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GTI2lo

VW makes TDI marine engines now in the North American Market!!

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GTI2lo

http://www.vw-marine.de/en/models/?tx_lien..._pi1[engine]=20

This all new power plant will enter the marine market without any immediate competitor, given its truly athletic construction and a dry weight (excl. transmission) of only 325 kgs. Compared with other marine diesel engines of similar output, the weight advantage will be far over 100 kgs per engine, while the running characteristics of TDI 225-6 will further contribute to put it into a class of its own:

The V-6 base engine with a capacity of 3 litres is one of latest designs in the engine portfolio of Volkswagen group, and otherwise found in luxury cars like Audi A 6, Audi A8 or the highly successful Volkswagen SUV “Touareg”. This origin explains the extreme refinement of the engine at any power setting, made possible by its piezo controlled 3rd generation common rail injection system. The TDI 225-6 will deliver its 225 hp at 4.200 rpm, and produce 450 newtonmetres of torque at only 2.000 rpm – ideal to accelerate even heavier powerboats onto the plane.

An additional advantage of the new engine will be its extremely compact dimensions – especially its length of only 812 millimetres sets it apart from other marine diesels which are, in this performance class, mainly inline engines. Boat builders installing Volkswagen Marine TDI 225-6 will gain a big opportunity to use more space for storage or accommodation. The engine will initially be offered in sterndrive configurations with Mercruiser Bravo 1 and Mercruiser Bravo III.

Engine type 6-cylinder-Turbo-Diesel

Fuel system common rail direct injection

Cylinders V 6

Displacement [cm³] 2.967

Stroke [mm] 91,4

Bore [mm] 83,0

Compression ratio 19,5:1

Performance (ISO 3046) [kW] 165

Performance [HP] 225

At 4.200 rpm

Specific power output [kW/l] 55,61

Appr. piston speed [m/s] 12,8

Max. torque [Nm] 450

At 2.000 rpm

Min. specific fuel consumption be [g/kW] 209

Weight [kg]** 325

Alternator 180 A

Electrical system 12 V

Oil change Once a year or after 200 hours of operation. (depending on which occurs first)

Cooling Thermostatically controlled double circuit cooling system with heat exchangers, collective exhaust pipe and water-cooled exhaust turbocharger, oil cooled charger, engine oil cooling, hydraulic oil cooling

* Distribution injection pump

** dry, without gearbox (Z-Drive: + 101 kg)

5dba16587c.jpg

eeab5833d6.gif

1215bb0e35.gif

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jetskipro550

maybe if you repost that in HP, inches, pounds, feet....you know ENGLISH :lol: Then I will know whats going on with that new engine :(

But seriously, I would NEVER EVER own anything made by VW cause it would just Blowup.gif

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Toby

oh you americans USA.gif

still want to be different than everyone else Crazy.gif

Tease2.gif;););)

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GTI2lo
maybe if you repost that in HP, inches, pounds, feet....you know ENGLISH :lol: Then I will know whats going on with that new engine :(

But seriously, I would NEVER EVER own anything made by VW cause it would just Blowup.gif

What you don't know how to convert measurements? Simple math you know!!

Also why you doubting VW so much, they are at the forefront for Diesel technology and are very well respected all over the world. In europe they are the number one trusted brand. I myself own a TDI Jetta and can't say enough about it, father has a V8 Touareg, brother has a Audi A3, we all love them...Maybe I am biased against VW.... Why are you so negative? Had you ever owned one or you just basing your opinion on heresay?

FYI- both Dodge and Ford have reliability issues as well, also not much can be said about resale values... ROFL.gif

I showed the people on the board a neat alternative to the typical V8 Gas Guzzling engines, these small displacement turbo charged TDI engines provide HUGE tourque number and rev to allow a heavily wieghted Wakeboarding boat to plane and achieve decent fuel economy. I am not saying it's a gift from the gods but mearly expressing something I found interesting.

