Seized Bolt

[PUskier]

I need some help from the Crew. Over the weekend I attempted to replace the starter on my 454 Merc. Attempted is the key word. The starter is located on the starboard side, in the back, on the bottom. After removing several hoses that were in the way and all the wires, I finally had access to it. There are only two bolts holding it to the block, both on the bottom bolted up into the block. One bolt I got loose the other is seized to the block. To make matters worse, the head of the bolt is so close to the edge of the block (bad design) that you can’t get a socket on it. There isn’t enough clearance on the back side. I have tried liquid wrench, an open end wrench, a line wrench I ground down, a socket I cut in half, vice grips, and a hammer. No luck. The head of the bolt is starting to round off. I have very limited access. Any ideas? I was thinking of putting this back together, running the engine to get the block hot, and then trying again. Do you think that will help or make things worse?

[cbmalibu98]

You might try some PB Blaster it has worked for me in the past. If that does not work, heat may be your answer.

CB

[Levi900RR]

I need some help from the Crew. Over the weekend I attempted to replace the starter on my 454 Merc. Attempted is the key word. The starter is located on the starboard side, in the back, on the bottom. After removing several hoses that were in the way and all the wires, I finally had access to it. There are only two bolts holding it to the block, both on the bottom bolted up into the block. One bolt I got loose the other is seized to the block. To make matters worse, the head of the bolt is so close to the edge of the block (bad design) that you cant get a socket on it. There isnt enough clearance on the back side. I have tried liquid wrench, an open end wrench, a line wrench I ground down, a socket I cut in half, vice grips, and a hammer. No luck. The head of the bolt is starting to round off. I have very limited access. Any ideas? I was thinking of putting this back together, running the engine to get the block hot, and then trying again. Do you think that will help or make things worse?

Snap a pic of it so we can get a better idea...

I'm assuming you have tried a thin wall socket? Can you get an impact in there if a socket will go on? Could you maybe take a dremmel to the engine block to shave just enough off to get a socket on?

If not you may have to cut the head off and go after the actual bolt..

I'm thinking running the engine may just burn your hands, but its worth a shot.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Levi900RR

[WakingMeHappy]

PB blaster and muscle power.

[PUskier]

PB blaster and muscle power.

The problem with the PB blaster is that I can't get it to the threads. I can spray it in the joint between the block and the starter, but the threads are up in the block. The PB blaster will drip down the bolt, but not up into the threads.

Could you maybe take a dremmel to the engine block to shave just enough off to get a socket on?

This may be a good idea.

[Levi900RR]

The problem with the PB blaster is that I can't get it to the threads. I can spray it in the joint between the block and the starter, but the threads are up in the block. The PB blaster will drip down the bolt, but not up into the threads.

Could you maybe take a dremmel to the engine block to shave just enough off to get a socket on?

This may be a good idea.

Post up a pic and I might get even more creative...

[footnlongline]

If you cut the head of the bolt off do you have enough clearance to pull the starter forward to clear the bolt? If so once the starter is out of the way you could get Pb Baster on the threads and use a Visegrips on the bolt.

[WakingMeHappy]

The problem with the PB blaster is that I can't get it to the threads. I can spray it in the joint between the block and the starter, but the threads are up in the block. The PB blaster will drip down the bolt, but not up into the threads.

Could you maybe take a dremmel to the engine block to shave just enough off to get a socket on?

This may be a good idea.

You're kidding, right?

[Levi900RR]

You're kidding, right?

I wasn't, can't speak for PUSkier... 1/32" isn't gonna hurt anyone.

[cbmalibu98]

The PB Blaster has a wicking agent in it that may help. Or surley you could modify a tool to fit. I have turned the od of a socket down to fit into tight places. If you are going to use a dremel tool be careful if you bind if up it could grab and end up going deeper that you may want. Good :sw2

CB

[Shine]

If you cut the head of the bolt off do you have enough clearance to pull the starter forward to clear the bolt? If so once the starter is out of the way you could get Pb Baster on the threads and use a Visegrips on the bolt.

