03 SUNSCAPE 23 LSV OR 04 WAKESETTER 23 LSV?

[kkosh]

Hi everyone. New to the forum and about to purchase one of these boats. Just sold my Supra and am ready for a Malibu! The 03 Sunscape has only 75 hours on it but the outside has some fade in the blue gelcoat. I think that can be restored to the gloss shine correct? Other than that it is great. Interior perfect. No options though (wedge, ballast, cruise, tower). It has been stored outside for probably 5 years. Hasn't been run since 07 but the owner will let me put it in the water and take it out if I am serious. Not sure if I should be worried about that? The wakesetter has 170 hours and is loaded with every option. Several light scratches in the red gelcoat that hopefully will rub out and the interior is great. I do mostly wakeboarding but we do pull some skiers also. I can get the 03 for $26k and the 04 for about $34k. Both seem like a very good deal. Any help/opinons would be great!

[JTech]

Who are and what age/ages are in your normal crew? Mine run from 8-40 so all the creature comforts/options (wedge, cruise, ballast, etc.) are very helpful and make life easier. Both have very low hours for 6-7 year old boats so that IMO is not a factor. I would water test them both and see which runs better and what you can live with or without for the extra $$$.

[Slurpee]

Howdy,

I had the same questions 7 years ago when I had a choice between an '01 Sunscape and a '02 Wakesetter VLX. Slightly different than your usage I pulled slalom skiers all the time and we were only just beginning to get into wakeboarding as an experiment.

I'll skip right to my opinion and leave all the info below for you to read at leisure. Buy the Wakesetter, not the Sunscape. The Sunscape is $10k cheaper yes, but you'll easily eat into most or all of that savings once you add the things you'll need to do you primary sport of wakeboarding (wedge, ballast, perfect pass, tower, not to mention the stereo!!!). The Wakesetter already has all of that installed at the factory. Adding aftermarket ballast is now much easier as there are kits to let you get it done off the shelf. Even professional installs are easier as all the plumbing and wiring is mostly there already for you to tap into. As for skiing, if you mean tandem skis then there's nothing at all special about the sunscape's flat wake. The wakesetter has a bit more bump, but to tandem skis it's hardly a big deal. If you mean slalom skiers, then neither boat is going to be pulling a course once you upgrade the sunscape with all the weight of a tower, ballast system, speaker system. Since you're not pulling the course, then the rare slalom skier will probably be perfectly happy dealing with a little more bump to get their set in. I say this because at 32-34mph the wakesetter has a wake flatter than the old Glastron family boats we had that we slalom'd behind growing up.

So, to answer your questions. Yes, the gel coat can be cut and polished back to like new shine. Look for actual cracking and severe oxidation (looks like scaling). That can't be as easily fixed. Having not been run in 4 years there could be several minor issues depending on if it was prepped for that long of a storage out of water first. Will the seller let you take it by a dealer's maintenance department to evaluate it? If so, then do it. It's the best $100 or so you'll ever spend. More than likely if it all checks out as only mildly messed up, then you'll need a full service which in my area costs around $500-$600. Basically changing fluids, filters, impellar, some gaskets, lubricating cables, servicing the drive axle, etc.

That diamond hull on the Sunscape will slalom pretty nicely. Plan on spending $1100 on a Perfect Pass installation ASAP though. Cheaper than a divorce. Anyways, you can easily spend $10k getting that boat up to a WakesetterPLUS level monster. Here's my Born Again Fakesetter thread to see what I mean. I've had a lot of fun taking a completely unoptioned boat up to exactly what I want, but there are a LOT of hours and trial and error $$$ in it. I doubt I'll do this again. Back then though I had way more time than money.