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BenBu

i.ve heard about this engine some time ago and i,m really interested in a diesel for my wakesetter.

i know steyr marinediesel and volvo penta will be an option.

what i don,t understand is torque..it seems you don,t need a 340 hp engine to get out of the hole

quickly, a diesel engine will have more torque,........right? Stupid.gif

how much torque has a monsoon engine...anyway it is abacadabra for me..

propane prices is raising steady,time for red diesel(less consumption...huh right?? :blush:

i wonder if you could buy a boat without an engine from malibu.

Edited by BenBu

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GTI2lo

The main thing is the consumption is so much better on the diesel engines. I get about 900 km per 50-53 ltrs of spirited driving in my Jetta. A gas engine would only get 600km if you taking it easy.

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Pistol Pete

I love the thought of a diesel engine but what abuot cold weather start-up? They don't like to start in the cold. Has VW come up with any new fuel or air intake heating system? The only other problem I see is, most US lakes don't have diesel for sale at the fuel docks.

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GTI2lo

I don't have a block heater in my Jetta TDI and it starts without issues at -30 degrees C, that about -22 f

With new technology cold weather starting isn't an issue. Mind you getting heat out of the heater core is another issue because the motors are so effecient. When it's really cold out. below 0 degree fahrenheit it sometimes takes 20 mins before my car blows warm air. Kinda sucks but it's a trade off.

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BenBu

pete i think you are right about the american lakes.

a nice thing about the internet is that it is worldwide

There are thousands of skiboat & malibu owners in europe/world who pay a [email protected] of money for gas.

The netherlands where i come from is one of the most expensive.like $ 5.53 a gallon.

allot of us convert our engines to LPG. but lpg is rising about 2.27a gallon at the moment. The conversion itself about.3000 dollar.

diesel is about 4 dollar a gallon but if it burns 30% less than gas it might be interesting.

For me a skiclub owner it would be possible to run on RED diesel (%tax free). i use this fuel as a business

Red diesel is about 507 dollar a ton/1000 liters or 264.17 gallons...now it is getting really interesting.

there are allot of schools/clubs etc in europe that run 1000 or more hours a season.

well you,ll get the point,..it saves allot on fuel cost.

most skiclubs owners have a club as a hobby beside their normal jobs,..less cost would make a the price of a run/set cheaper for the customer.

diesel might be the future for clubs /schools and really fanatic private classic waterskiers/barefoot or wakeboarders.

Edited by BenBu

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Gordo

I think diesel will be much more prevelant in the uS in the future. Europeans like diesel for energy efficient vehicles and the japs like gas/electric. If you use your vehicle in a city environment (lots of stop and go), buy a jap hybrid. If you are on the highway a lot buy a european diesel/hybrid. Crazy.gif

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Pistol Pete

Thanks for the good news on your VW starting in cold weather, GTI.

I'm a former Volvo mechanic from the East coast of the US=cold, and I remember we had problems with diesels starting in cold weather. But, that was 10 years ago. Glad to hear VW has defeated it.

BenBu, what is "red" diesel? Is the cetane rating lower or something? I've never heard of it. BTW, man, I feel bad for you guys running your boats with those kinds of fuel prices.

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GTI2lo

red diesel is kinda of like agricultural fuel. No taxes on it. Up north of Toronto there are alot of farms, cause farms need fuel for operation they get a break, but the fuel is coloured. This way when the ministry checks a regular truck they know your know scamming the system. Also you need a permit to buy the fuel..

This also applies to contruction vehicles...they get to use the coloured fuels aswell.

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wakesonthesnake

I also love my TDI Jetta, no problems starting below freezing. I however do not think it would be the best choice in a ski boat. The torque is great but hp is needed for that quick acceleration needed when skiing. Diesel engines are tough however everything needs to be maintained and worked on. They are much more expensive, and boats are bad enough as it is. I am not sure how it is where you are but the off-road fuel here is less refined and would cause injector problems in the Jetta and probably in this marine TDI as well. At least we can enjoy 50 miles per gallon on the road.

