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Indyxc

Stereo Upgrade Questions

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Indyxc

Hello all,

I'm doing a mild upgrade on my 04 Wakesetter VLX. Goal is actually being able to hear tunes while boarding, and good in cabin sound, nothing overwhelming on either end.

So far in the process of installing:

HU: Sony BT 2800

Tower Speakers: Wet Sound Pro 60s.

Tower Speaker Amp: Arc Audio KS 300.2

Remaining stock stuff:

4 Sony Cabin Speakers wired to the HU

I am planning on installing the amp or amps (fi I upgrade the cabin speakers) inside the battery comportment. Can I run the RCA cables and amp power signal through the stock place where the battery cables now run? I mean the hole in the floor by the drivers feet, then under the floor to the battery compartment. Is this possible or a HUGE pain? The other alternative I see is running the cable around the bow. What do most people do?

Can 2 amps share the same power on signal wire from the HU? OR do I need to run 2 wires?

Now for the cabin speakers, does anyone have any cheap recommendations? I was thinking Arc Audio KS 125.4 mini (or some sort of 4 channel amp), and some sort of budget cabin speakers. I don't want to spend more than 400 on this setup. I am OK with used.

Here is my project tally so far:

$325 WS Pro 60s (used).

$70 Sony BT 2800 (used)

$200 Arc Audio 300.2 (used).

Hoping to get a legit system under $1000. :)

Thank you!

Edited by Indyxc

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Bobby Light

Wait for the craigslist king to chime in...

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shawndoggy

Hello all,

I'm doing a mild upgrade on my 04 Wakesetter VLX. Goal is actually being able to hear tunes while boarding, and good in cabin sound, nothing overwhelming on either end.

So far in the process of installing:

HU: Sony BT 2800

Tower Speakers: Wet Sound Pro 60s.

Tower Speaker Amp: Arc Audio KS 300.2

Remaining stock stuff:

4 Sony Cabin Speakers wired to the HU

I am planning on installing the amp or amps (fi I upgrade the cabin speakers) inside the battery comportment. Can I run the RCA cables and amp power signal through the stock place where the battery cables now run? I mean the hole in the floor by the drivers feet, then under the floor to the battery compartment. Is this possible or a HUGE pain? The other alternative I see is running the cable around the bow. What do most people do?

Can 2 amps share the same power on signal wire from the HU? OR do I need to run 2 wires?

Now for the cabin speakers, does anyone have any cheap recommendations? I was thinking Arc Audio KS 125.4 mini, and some sort of budget cabin speakers. I don't want to spend more than 400 on this setup. I am OK with used.

Here is my project tally so far:

$325 WS Pro 60s (used).

$70 Sony BT 2800 (used)

$200 Arc Audio 300.2 (used).

Hoping to get a legit system under $1000. :)

Thank you!

That's a GREAT start.

Before you upgrade the cabin speakers you should put them on an amp. Avoid running the cabin speakers off of the headunit at all costs. I've not read great things about the arc mini. I think you'd be MUCH better served by going with a ks300.4 and keeping the stock speakers. It's an expensive amp, but worth it. I'd bet you could find one for $300 or less. That amp will be more than enough for the four stock speakers, and would very easily allow you to add a modest sub too (a sub is much more than "thump," it will really make the whole system come alive).

Too bad you aren't closer, because I've got the perfect subwoofer box in my storage unit that you could have for free (just add 12"). Probably not worth shipping.

You can certainly run the RCA interconnects and remote turn on lead through the same hole as the battery wire to the helm. You could (emphasis on COULD) have noise issues from running RCAs near the battery power to the helm like that, but I'd bet that you won't if you properly ground all of the stereo components (everything should be grounded to a common point... including running a new ground for the headunit).

two amps can certainly share the same remote turn on lead. It's not uncommon to run a "jumper" from one amp to the next.

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cstk421

Hello all,

I'm doing a mild upgrade on my 04 Wakesetter VLX. Goal is actually being able to hear tunes while boarding, and good in cabin sound, nothing overwhelming on either end.

So far in the process of installing:

HU: Sony BT 2800

Tower Speakers: Wet Sound Pro 60s.

