(5/12 update)...Please help! 325 Monsoon - Now it won't start.....

[dtm8119]

This is a follow up to the issues I was having in this thread:

http://www.themalibu...psiac-question/

To summarize...last week, was out on the lake skiing, boat was running fine. After our sets, we were idling back to the dock and the boat starting to run really rough, and whenever it would start running rough, the alarm beep would go off (water temp, oil pressure, batt. voltage all were fine).

Now fast forward to yesterday. I put a couple pints of seafoam in the tank, and also picked up a new TPS and IAC valve (but did not install right away). Double checked connections at the battery, plugs, distributor. Fired up the boat, was running fine, and took it for a 20 minute or so ride. During the ride, I did get the alarm beep a couple times, but it never did misfire when that happened. When I was just about back to home, I was clearing some weeds off the prop in reverse and the motor just died. When I tried to restart, it would just turn over and over but no fire.

After getting towed in back to the dock, installed the new TPS and IAC just so I could more or less check those two items off the list of being "the issue" but no luck. Did confirm that the motor does have spark.

I'm wondering if this could be a fuel pump issue? Are there any fuses/relays to check?

I don't THINK it's the kill switch, because from what I've read, if it's faulty, when you turn the key to on, it will only beep one time. I'm my case, it continues to beep with the key in the ON position. If I'm wrong with this, please let me know.

Anybody with some first hand experiences with this and have some suggestions? I'd hate to keep throwing parts at this thing, or even worse, have to tow it in to the dealer for them to look at it!

Edited May 12, 2012 by dtm8119

[RTS]

I don't THINK it's the kill switch, because from what I've read, if it's faulty, when you turn the key to on, it will only beep one time. I'm my case, it continues to beep with the key in the ON position. If I'm wrong with this, please let me know.

Never heard of this, but I could be wrong.

When you say 'misfires', do you mean the engine acts like to turned the key on and off? The reason I ask is that I had a similiar issue developing a few years back. The boat would 'hesitate' breifly and the guages would recycle, especially after hitting a wave of something.

It turned out to be that the connections in the cannon plug were 'loosening up', for lack of a better term. I disconnected the plug, and ever so slightly bent the pins on the male side, so that when I reconnected the plug, the male to female connections were soild.

The issue never returned.

[SmoothWaterMan]

Didn't read the original thread, but to answer your question about the kill switch, the gauges will only work if the kill switch is working. (No gauges with key on, then kill switch is not working).

If you are looking at intermittent run connections, it's good to check the ignition circuit breaker for a good connection. The screw through the bus bar can become loose. This will create a intermittent issue just like a bad kill switch.

Peter

[dtm8119]

Didn't read the original thread, but to answer your question about the kill switch, the gauges will only work if the kill switch is working. (No gauges with key on, then kill switch is not working).

If you are looking at intermittent run connections, it's good to check the ignition circuit breaker for a good connection. The screw through the bus bar can become loose. This will create a intermittent issue just like a bad kill switch.

Peter

Is the ignition circuit breaker located at the ECM? I'm also going to check the relays and fuses at the ECM, as described here:

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=d918726057d9c3fe&id=D918726057D9C3FE%211977

[footndale]

Double check all spark plug wires and coil. Make sure there isn't a wire or coil that is arching.

Check if you are getting spark at the coil. If yes, then check at the plugs. Depending on where you have it or not, then you can look at other areas.

[85 Barefoot]

have you put in any fresh gas?

[dtm8119]

I've checked spark at the spark plugs, and we are good there.

Gas is not fresh...it was topped off with premium non-ox at the end of last season. Yesterday before I ran it, I also added some seafoam for good measure.

It's just really odd...the boat was running perfect when I had it out last night, no issues when wide open. Then it just quit on me and wouldn't start up again.

[85 Barefoot]

Sounds fuel related to me. My gues sis that if you went to start it now it would start right up. Watch Talladega last Sunday? Lots of drivers with essentially vapor locking while engine was running. You're having symptoms during low volume fuel demands (idle) after engine is warm, so especially considering very old gas, I'm leaning that way (starting to vapor lock). Running rough could easily be explained by this along with wild RPM swings (ECM detects starvation, increasing idle, overcorrects, RPM flares, etc. Seafoam won't bring bad fuel back. If you've run it as much as you have, I'd suggest topping off with some fresh and see what happens and run blower constantly next time out. I'm not one who subscribes to the blower being able to move that much air but some people claim it helps. Also, next time out if it does it again, open engine cover, run at throttle some to move in cool fuel, leave box open and see if it continues. That will allow fuel lines to stay cooler.