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Ronnie
red diesel is kinda of like agricultural fuel. No taxes on it. Up north of Toronto there are alot of farms, cause farms need fuel for operation they get a break, but the fuel is coloured. This way when the ministry checks a regular truck they know your know scamming the system. Also you need a permit to buy the fuel..

This also applies to contruction vehicles...they get to use the coloured fuels aswell.

Red diesel is the same here, just means no tax has been paid on it and makes it easily identifiable. I've heard that it will smoke a little more too. The thing is if you can use this "Off Road" diesel in your boat why can't you use the "Off Road" (non taxed) gasoline in your boat as well. I always wonder why marinas sell "road taxed" fuel instead of non taxed. If they sold the non taxed fuel it would bring the price down to what you can buy on the streets (taxed). I can buy gas on the lake here but the cost at the marina is crazy high compared to the street gas. I would love to not have to haul 40 gallons of gas to my back yard in 5 gallon cans.

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RiverRunner

red diesel is kinda of like agricultural fuel. No taxes on it. Up north of Toronto there are alot of farms, cause farms need fuel for operation they get a break, but the fuel is coloured. This way when the ministry checks a regular truck they know your know scamming the system. Also you need a permit to buy the fuel..

This also applies to contruction vehicles...they get to use the coloured fuels aswell.

Red diesel is the same here, just means no tax has been paid on it and makes it easily identifiable. I've heard that it will smoke a little more too. The thing is if you can use this "Off Road" diesel in your boat why can't you use the "Off Road" (non taxed) gasoline in your boat as well. I always wonder why marinas sell "road taxed" fuel instead of non taxed. If they sold the non taxed fuel it would bring the price down to what you can buy on the streets (taxed). I can buy gas on the lake here but the cost at the marina is crazy high compared to the street gas. I would love to not have to haul 40 gallons of gas to my back yard in 5 gallon cans.

Ronnie, you can write the road tax off even the gas you buy on the lake we did it last year equals about a tank of gas at the end of the year

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BBeakley

I'd be concerned about fuel consumption even on a diesel. Diesels are great for low fuel consumption in vehicles because they gear them to operate at their most efficient RPM (~2000 RPM on the US trucks). Most boats only have one gear though so you'll be running it at high RPM with a heavy constant load when you're cruising (relative to the low rolling/wind resistance of a car) and under full throttle with heavier loads when pulling people out of the water. It would be like towing you camper during only city driving conditions until you got on the highway where every road was uphill and you have to run at 3500+ RPM. I'm just speculating though, it will be nice to see some real world usage numbers when it goes into production. It would also be interesting to see what transmission it gets used with. A 2 speed transmission would be perfect for a diesel in a boat application. You'd get all the benefits of the low RPM torque getting you up out of the water plus vastly improved fuel consumption running near optimum RPM when cruising.

FYI: 450 N-m is only 331 ft-lb of torque. Considering a lot of folks are buying the HH or 8.1L options for their new boats, I suspect this engine would be underpowered for most people's tastes.

It's definitely a step in the right direction though. It's also no surprise to see a European manufacturer be the first. They're years ahead of the US on diesel adoption. How cool would it be to open the hatch on your Malibu and see a big shiny Mercedez-Benz (excuse me, Daimhler-Chrysler) emblem under there? Although for wakeboarding a big hefty yellow CAT engine would excite me just as much!!

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Ronnie

red diesel is kinda of like agricultural fuel. No taxes on it. Up north of Toronto there are alot of farms, cause farms need fuel for operation they get a break, but the fuel is coloured. This way when the ministry checks a regular truck they know your know scamming the system. Also you need a permit to buy the fuel..

This also applies to contruction vehicles...they get to use the coloured fuels aswell.

