Leak in middle ballast tank line

[gonzogman]

Just found out when I turn on the "fill" pump for my middle ballast tank, there is a leak- lake water runs down the top of the middle ballast tank towards the back of the tank. I can see the water flooding towards me while looking down through the ballast pump compartment to the left of the driver's seat. I have a 2005 VLX with four ballast tanks. There is obviously a leak somewhere between the fill pump and where the line feeds the middle tank. I cannot see where the fill line goes into the tank. There doesn't seem to be much if any room between the floor and top of the tank but for the space of the pump hoses. The leak appears to be nearer the fill inlet of the middle tank. Anyone know how I can access the inlet for the fill pump of the middle tank? I either have a break in the hose, clamp or inlet fitting. Thanks, Gonzogman.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Yea, not an unusual problem. Been thru it on my Vride too. The hose goes from a pump in the center hatch to a valve inside the spotters seat (above the floor, probably attached to the center walk thru wall). You'll need to remove the hose from the pump, attach a piece of string to it, then pull it into the spotters seat (with the string). Then use the string to pull the new hose back in place from the spotters seat to the hatch.

I found some clear hose with red/black reinforcement inside it... should be available at Home Depot or most any inboard boat dealer. Seemed like it would be sturdier than the black ribbed hose that is in there now. And it's been a couple years since I had the problem so hopefully it's doin OK.

[Lance B. Johnson]

something to add to Bill's comment:

Make sure they didn't cross the drain and fill lines under the floor. There is really only room for one hose thickness and they crossed the hoses causing them to split. This is the way mine was from the factory.

I re-routed mine.

Make double sure that the string doesn't come off!

[board brained]

I just had my dealer warranty my fill lines on the belly tank as the were "crushed"

silly question, instead of running a line from the fill pump up over the tank to the vent loop then back over the tank to the fill hook up on the tank why dont they just stick in a one way check valve between the pump and the fill connection on the tank? saves alot of headaches......

this is what i will do once the boat is out of warranty....I think.......

something to add to Bill's comment:

Make sure they didn't cross the drain and fill lines under the floor. There is really only room for one hose thickness and they crossed the hoses causing them to split. This is the way mine was from the factory.

I re-routed mine.

Make double sure that the string doesn't come off!

[TallRedRider]

I just had my dealer warranty my fill lines on the belly tank as the were "crushed"

silly question, instead of running a line from the fill pump up over the tank to the vent loop then back over the tank to the fill hook up on the tank why dont they just stick in a one way check valve between the pump and the fill connection on the tank? saves alot of headaches......

this is what i will do once the boat is out of warranty....I think.......

The siphoning problem is that the water goes from the lake through the pump and into the tank, just like it does with the pump on. It essentially 'autofills'. The tank does not empty on its own...and if it does, it cannot get below the level of the intake fitting, which is near the top of the tank.

Wouldn't a check valve only stop flow from leaving the tank back through the pump? And as I understand it, that is not the problem. But I think I need clarification. I explained the problem to a ballast guru, and he suggested a check valve as well, but I do not understand how that might fix it unless it essentially creates an air/water pocket that stops the siphon.

My only potential theory is this: the check valve would close after I fill the tank (water trying to come back through the bottom of the boat), and it would essentially create a tiny bit of 'head pressure' if you will, and break the siphoning of water from the lake into the tank?

Edited September 14, 2011 by TallRedRider

[gonzogman]

Yea, not an unusual problem. Been thru it on my Vride too. The hose goes from a pump in the center hatch to a valve inside the spotters seat (above the floor, probably attached to the center walk thru wall). You'll need to remove the hose from the pump, attach a piece of string to it, then pull it into the spotters seat (with the string). Then use the string to pull the new hose back in place from the spotters seat to the hatch.

I found some clear hose with red/black reinforcement inside it... should be available at Home Depot or most any inboard boat dealer. Seemed like it would be sturdier than the black ribbed hose that is in there now. And it's been a couple years since I had the problem so hopefully it's doin OK.

Makes sense to me. Thanks for the info and pictures. I'm sure I have a split hose also. How do you get to the spotter's seat? In looking at the hose, it doesn't appear I can reach anything more than my wrist length from the back of the middle tank towards the front. So little room and the hoses cross above the tank also. Thanks, Gregg.

[gonzogman]

Yea, not an unusual problem. Been thru it on my Vride too. The hose goes from a pump in the center hatch to a valve inside the spotters seat (above the floor, probably attached to the center walk thru wall). You'll need to remove the hose from the pump, attach a piece of string to it, then pull it into the spotters seat (with the string). Then use the string to pull the new hose back in place from the spotters seat to the hatch.

I found some clear hose with red/black reinforcement inside it... should be available at Home Depot or most any inboard boat dealer. Seemed like it would be sturdier than the black ribbed hose that is in there now. And it's been a couple years since I had the problem so hopefully it's doin OK.

Ok. Got it now. Takes me awhile to figure out what "spotter's seat" means. It means what it says. I will look for the fitting/valve there, in the campartment under that seat or just in front of it where the 12-volt batt and amps are located. Thanks again. Gregg.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Hehe, sorry Gregg. Hope you can figure out my lingo.

So the "valve" I'm referring to is this thing.

Malibu put that down near the floor, near the batteries, but over by the center walk thru wall. I think it's on all the boats after like 2006. I installed it on my 2005 when I replaced this hose. I just had a hose that came up & went back down. I don't even recall when this thing is supposed to do.... like prevent water from pressurizing or back flowing or something.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Bill_AirJunky

[TallRedRider]

Hehe, sorry Gregg. Hope you can figure out my lingo.