So.... For wakeboarding with a Wedge and a ballast bag on the bow cushions it throws a decent beginning/moderate wakeboard wake. Good shape and clean. You have to have that bow bag because the Diamond Hull will porpoise (bow bouncing up and down) with the wedge down at most wakeboarding speeds (and various other combinations of weight and speed). If you want to get serious you'll need a ballast bag in the ski locker, a lot of weight in front (I use the wishbone shaped ballast bag for under the seats on TOP of the seats and bursting full), Wedge down, and ballast bags in the rear lockers half full if there's just a driver and passenger. At 60-65' off and 22mph or so the wake is really nice and clean with a great ramp, but it is of course kind of narrow if you're used to 70-80' line lengths. It's a bit washed out back there at 75' until you kick the speed up another 2-3mph. I personally love riding behind my boat because the wave will throw me way up in the air to compensate for being a little narrower than average. Oh, and I have run without a wedge and the V-Drive locker bags completely full, and several people sitting on the rear bench seat. The wake does get cleaner at longer line lengths. The shape is not as satisfying to me even though it's cleaner. I suppose a better boarder would get what they needed out of it, but we rarely do that now since the regular crew has the same opinion of it.

So.... For surfing I'm very very happy with my boat. I'll stick some pictures in that thread link above later today. You'll need the wedge, perfect pass, a 400lb bag in the rear locker, a 400lb bag underneath the side seats, a 400lb bag on top of the side seats, a ski locker bag, and 2-3 adults or that giant wishbone shaped bag in the bow and all on one side. At 11-11.5 mph the wave is moderately high and plenty long. On the starboard side because of the prop I think it's even better. Diamond Hulls definitely surf fine. You can plumb in a ballast system if you want, but plan on easily a $1000 to $2000 (including the bags) depending on which pumps you buy. You also need to be prepared to drill a lot of holes in your boat and again spending a lot of weekend hours on it. It's not a project for the faint of heart. It'd be much easier to buy it from the factory that way. Here's my ballast installation thread.

I hope that's helpful. Unless you or your wife or both are regular slalom skiers and must have some quality flat water behind the boat just get the Wakesetter. You'll be way happier. I wish I had bought the Wakesetter now looking back on it 7 years.

Cheers,

Bryan Smith

[Levi900RR]

"plus1: on the Wakesetter. Having ballast and a tower is a must for wakeboarding. What kind of tower does it have? When I'm shopping for boats if it doesnt have a Star One tower on it I usually factor in buying a new one...

[REW]

Howdy,

I had the same questions 7 years ago when I had a choice between an '01 Sunscape and a '02 Wakesetter VLX. Slightly different than your usage I pulled slalom skiers all the time and we were only just beginning to get into wakeboarding as an experiment.

I'll skip right to my opinion and leave all the info below for you to read at leisure. Buy the Wakesetter, not the Sunscape. The Sunscape is $10k cheaper yes, but you'll easily eat into most or all of that savings once you add the things you'll need to do you primary sport of wakeboarding (wedge, ballast, perfect pass, tower, not to mention the stereo!!!). The Wakesetter already has all of that installed at the factory. Adding aftermarket ballast is now much easier as there are kits to let you get it done off the shelf. Even professional installs are easier as all the plumbing and wiring is mostly there already for you to tap into. As for skiing, if you mean tandem skis then there's nothing at all special about the sunscape's flat wake. The wakesetter has a bit more bump, but to tandem skis it's hardly a big deal. If you mean slalom skiers, then neither boat is going to be pulling a course once you upgrade the sunscape with all the weight of a tower, ballast system, speaker system. Since you're not pulling the course, then the rare slalom skier will probably be perfectly happy dealing with a little more bump to get their set in. I say this because at 32-34mph the wakesetter has a wake flatter than the old Glastron family boats we had that we slalom'd behind growing up.

So, to answer your questions. Yes, the gel coat can be cut and polished back to like new shine. Look for actual cracking and severe oxidation (looks like scaling). That can't be as easily fixed. Having not been run in 4 years there could be several minor issues depending on if it was prepped for that long of a storage out of water first. Will the seller let you take it by a dealer's maintenance department to evaluate it? If so, then do it. It's the best $100 or so you'll ever spend. More than likely if it all checks out as only mildly messed up, then you'll need a full service which in my area costs around $500-$600. Basically changing fluids, filters, impellar, some gaskets, lubricating cables, servicing the drive axle, etc.