Red diesel is the same here, just means no tax has been paid on it and makes it easily identifiable. I've heard that it will smoke a little more too. The thing is if you can use this "Off Road" diesel in your boat why can't you use the "Off Road" (non taxed) gasoline in your boat as well. I always wonder why marinas sell "road taxed" fuel instead of non taxed. If they sold the non taxed fuel it would bring the price down to what you can buy on the streets (taxed). I can buy gas on the lake here but the cost at the marina is crazy high compared to the street gas. I would love to not have to haul 40 gallons of gas to my back yard in 5 gallon cans.

Ronnie, you can write the road tax off even the gas you buy on the lake we did it last year equals about a tank of gas at the end of the year

You can but why do we need to? Why do they sell Road Taxed gas at the marinas in the first place? Or maybe they don't sell taxed gas there and just charge us that much more.

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wakesonthesnake

In Washington State some of the marinas do not add road tax at around .40 a gallon. However, if they don't charge road tax they have to charge you sales tax at .08 to .09 a gallon. They then charge the extra for themselves. There is a way to ask the state for your money back when filling at a station but you have to have receipts, date log and so forth. At .40 a gallon I will probably do it this year.

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Malibudude
maybe if you repost that in HP, inches, pounds, feet....you know ENGLISH :lol: Then I will know whats going on with that new engine :(

But seriously, I would NEVER EVER own anything made by VW cause it would just Blowup.gif

Or you could search out a website such as onlinecoversions Biggrin.gif to covert the measurements.

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mrothwell

maybe if you repost that in HP, inches, pounds, feet....you know ENGLISH :lol: Then I will know whats going on with that new engine :(

But seriously, I would NEVER EVER own anything made by VW cause it would just Blowup.gif

Or you could search out a website such as onlinecoversions Biggrin.gif to covert the measurements.

or an even easier way (for me at least because I have a google search bar on my firefox browser) just type in:

450 newton metres in foot pounds

into a google search - it will tell you the answer

I think it's neato

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BBeakley

Check out this site, it is the Mercruiser/Cummins page. This specific page is their 330hp inline 6 B engine, the same block that comes in the their trucks. The fuel consumption near the bottom is the interesting part. At 2000 RPM it only consumes 6.7 gal/hr but increase only 800 RPM and you more than double consumption to 17.4 gal/hr. And with the current gear reduction transmissions 2800 RPM won't be moving you along very fast. Maybe with a diesel you could run a 1:1 transmission since the pull at low RPM will be much better but with the limited rev range of today's diesels (Powerstroke, Duramax, Cummins) I'd be scared of compromise in part of the performance.

CumminsMercruiser

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GTI2lo

Ya if you could get agricultural gas it be sweet. The lake we boat at isn't too bad in terms of price of fuel. We were paying between $0.90-1.30 per ltr of 87 oct fuel.

This is cheap in comparision to lake simcoe at about $1.50/ltr and georgian bay/honey harbour at $1.70/per ltr.. I think lake muskoka/joseph/roseau was about $1.50/ per ltr aswell.

And you southern folks thought you had it expensive!! lol

I have a motor that be awesome!!

VW Touareg V10 twin turbo TDI motor!!! This motor is an animal!!!

Stock makes 313 hp with 550 ft pounds trq and chipped it makes about 380 hp and about 750 ft pounds trq!!

1042.jpg

vw-touareg-v10-4.JPG

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BenBu

the owner of this boat could tell us how it really performs etc.

if we only knew who it was. ;)

post-312-1136873583_thumb.jpg

post-312-1136873661_thumb.jpg

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edgeski1
maybe if you repost that in HP, inches, pounds, feet....you know ENGLISH :lol: Then I will know whats going on with that new engine :(

But seriously, I would NEVER EVER own anything made by VW cause it would just Blowup.gif

You've obviously never owned a VW. I've had a few. Absolutely love them. They do have issues with the new cars here and there. But the motors wil never EVER die. VW's motrs are the burliest things out there and can take an immense amount of beating and never so much as huccup

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itch

Yeah what edge said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice call back Zach, never mind I found the other set at Gregs place.

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