Tower Speaker Amp: Arc Audio KS 300.2

Remaining stock stuff:

4 Sony Cabin Speakers wired to the HU

I am planning on installing the amp or amps (fi I upgrade the cabin speakers) inside the battery comportment. Can I run the RCA cables and amp power signal through the stock place where the battery cables now run? I mean the hole in the floor by the drivers feet, then under the floor to the battery compartment. Is this possible or a HUGE pain? The other alternative I see is running the cable around the bow. What do most people do?

Can 2 amps share the same power on signal wire from the HU? OR do I need to run 2 wires?

Now for the cabin speakers, does anyone have any cheap recommendations? I was thinking Arc Audio KS 125.4 mini (or some sort of 4 channel amp), and some sort of budget cabin speakers. I don't want to spend more than 400 on this setup. I am OK with used.

Here is my project tally so far:

$325 WS Pro 60s (used).

$70 Sony BT 2800 (used)

$200 Arc Audio 300.2 (used).

Hoping to get a legit system under $1000. :)

Thank you!

Kool setup your going with. It will definitely make difference but you need to definitely power the cabin on an amp if your already doing this work. I agree with the previous mentioned items regarding running the RCA's with the battery cables no problem. Yes 1 "turn on" wire is enough for both. You aren't far from me (Macomb County) and I think my Alpine is a 250.4 or 300.4 and i barely used it last season as I upgraded to bigger amps. Its almost brand new and would be a more cost efficient solution. PM me if your interested.

Thanks,

Claudio

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Indyxc

Thanks for the advice guys.

I like the advice on the amp for the stock cabin speakers. Il wire it up, and install the amp, keep the stock cabin speakers and upgrade those when the budget allows.

Any particular reason for the 300.4? I'd like to keep with the arc audio brand for commonaility sake, but what about some of the other arc audio amps, like the Xi series?

Thanks!

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shawndoggy

Thanks for the advice guys.

I like the advice on the amp for the stock cabin speakers. Il wire it up, and install the amp, keep the stock cabin speakers and upgrade those when the budget allows.

Any particular reason for the 300.4? I'd like to keep with the arc audio brand for commonaility sake, but what about some of the other arc audio amps, like the Xi series?

Thanks!

The 300.4 is a very close cousin to the wetsounds syn4. Bang for the buck it's hard to beat. And it'd look like your syn 2 if that's important to you.

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Indyxc

The 300.4 is a very close cousin to the wetsounds syn4. Bang for the buck it's hard to beat. And it'd look like your syn 2 if that's important to you.

Yeah, good point. I'll get a 300.4 I took your advice about a year and a half ago on a BT Sony headunit, and it was a hit all around last summer on the boat. Everyone was amazing. Lol. :clap:

The speakers in the boat, appear to be these (4x):

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-aTAZZFFMe3K/p_158XSV1640/Sony-XS-V1640H.html?tab=other_items#overview-tab

Should be pretty decent with 75 watts @ 4 ohms per speakers, vs 52 watts. total. Agree?

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shawndoggy

Yeah, good point. I'll get a 300.4 I took your advice about a year and a half ago on a BT Sony headunit, and it was a hit all around last summer on the boat. Everyone was amazing. Lol. :clap:

The speakers in the boat, appear to be these (4x):

http://www.crutchfie...ms#overview-tab

Should be pretty decent with 75 watts @ 4 ohms per speakers, vs 52 watts. total. Agree?

Nothing will get any speakers to their potential like power. These fugly kickers sounded pretty decent once I had 100w to each one:

P1030121.JPG

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Indyxc

Shawn,

Kinda funny, my boat came with those exact kicker speakers in chrome cans, as tower speakers. WIth 200 watts to them (100 each), they seemed ok, but definitely not for tower speakers. I'm going to donate them and the old 2 channel amp to our new to us pontoon boat which only has 2 speakers. Do you know if they are water proof? They seem to be just kicker car speakers? Like DSM 65s or something like that.

Anyhow, made some progress (slow since I'm working 6-7 days a week) Picked up a Arc 300.4 per the suggestion.