That diamond hull on the Sunscape will slalom pretty nicely. Plan on spending $1100 on a Perfect Pass installation ASAP though. Cheaper than a divorce. Anyways, you can easily spend $10k getting that boat up to a WakesetterPLUS level monster. Here's my Born Again Fakesetter thread to see what I mean. I've had a lot of fun taking a completely unoptioned boat up to exactly what I want, but there are a LOT of hours and trial and error $$$ in it. I doubt I'll do this again. Back then though I had way more time than money.

So.... For wakeboarding with a Wedge and a ballast bag on the bow cushions it throws a decent beginning/moderate wakeboard wake. Good shape and clean. You have to have that bow bag because the Diamond Hull will porpoise (bow bouncing up and down) with the wedge down at most wakeboarding speeds (and various other combinations of weight and speed). If you want to get serious you'll need a ballast bag in the ski locker, a lot of weight in front (I use the wishbone shaped ballast bag for under the seats on TOP of the seats and bursting full), Wedge down, and ballast bags in the rear lockers half full if there's just a driver and passenger. At 60-65' off and 22mph or so the wake is really nice and clean with a great ramp, but it is of course kind of narrow if you're used to 70-80' line lengths. It's a bit washed out back there at 75' until you kick the speed up another 2-3mph. I personally love riding behind my boat because the wave will throw me way up in the air to compensate for being a little narrower than average. Oh, and I have run without a wedge and the V-Drive locker bags completely full, and several people sitting on the rear bench seat. The wake does get cleaner at longer line lengths. The shape is not as satisfying to me even though it's cleaner. I suppose a better boarder would get what they needed out of it, but we rarely do that now since the regular crew has the same opinion of it.

So.... For surfing I'm very very happy with my boat. I'll stick some pictures in that thread link above later today. You'll need the wedge, perfect pass, a 400lb bag in the rear locker, a 400lb bag underneath the side seats, a 400lb bag on top of the side seats, a ski locker bag, and 2-3 adults or that giant wishbone shaped bag in the bow and all on one side. At 11-11.5 mph the wave is moderately high and plenty long. On the starboard side because of the prop I think it's even better. Diamond Hulls definitely surf fine. You can plumb in a ballast system if you want, but plan on easily a $1000 to $2000 (including the bags) depending on which pumps you buy. You also need to be prepared to drill a lot of holes in your boat and again spending a lot of weekend hours on it. It's not a project for the faint of heart. It'd be much easier to buy it from the factory that way. Here's my ballast installation thread.

I hope that's helpful. Unless you or your wife or both are regular slalom skiers and must have some quality flat water behind the boat just get the Wakesetter. You'll be way happier. I wish I had bought the Wakesetter now looking back on it 7 years.

Cheers,

Bryan Smith

Best answer I have ever read. Opinion plus facts to back it up.

Oh and I agree Wakesetter all the way.

[jaciche]

If your big on wakeboarding go with the wakesetter. I have an 04 wakesetter vlx w/ ballast and a tower and they are great. We slalom and barefoot the most with it and the wake could be better but it has a very nice ski wake for a v drive. The wake for wakeboarding is very nice too. Ours has 3 tanks for 900 lbs and it throws me up pretty well. Ours was a repo boat so we got it in great condition w/ 130 hours for 28k so that 34k price is a little iffy but if you say it is loaded then it may be an ok price. Just my 2 cents.

[kkosh]

Thanks everyone for the great info! I do wakeboard but I currently don't jump both wakes. I am 40 years old so jumping really high isn't going to happen! I have two young girs (3 and 6) so I don't think they would be doing much either. The only thing I would use the ballast tanks for is wake surfing which I have done before. I guess I am stuck now. Is $26k a good price for the Sunscape and is $33k good for the Wakesetter. Both have extremly low hours and the interiors are mint. Just a detail job on both should have them looking brand new. I couldn't find anything good in the price range of the Sunscape, especially with low hours.