This was my thought if there was room to slide the starter off of the leftover bolt/threads. This sounds like a lot of busted knuckles...

[martinarcher]

Heating the engine block will certainly help. PB Blaster is also good stuff and will certainly help things. Keep hitting it with PB Blaster for a few days and let it soak. Give the penetrating oil time to soak in, run it and try it again.

[dalt1]

You might try some PB Blaster it has worked for me in the past. If that does not work, heat may be your answer.

CB

[dalt1]

If you can run the engine to get the block hot, how are you starting it and why change the starter?

[JasonK]

PB Blaster, a thin wall socket and a long extension for the impact wrench, AFTER you get it hot.

If you end up breaking the bolt, or bolt head off, just get a stud welded to the bolt and tighten the new starter with a nut. I've had to do it before.

[JBOB]

I'm not sure if you have the acess to try this , but it has worked in the past for me. Most starters have long bolts that pass through a "channel" more or less that is part of the starter mount. If you can get to this "channel" you may be able to drill a hole about 5/16 to 3/8 of an inch in size in the starter as close to the block as possible-this will expose the threads of the seized bolt near the block where they thread in. If you have enough clearance you can heat the bolt threads through this opening with a propane or oxy-acetelene torch until it is starting to glow slightly,let it cool for a minute or two and then douse it with PB Blaster or equivalent-as it cools the penetrant will wick up into the threads and it will come loose. I can't emphasize enough that you need to be extremely careful when using any type of open flame in a boat-obviously alot of nearby combustibles-have an extinguisher ready. As I said before you may not have the room to do this but if you do it has saved me many times with starter/exhaust bolts. Be careful and good luck.

[Shine]

I'm not sure if you have the acess to try this , but it has worked in the past for me. Most starters have long bolts that pass through a "channel" more or less that is part of the starter mount. If you can get to this "channel" you may be able to drill a hole about 5/16 to 3/8 of an inch in size in the starter as close to the block as possible-this will expose the threads of the seized bolt near the block where they thread in. If you have enough clearance you can heat the bolt threads through this opening with a propane or oxy-acetelene torch until it is starting to glow slightly,let it cool for a minute or two and then douse it with PB Blaster or equivalent-as it cools the penetrant will wick up into the threads and it will come loose. I can't emphasize enough that you need to be extremely careful when using any type of open flame in a boat-obviously alot of nearby combustibles-have an extinguisher ready. As I said before you may not have the room to do this but if you do it has saved me many times with starter/exhaust bolts. Be careful and good luck.

If it does blow up he could sue PB Blaster and malibu and win... Sorry couldnt resist...

[JBOB]

If it does blow up he could sue PB Blaster and malibu and win... Sorry couldnt resist...

LOL- I'm sure there is someone out there who has already!

[PUskier]

I didnt have time to post yesterday, but I did want to follow up. Thanks for all the great ideas. The old starter still worked, but not all the time. So I was able to get the boat started and the block hot. I also used a mini torch to theat the area of the block right at the threads. I found a thin walled socket that originally wouldnt fit, but with a little force I was able to jam it on. All that combined with elbow grease and prayer, it came loose. I think heating up the block made the big difference.

The new starter is in and working great.

[11VLX]

I have had luck, even when PB Blaster didn't work with using liquid graphite (lock cylinder lubricant).

[martinarcher]

I didnt have time to post yesterday, but I did want to follow up. Thanks for all the great ideas. The old starter still worked, but not all the time. So I was able to get the boat started and the block hot. I also used a mini torch to theat the area of the block right at the threads. I found a thin walled socket that originally wouldnt fit, but with a little force I was able to jam it on. All that combined with elbow grease and prayer, it came loose. I think heating up the block made the big difference.

The new starter is in and working great.

Nice....isn't that moment when it starts to turn, right as you think the bolt is going to break or strip and awesome feeling!!

Glad you got it changed!