Wired the tower speakrs up, and rewired the 2 rear speakers with new 14 gauge speaker wire. Right now the rear speaker wires, and tower speakers are wired to the battery comparment. A couple questions:

1. For power, should I use a distribution box for the 2 amps? The battery and amps will be maybe 2-3 feet apart in the observer seat comparment. Do I need 2 distrubtion blocks? 1 for power, 1 for ground? So 2 inputs from battery, 4 outputs (2 for each amp).

2. Now for running the RCA cables, I meant running them from the observer comparment, then under the floor, and pop up right below the dash. Looks like I'll need some sort of wiring snake. Have people successfuly gotten the cables through there? Looks like I'll have the following cables running there: 2 rca cables to HU, 1 power on cable from HU to Amps, 1 speaker wire to driver sides dash speaker.

Thank you!

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cstk421

1. As for distribution it is not required you use a block. You should though make sure you have your line to each amp fused though. Yes you would need 1 ground and 1 12v to each amp. Also as you said only 1 turn-on wire from the HU to the amps and you can jump from 1 amp to the other for your turn-on.

2. RCA's can be run through the floor under the dash to the observer side with a fish tape. Easy to do no problem. You do have the option of running the rca's around the bow. Many have done this to avoid running the rca's along the same path as power as this can create interference. I did not and have not had an issue so its up to you.

I just got done with the majority of my install if your interested in checking it out and get an idea or two. PM me if you have questions and good luck !

Claudio

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Deephaven

The interference is a misnomer, if you have any then you have bad cables. Any reasonable shielded cable will not have an issue. With 110vac it's a different story, but with DC it isn't something you need to worry about. Classic misconception from car audio where there is also a power and a ground...good luck getting away from the ground in a metal car.

As for amps. Do you want an Arc just to match? They are cheaper alternatives. For instance, the Arc 4050xxk is the same amp as the Cerwin Vega EXl 400.4. Guess which you can buy for $100 or less? Both are an upgrade to the KS series. if you are searching for an amp and restricted to a budget there are a ton of options, I just thought I'd share one that is an "arc" even if it doesn't match.

Oh, the Clarion APX490M is the same as the KS 300.4...another option for you. The list goes on and on. Amplifier technology isn't exactly rocket science in the 12v world and selling the same board and such is rather cost effective. Bonus on the Clarion though as it is their Marine amp :)

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shawndoggy
Oh, the Clarion APX490M is the same as the KS 300.4...another option for you. The list goes on and on. Amplifier technology isn't exactly rocket science in the 12v world and selling the same board and such is rather cost effective. Bonus on the Clarion though as it is their Marine amp :)

aside from similar power specs how do you figure a class A/B amp is "the same as" the arc ks?

I remember reading that the Clarion DPX series shared similarities with the Arc amps, but never the APX series.

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nyryan2001

Nothing will get any speakers to their potential like power. These fugly kickers sounded pretty decent once I had 100w to each one:

P1030121.JPG

That dog looks like he is embarassed by the way those kickers look...

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shawndoggy

That dog looks like he is embarassed by the way those kickers look...

lol, not to mention the life vest.

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Deephaven

aside from similar power specs how do you figure a class A/B amp is "the same as" the arc ks?

I remember reading that the Clarion DPX series shared similarities with the Arc amps, but never the APX series.

Class H is an A/B with some tweaks. You could choose to label an H A/B if you like. My understanding was that these are the same. It's possible I am wrong, but the board layout and part pics I saw a while back surely would say differently. Considering the history of Arc & Zapco to provide their designs to other manufacturers and the pics I had no reason to doubt that it is true. I suppose this also depends on your definition of the same. Obviously there are a bunch of budget amps out there that share the same board and layout of better amps but cheapen the power supply and components. That is a bad thing. Cerwin Vega & Clarion didn't do that when they used Arc boards.

So, let me state this differently. You'd all be VERY shocked if you knew how few amp "designs" there are out there. Even the ones you hold in high esteem probably aren't unique and the brand that causes the esteem is probably more expensive. There are definitely unique amps, but they are usually for niche purposes and if that niche isn't what you need there are nice budget options.