[Hammertime]

Thanks everyone for the great info! I do wakeboard but I currently don't jump both wakes. I am 40 years old so jumping really high isn't going to happen! I have two young girs (3 and 6) so I don't think they would be doing much either. The only thing I would use the ballast tanks for is wake surfing which I have done before. I guess I am stuck now. Is $26k a good price for the Sunscape and is $33k good for the Wakesetter. Both have extremly low hours and the interiors are mint. Just a detail job on both should have them looking brand new. I couldn't find anything good in the price range of the Sunscape, especially with low hours.

Yep, $26 could be a steal, depends on the condition of the boat and what else you'd need to spend on it to get what you want. We just bought our first Malibu back in March, '03 23 LSV with 148 hours on it. Since then, we've added a T3 tower, OTT bimini and a couple of racks from StarOne, etc, etc..

I took ours to a local Malibu dealer and had them go thru the entire boat. They can hook up their computer to the boat and download just about everything from the boat’s computer; hours, how many hours at what RPM range, etc. They also did a compression test and checked out all electrical components, etc. and it was worth it to ensure I wasn’t getting a lemon.

Good luck, keep us posted and don’t forget the pics.

[kkosh]

Well, my decision might just got a little easier. Found out my shorestation is rated at 4,000 pounds. The wakesetter is 3900 pounds with no fuel. Just talked to shorestation and the guy even "off the record" said he wouldn't recommend it. The sunscape is 3400 pounds. Assuming it drives out well and everything works, it looks like that will have to be the boat. Seems like a good deal anyway.

[BG2085]

i bought a 2000 23lsv 2 months ago with 115 hours on it and we love it. boat was mint. going to put a star one on it and start loading it down. its a great multi-purpose boat. you will love it. just go and have fun

[Malibudude]

Much has already been covered but I'll add in '04 was the first year for the gorilla fins.

[Mrsamman]

Well, my decision might just got a little easier. Found out my shorestation is rated at 4,000 pounds. The wakesetter is 3900 pounds with no fuel. Just talked to shorestation and the guy even "off the record" said he wouldn't recommend it. The sunscape is 3400 pounds. Assuming it drives out well and everything works, it looks like that will have to be the boat. Seems like a good deal anyway.

Won't the sunscape weight just as much as the wakesetter after you put a tower and accessories on it?

I would go wakesetter..

Scott

Edited August 8, 2011 by Mrsamman

[kkosh]

The tower only weigh about 50 pounds. That is all I would probably ever add. Don't think I would spend the money on the ballast.

[BG2085]

The tower only weigh about 50 pounds. That is all I would probably ever add. Don't think I would spend the money on the ballast.

get one you will enjoy using. if you are like me, there is only so much enjoyment at my skill level and my kids certainly dont care. if you sleep better at night with an extra 8-10k in the bank...do it. the way the economy looks i would get the one that fits YOUR budget and use it and ENJOY it.

[Hammertime]

Won't the sunscape weight just as much as the wakesetter after you put a tower and accessories on it?

I would go wakesetter..

Scott

Depends on the size as kkosh wasn't specific.

Based on the previous posts, I'd say they are both 23 LSVs:

2003 Sunscape 23 LSV: 3400# Hull: V25 Diamond

2004 Wakesetter 23 LSV: 3900# Hull: V25 Wake

Edited August 8, 2011 by Hammertime

[dlb]

Check the hull type as you can have a V25 Diamond Hull on a Wakesetter.

[kkosh]

They both are 23's and it is the V25 on the Wakesetter. I guess I am worried about being about 300 pounds over on my shore station rating for the Wakesetter. Adding a tower to the Sunscape would only add about 50 pounds or so.

