old rotting bindings off your woody, find 4-5 shot glasses, and glue those suckers to your ski. You should get about the same amount of enjoyment out of that ski.

I could not do that...I think I will coat her up with Spar Varnish one more time and put her on the wall at the lake house. A woody is a piece of art after all Biggrin.gif

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MoonDawg
The Top-of-the line HOs are the Monza & System 8. The Monza is pretty much a course and glass ski. The system 8 has the same shape, but a different core. Pro skier Chris Rossi prefers the system8 over the monza because it's not as affected by fin settings & rougher water.

Seem like you'd like a system 8. I'd think that a Monza would be a little too finicky for any time other than right when the light turns green on HVL.

I seen the System 8 at Hern Marine a couple of years ago when we were shopping for my wife's ski. We had to replace her EP after 20 years when the deck surface delaminated from the [email protected] plastic skis... She purchased an HO Truth... She loves that ski except for the graphics... I always kid her about getting a Tattoo like the graphics on her ski. The sales person paid her the ultimate complement/insult... "EP yeah I have heard of them...My Grandma had one of those skis" :lol:

The system 8 looks pretty nice...just plane carbon...so 21st century. Biggrin.gif

Edited by MoonDawg

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wienrdog

The System8 was new last year. The only place around here that I've seen the System8 is No Wake. Most of the other dealers around here don't carry the high end skis and bindings.

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MoonDawg
The System8 was new last year. The only place around here that I've seen the System8 is No Wake. Most of the other dealers around here don't carry the high end skis and bindings.

I think it was May 04 but could have been 05 when we bought my wifes ski... the last couple of years just seemed to have run together. You are right about there being a shortage of high end equipment. No Wake was pretty thin on stock at the time and Hern had 2 skis, a blank System 8 and a longer Truth with Double Animals. They were able to order the Truth in her size and get it the second day. That saved our vacation.

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wienrdog

Good for them. Hern seems to have one of the better marine supply shops around.

The offer to ride my 69" vengeance still stands. You can pick it up on the way to the lake once it warms up. It's a 1/2 wider version of the CDX for those of use who need a little extra lift. If you're looking for a '68, it may be a little big.

I'd really like to try the new Nitro. It's the Monza based version of the Vengeance.

You would probably like the KD Platinum or Titanium CR7 too.

I haven't found a local dealer, but I believe Wiley's (www.wileyski.com) will let you try a ski for a small fee. They also have new CDXs (they commissioned a special run last year). They're supposed to be really good at matching a request to a ski. I haven't heard anybody bad-mouth them yet. Give them a call.

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I have been following some of the threads on new skis. I was almost convinced to try a CarbonWorx and then I found this message from [email protected]:

" Your friend will have a more difficult time converting to any HO product if he's used to the EP. The EP has round bevels and so he should stick to Goode, D3, KD or Carbonworx....."

The EP and Goode were the "Plastic Skis" I hated the most - so the Carbonworx probably sucks too! Where do I go from here?

If the converse of [email protected]'s comment is true I will have a difficult time converting to anything but an HO product. I ride the tail to control the speed and the plastic skis I have tried ride higher in the water and are harder to sink, so I can't turn or decelerate like I can on my woody.

WAIT a DAMN minute!

I started looking at this thread because the boards are boring my stiff lately, and I see my name being burned. If I recall correctly, Moondawg, you PM'd me looking for advice on some particular skis that you found for sale on the cheap somewhere for your friend. I'll proceed on that basis....

Any one coming from and HO product will have a learning curve to getting on a rounded bevel design and versa vice. The round bevel skis tend to set up a carving turn and drive though it. The HO's, remembering have a flat spot on the bevel, tend to travel in one direction until they loose enough speed and then snap a turn and go the other direction. It's not insurmountable to convert from one type to the other, it's just going to take a few sets. So, if you only get 30 sets in the course of a year and you spend 10 of those sets getting used to the new ski you bought, that 33% of your time learning, which may be enjoyable or may not. If you get a like type of ski and it takes you 5 sets to get used to it, that's only 16% of your time.

I still maintain that if your bud is used to the EP he will enjoy his time better on a rounded bevel ski like i posted before. If you don't like the characteristic of the "plastic" skis( please call them composite as plastic does not really fit) riding high in the water get a size smaller and move the boots back a hole or two so you

can more closely match the performance you are used to.

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MoonDawg
WAIT a DAMN minute!

I started looking at this thread because the boards are boring my stiff lately, and I see my name being burned. If I recall correctly, Moondawg, you PM'd me looking for advice on some particular skis that you found for sale on the cheap somewhere for your friend. I'll proceed on that basis....

Wasn't me that PMed you...did not think I burned your name...just trying to follow your advise..but glad you found this thread. It has been pretty boring around here lately.

If you don't like the characteristic of the "plastic" skis( please call them composite as plastic does not really fit)

All that composite material is held together by polyester resin...that is so plastic! :lol:

....The round bevel skis tend to set up a carving turn and drive though it. The HO's, remembering have a flat spot on the bevel, tend to travel in one direction until they loose enough speed and then snap a turn and go the other direction.