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Indyxc

Deephaven-I've already got the amps, so I'm all set there. Interesting content though.

I did some quick looking today about running the 2 rca's, 1 speaker wire, and 1 power amp on cable. It looks like it's going to be nearly impossible to fish that through there. People have actually done that on the older wakesetter hull? I'll give it a go this weekend, but dam, it looks like a practice in frustration.

If I run the cables around the bow, am I risking some sort of power/interface/ distance loss?

Thanks!

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Deephaven

Power loss will be negligible as long as the wires are sized appropriately.

Sorry for the diversion, in your first post you referenced "another 4 chn" and then clarification was requested. I wanted to answer.

As for fishing the wires through, I can't help on the VLX but could easily do 5x that many on an LSV. I can actually fit my arm across for fishing as well though. Couldn't believe how easy it was. The only hard part was getting into position to see where it could go through. Dark and flashlights are your friends.

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Indyxc

Power loss will be negligible as long as the wires are sized appropriately.

Sorry for the diversion, in your first post you referenced "another 4 chn" and then clarification was requested. I wanted to answer.

As for fishing the wires through, I can't help on the VLX but could easily do 5x that many on an LSV. I can actually fit my arm across for fishing as well though. Couldn't believe how easy it was. The only hard part was getting into position to see where it could go through. Dark and flashlights are your friends.

I see. Yeah makes sense with the amps since there are so few true unique designs out there. Since my progres so slow, between when I started this thread, and now I ended up picking up a second amp per the advice here.

For the wires, it must be different than on the Lsv than the VLX. On the VLX thre is a tiny pvc looking pipe maybe 1.5 inches running the power wires from the passenger side to the drivers side. I'll give fishing the wires through a try, but it doesn't look easy. Anyone confirm they've done it on a older vlx, or 05-08 vride?

Since I'm going so slow, my budget seems to have increased. Anyone recomended some decent 6.5 inch cabin speaker replacements? I'll do some searching around, but wanted to see what you guys suggest.

Thanks!

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Indyxc

Just an update to this thread :)

Mounted my amps in the walk through instead of side of the hull. Turned out very well. Here is a pic:

http://imageshack.us...s/843/1amp.jpg/

So far I have the amps mounted (300.2 and 300.4), ran the wires for the tower speakers, rear speakers, front left speakers. Need to still run speaker wire to the front right, my RCA cables, and my amp power cable.

Now a couple questions:

1. I can't get my RCA cables under the floor. I need to run them around the front of the bow. If I run them along the rub-rail, I measured, and I need roughly 20 FT of RCA, which seems like A LOT. I plan to run the Sony 310 BTX which has 4v pre-outs. Is 20 ft of RCA cable ok?

2. On my Antennea input wire, there is the main antennea wire, and then there is this small very thing clear wire, it is not connected to anything. Should it be?

Thanks!

Edited by Indyxc

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nyryan2001

Indy, very clean install on the amps. What method did you use to bolt them in?

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Indyxc

Ryan- Thanks.

I basically drilled through the walk through, ran 2 inch bolts from the outside in, added 1/2 spacers, and then bolted up the amps. Here is the thread:

Here is a picture of the wire:

What the heck is this? (small clear one)

http://imageshack.us/f/515/photozo.jpg/

Thanks!

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Deephaven

20' is no problem even for a wimpy deck. The voltage drop will not be audible nor affect anything.

And what's an antenna for? :P

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Indyxc

Antenna gets the occasional use :) Which is why I'd like to know what that little wire connects to.

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Indyxc

Just wanted to update the group and says thanks to everyone that gave me advice.

Powered up the boat last week (put in the battery), and to my amazement the stereo worked right off the batt. The only small issue I had was since I ran only 2 RCA cables into my 4 channel arc audio I had to set it to bridge L+R channel to get sound out of all 4 speakers.

Other than that, it sounded great, no noise, or anything. For a complete stereo rewire from the bottom up, I was impressed it all actually just "worked".

I love the Pro 60s some much so far, I want to pull them off and get REV 10s :D

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