[Tory1340]

A couple of more cents to go with Jaciche...

I'm now 47 with a 2006 Wakesetter VLX. We're still adding to the ballast, mostly for me, not my girls (19 & 15). This wakeboarding thing is an addiction. Once you get wake-to-wake, you'll want more, higher, farther, etc. It's great to ride around behind the boat, but it get's stale once it "clicks". Sounds like your set on the Sunscape, but with some easy add-on ballast bags and creative placement of family and friends, you'll get started just fine.

What Supra did you get out of? I had an '88 Comp before the Bu. Still miss it - what a great ski boat.

[kkosh]

I got out of a 97 Supra Sunsport. Great boat. Kind of miss it already but that is probably because I don't have a boat to replace it with!

[BG2085]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wakeboard-Wakesurf-Fat-Ballast-Sac-2-140lbs-Combo-Pump-/130559466176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e65f35ac0#ht_4628wt_1396

2100 lbs of ballast for $ 270 ( w/pump). that should do it

[rugger]

I faced same decision last year after selling my direct drive malibu to get a bigger v-drive. Looked at 01-03 23 LSV sunscapes/wakesetters on the diamond hull, and the 04-05 23 lsv WS. The short answer is you can't go wrong with any of them -- purchase what makes sense for your budget. All are good boats, each with pros /cons. Drive them!

We ended opting for a low hour 03 Sunscape 23lsv and love it. It's super versatile, handles great in smooth and rough water, and surprises most with the slalom wake for a big boat. And when weighted properly, it produces a great wake for boarding and surfing. I also liked the idea of adding the exact tower I wanted (Titan 3 in my case, although I'd also love a G3 if not for the ridiculous price), and adding your own ballast gives you more weight over stock anyway that you can optionally use.

If my budget were a little more, I'd have loved a turnkey set up. But customizing with exactly what you want can end up being a benefit in the long run too. Good luck if you haven't already decided.

[kkosh]

Thanks for the info Rugger. Do you have pics of your set up. Would like to see that tower on the boat. Do they still sell that tower? I am interested in wakesurfing so was wondering also what kind of ballast and where you put it. Thanks!

[BG2085]

i just ordered a titan 1 from star one for my lsv. if you get one without a tower, get a star one. dont get an adjustable tower....i learned that the hard way. im going to weight my lsv with 2 x 400 sacs in the rear lockers, 300 in the locker and 100 under each front seat. ill let you know what it looks like....should be fine for my level.

[rugger]

Thanks for the info Rugger. Do you have pics of your set up. Would like to see that tower on the boat. Do they still sell that tower? I am interested in wakesurfing so was wondering also what kind of ballast and where you put it. Thanks!

Hey -- not saying by any means its the best setup -- but it's what I went with and really like it. Here's a link to a few pics of the sunscape with the titan 3 tower. There are others and before and after in the gallery too.

https://picasaweb.google.com/103899927922715396516/TheNewBu#5618239868364381842

I also agree with BG2085 as well -- get a Titan (star one) or something high quality (sampson?). Don't get a "universal" tower to save a few bucks, they move around too much. The titans are solid and stainless steel. I think the curvey series 3 Titan looks good on this era of boats, but the series 1 and 2 are great too. I'd also look into the new Sampson tower that looks like a G3. Don't know if it's available or just OEM for mastercraft but it looks great.

For surfing we're still playing, but usually run with the wedge, a 750 in the rear locker surf side, a 750 up front, and about 600 lbs on the surf side. Depends on number of people, and I'm still playing with weight. I haven't plumbed any of the ballast in yet -- just using the portable tsunami pump solution this summer. But we sure had a great wake last time out.

Hope that helps.

[kkosh]

Rugger your boat looks great! Do they still offer the series 3? That is the one I want. Plan is to pick up the 03 LSV on Saturday and bring it right to the Malibu dealer to have them go through it, detail it (bring back the blue shine) and put a tower on it.