This is very interesting...I never knew why there was a bevel...my ski does react this way.

Edited by MoonDawg

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Wasn't me that PMed you...did not think I burned your name...just trying to follow your advise..but glad you found this thread. It has been pretty boring around here lately.

All that composite material is held together by polyester resin...that is so plastic! :lol:

You didn't? Someone did and that's exactly what I told them, so many ski conversations, so little memory.

You didn't burn my name, but I thought that would wake someone up and we could have a ski topic to talk about and get some fire going on the boards.

It just doesn't seem right to call something that cost nearly $1K for 3 lbs "plastic". That offends my sense of rationality.

Do you understand what I'm saying, the priciple of my statement? All BS aside, that part is important to me. It does take more effort to switch types and if you have a compelling reason to switch it's worth the effort. I think that there are few skiers who can effectively ride the Monza's and S8's. Those skis were designed for for short line skiers who have a whole set of needs that most the rest of us don't have. Us mortals would do better to ski on a stick that will work with us and forgive us our errors.

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HRemington

Greg, just to clear the air and your memory, I was the one getting your advice before Christmas, and the quote moondawg used was your answer to me. I also PMed you a lot, took all your advice to heart, and would never burn your name, so don't be thinking ill of your faulty memory of me. What we had was really special while it lasted. Crazy.gif

I got my friend the D3, and was going to get a CW someday for myself (remember the one on sk-it-again that got away?), that is until bluebu (how could you forget the 38 off Australian skier) pointed out that those plastic CWs are veritable death traps. Biggrin.gif

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edwin
The System8 was new last year. The only place around here that I've seen the System8 is No Wake. Most of the other dealers around here don't carry the high end skis and bindings.

No Wake rocks!!! I've been through there a couple times while traveling, couldn't have been more hospitable. Awesome ski related selection in the pro shop as well. You guys in Ohio have it all!

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VinRLX
:Doh: Six, sit back, have a beer, and watch the fun. And if you could put more of anything in your ski, wouldn't it be more wood?

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MoonDawg
It just doesn't seem right to call something that cost nearly $1K for 3 lbs "plastic". That offends my sense of rationality.

Well...since you put it that way, it is not like it is a piece of blow molded ABS weighing in at 25 lbs. So there can be some distinction I'll offer you "synthetic composite" instead of "Plastic". Maybe Wakegirl can change the name of the topic Biggrin.gif

Do you understand what I'm saying, the priciple of my statement? All BS aside, that part is important to me. It does take more effort to switch types and if you have a compelling reason to switch it's worth the effort. I think that there are few skiers who can effectively ride the Monza's and S8's. Those skis were designed for for short line skiers who have a whole set of needs that most the rest of us don't have. Us mortals would do better to ski on a stick that will work with us and forgive us our errors.

I think I understand what you mean but why waste your time learning on a lesser ski and continually spend money to trade up. Why not buy as much as you can and be all you can be. I still have a good 20 years of ripping left in my body. The HO Monza looks pretty good to me.

I bought what I considered the best ski available at the time and it has served me well. If you distribute the cost over 35 years and about 100 rides a year that ski cost me about 5 cents per ride. I'll concede that there were some high maintenance costs involved in spar vanrnish, sand paper, steel wool brushes and thinner. So maybe 88skiers Resin/Glass/Aluminum Mach 1 would have been a better investment. But today I still own a piece of Art. Biggrin.gif

Edited by MoonDawg

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antonio865309

well, i give you major props if you can ski the course at 40 mph. or are you just river skiing.

my dad has a monza and i have a D3 X5, id go with a phantom or Cdx if i was you because its true, they are tail riding skies, it was kind of interesting when i first tried a kd when i was on a CDX.

i know you guys dont really care what the skis are made out of but most of them now a days are carbon fiber wrapped around a foam core. but anyways, id definatley try a phantom if i was you.

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antonio865309

or a monza or system 8, the thing about the monza though is that it skis a lot worse in rough water. thats my dads prob. But when its smooth, he can get up to his personal best easily. ive heard that the sytem 8 rides good in rough water and is a good ski also.

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Greg, just to clear the air and your memory, I was the one getting your advice before Christmas, and the quote moondawg used was your answer to me. I also PMed you a lot, took all your advice to heart, and would never burn your name, so don't be thinking ill of your faulty memory of me. What we had was really special while it lasted. Crazy.gif

I got my friend the D3, and was going to get a CW someday for myself (remember the one on sk-it-again that got away?), that is until bluebu (how could you forget the 38 off Australian skier) pointed out that those plastic CWs are veritable death traps. Biggrin.gif

I knew I had the conversation with someone, thanks for reminding me who it was with. Should we get our own chat room?

I'm going to continue riding my death trap right through the black abyss(black being the color of 39). Interesting to me that mr. Bluebu supposedly 38 off hasn't posted sine his trolling.....

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