[tvano]

there may be something worthwhile here: file:///C:/Users/TVanO/Documents/Vehicles/Boat/No%20Crank%20Troubleshooting.pdf

[dtm8119]

there may be something worthwhile here: file:///C:/Users/TVanO/Documents/Vehicles/Boat/No%20Crank%20Troubleshooting.pdf

Tvano - I was unable to open that....could you retry, or PM me the document?

[dtm8119]

Here's one other interesting thing we found last night. Back in between the fuel pump and ECM, there is this bare wire just hanging out.

I can't find any sort of spot that this may have been connected previously?

[tvano]

Tvano - I was unable to open that....could you retry, or PM me the document?

my bad. i dropped a link to my local hard drive! it's been that kind of a week. email sent.

[tvano]

that bare wire looks like a system ground that should be connected to the port side bolt that secures the ecm bracket.

[dtm8119]

that bare wire looks like a system ground that should be connected to the port side bolt that secures the ecm bracket.

The thing is, there's only like 3 inches of "play" in that wire. If someone has a picture of what theirs is hooked to, could they please post?

[85 Barefoot]

remove the faux-carbon fiber box and see what it may expose.

[pennery]

I sure hope your problem is that simple.

[dtm8119]

Ok a couple other things.....my dad was at the lake today and checked with a test light if the fuel pump was getting power. He said when the ignition was turned to "ON" the test light would come on for a second, then turn off. Normal?

Also, I plan to rent a fuel pressure gauge to check the pressure. Is there a certain pressure I should be looking for when turning it over, or with the key in ON position?

Thanks again for all the suggestions everyone...

[99response]

Fuel pump cycles for a few seconds at key on, normal. With the pump hooked it you should be able to hear it cycle pretty clearly.

I'd figure out where that monster ground cable goes before you bother with fuel pressure.

[dtm8119]

Can someone point me to where the 20A fuse for the fuel pump is? I confirmed that the fuel pump will prime, but hooking up the connection to a battery.

[dtm8119]

Ok, nevermind, found it!

Latest update, we checked the fuse, it's good. Also, switched the ignition relay and fuel pump relays to determine if the fuel pump relay was dead, and it's not. The fuel pump did not turn on when we tried swaping relays.

If the connection on the oil pressure switch is bad, could that cause the fuel pump to NOT prime? The connection looks very rusty. Going to try to clean it up and see if that does anything.

[dtm8119]

Ok, so I wanted to summarize my findings from today, to see if anybody had some other suggestions to try before i end up bringing the boat into the dealer. Still won't start.

To begin, we grounded that bare wire I mentioned above. We also disconnected the connection to the fuel pump, and hooked it to a battery to see if it would prime, and it DID, so we confirmed the fuel pump did not need replacing. So now....why isn't the fuel pump getting power from the boat when we click the key to ON...

We checked the 3 relays individually to see if they would "click" when the key was turned to on, each one did except for the fuel pump relay, so we tried both a new relay, and swapping relays with one of the known good ones...still no priming of the fuel pump when turning the key in either scenario.

Also checked the fuses for the 3 relays behind the ECM. All of them good. One thing to note though, they were all 15A fuses, and I was led to believe they should be 20A. Either way, they were all fine.

We checked the connector that plugs into the relay also, with a test light. With the key on, the test light would light up when contacting the top two leads, but not the bottom two. Is this normal?

Lastly, we confirmed that the safety lanyard is working properly.

Does anyone have any other suggestions to try? I'm really hoping it's not the ECM that needs replacing.......

Edited May 12, 2012 by dtm8119

[dlb]

I still think it is the gas.

Run it down to a half a tank or less and fill it with fresh fuel. My bet is your problem will vanish.....

[Sixball]

I think you will have a oil pressure sensor down by the oil filter, one wire running off the end. Pull the sensor off and flush it out or replace it. If its bad or hanging up it will shut the fuel pump down.

My ski partners SS LXI was acting much the same and I was pulling my hair out trying to find the problem.

[dtm8119]

I still think it is the gas.

Run it down to a half a tank or less and fill it with fresh fuel. My bet is your problem will vanish.....

The problem is, the injectors aren't even getting gas because the fuel pump isn't pumping at all. I'm reading 0 psi w/ my fuel pressure gauge.

[dtm8119]

I think you will have a oil pressure sensor down by the oil filter, one wire running off the end. Pull the sensor off and flush it out or replace it. If its bad or hanging up it will shut the fuel pump down.

My ski partners SS LXI was acting much the same and I was pulling my hair out trying to find the problem.

So you just replaced the sensor (or the switch?) and the problem went away?