So the "valve" I'm referring to is this thing.

Malibu put that down near the floor, near the batteries, but over by the center walk thru wall. I think it's on all the boats after like 2006. I installed it on my 2005 when I replaced this hose. I just had a hose that came up & went back down. I don't even recall when this thing is supposed to do.... like prevent water from pressurizing or back flowing or something.

On my 2006 247, it is on the driver's side behind the subwoofer.

[board brained]

I just had my hoses warrantied........not sure why they do not just put in a one way check valve between the pump and the tank? instead of running these hoses over the tank between the floor where they get crushed, cracked etc....

I must be missing something......

[TallRedRider]

The siphoning problem is that the water goes from the lake through the pump and into the tank, just like it does with the pump on. It essentially 'autofills'.

Generally, we think of it being the reverse, since we are all very familiar with siphoning a gas tank, but this is siphoning the lake into the tank.

I just had my hoses warrantied........not sure why they do not just put in a one way check valve between the pump and the tank? instead of running these hoses over the tank between the floor where they get crushed, cracked etc....

I must be missing something......

Reread my post above. With a check valve, water could still siphon into the tank.

I am going to reroute mine over the top of the tank and I hope that will create enough resistance to stop the autofill siphon.

Read this despcription of what the antisiphon valve does: http://www.wakemakers.com/3-4-inch-vented-loop.html

Edited September 19, 2011 by TallRedRider

[board brained]

never thought about "auto filling" was only thinking about the draining so understand and agree with your logic......

Generally, we think of it being the reverse, since we are all very familiar with siphoning a gas tank, but this is siphoning the lake into the tank.

Reread my post above. With a check valve, water could still siphon into the tank.

I am going to reroute mine over the top of the tank and I hope that will create enough resistance to stop the autofill siphon.

Read this despcription of what the antisiphon valve does: http://www.wakemaker...ented-loop.html

[TallRedRider]

SInce we are on the subject of the antisiphon valve, I decided to put it to the test.

I have had a problem with my center ballast since the day I got the boat. It takes about 12+ minutes to fill. That is unacceptable. I finally got around to replacing the pump with a Tsunami 1200. I decided to bypass the siphon valve and just connect it straight to the intake that is on the tank in the compartment.

I checked the tank after we got on the water, and within about 5 minutes, the tank was 1/3rd full and the siphoning was going strong. THe pump was not even on. The good news was that the Tsunami filled the rest of up very quickly.

So when I got home, I decided to hook the antisiphon valve back up. I had just left the hoses in the compartment, and put the Tsunami straight to the tank. When hooking the Tsunami to the antisiphon valve, I noticed a fair amount of slack in the hose. I figured I would tighten it up a little just in case I had a kink in the hose causing my filling problem. I gently pulled on the hose until the antisiphon valve then just came into the compartment! I knew that the valve was not in the passenger compartment like some other boats, and I saw on another thread that it was behind the subwoofer on another 2006 247. I had the subwoofer out a few months ago, and never remembered seeing it, but I was not thinking ballast at that time either.

Now I think the antisiphon valve was in the compartment under the driver's seat the whole time, and was never properly installed in the first place. That is why I don't remember seeing it when I had the sub out.

I got a big trip to Lake Mead this weekend, and I don't have time to remove the woofer and run the hose all over again, so I just mounted it upright and ziptied it to the intake on the tank as high as I can get it in the center compartment. I think it won't work right because it needs to be higher above the water line, but will keep you posted. If it does work there, it eliminates about 14 feet of hose.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Strange.

Seems like I read somewhere that that valve is supposed to be above the water line... or above the top of the tank... for it to work. Being above the floor of the boat would be both.

Have fun on Mead, Larry!

[TallRedRider]

Strange.

Seems like I read somewhere that that valve is supposed to be above the water line... or above the top of the tank... for it to work. Being above the floor of the boat would be both.

Have fun on Mead, Larry!

The tip of the anti siphon is about 3/4 of an inch above the top of the tank where I have it now. But if you look in the rear lockers, they have them like 2 feet above the water line. Where it is now, might be close to below the outside the boat water line. Like I said, I am not optimistic that it will work, but I don't want to tear apart my sub, and then learn I don't have time to finish the job. I am somewhat upset that it was not screwed down like it was supposed to be. I can deal with full ballast, since that is what I will be running most of the time anyway. There is a 7 mile cruise to the beach I am camping at, but I can reach in there and shut it off if I am that worried about the extra gas consumption.

Edited September 22, 2011 by TallRedRider

[TallRedRider]

The tip of the anti siphon is about 3/4 of an inch above the top of the tank where I have it now. But if you look in the rear lockers, they have them like 2 feet above the water line. Where it is now, might be close to below the outside the boat water line. Like I said, I am not optimistic that it will work, but I don't want to tear apart my sub, and then learn I don't have time to finish the job. I am somewhat upset that it was not screwed down like it was supposed to be. I can deal with full ballast, since that is what I will be running most of the time anyway. There is a 7 mile cruise to the beach I am camping at, but I can reach in there and shut it off if I am that worried about the extra gas consumption.

Just got back from 2 days at Lake Mead. The antisiphon valve worked perfect in the center compartment!!! This eliminates about 14 feet of hose on my 247. I am sure that fill times will be much faster now. It looks a little ghetto zip tied to the fill connection, but if it fill faster and stops the siphoning, then I am OK with that being there where no one can see it. I could try and mount it somehow, but for now this will work.