The oil that is going to change all oils.

[UofK fanatic]

Saw this oil in local NAPA store today. If it is half used why do you think its not half the price? They had iot for 2.99 a qt.

http://nextgen.valvoline.com/

[skier_88]

I won't be buying this.....50% used oil and practically the same price....

[martinarcher]

I won't be buying this.....50% used oil and practically the same price....

Agreed! I'll stick to my new synthetic oil. It works great and doesn't cost that much more!

Selling me a recycled plastic bag with my groceries is one thing, but my engine deserves and will continue to get new motor oil!

[DIE2SURF]

If it goes through the same refining process as virgin crude oil and meets/exceeds those same standards, I'd use it...assumming it doesn't cost more.

[Malibudude]

How clean do you think oil that comes out of the ground is? Properly refined, it should be no different than virgin oil.

[martinarcher]

Most of the oil studies I have ready not only talk about fuel, water, metal, etc in the oil, but also the resistance of the oil to break down over time. I don't see how you can filter contaminants out of old oil and it all of the sudden is ready to go back in an engine for another 5k? If oil breaks down and it's ability to provide wear protection and maintain a film strength between metal parts breaks down, IMO refining it won't bring that property back.

[REW]

How clean do you think oil that comes out of the ground is? Properly refined, it should be no different than virgin oil.

Still should be cheeper, Leave the $1.00 donation off and the price will drop. Maybe in the lead slead (airport beater) but for the rest I will wait until the results of "field" testing are in.

[85 Barefoot]

Most of the oil studies I have ready not only talk about fuel, water, metal, etc in the oil, but also the resistance of the oil to break down over time. I don't see how you can filter contaminants out of old oil and it all of the sudden is ready to go back in an engine for another 5k? If oil breaks down and it's ability to provide wear protection and maintain a film strength between metal parts breaks down, IMO refining it won't bring that property back.

refining is just a chemical process to breakdown and create the sought-after molecules. When oil breaks down, the molecules do break down (which is why synthetic lasts longer, the bonds are synthetic not natural and last longer), but if part of the process is rebuild the molecules to provide the appropriate shear stats, it's all good with me.

[Malibudude]

Most of the oil studies I have ready not only talk about fuel, water, metal, etc in the oil, but also the resistance of the oil to break down over time. I don't see how you can filter contaminants out of old oil and it all of the sudden is ready to go back in an engine for another 5k? If oil breaks down and it's ability to provide wear protection and maintain a film strength between metal parts breaks down, IMO refining it won't bring that property back.

Oil does not "break down". it gets contaminated with Fuel, carbon and wear material etc. or am I off base on that?

Still should be cheeper, Leave the $1.00 donation off and the price will drop. Maybe in the lead slead (airport beater) but for the rest I will wait until the results of "field" testing are in.

Price will be the same don't see that changing.

I think maybe motor oil is more on an emotional issue than technical issue.

[85 Barefoot]

Oil does not "break down". it gets contaminated with Fuel, carbon and wear material etc. or am I off base on that?

Price will be the same don't see that changing.

I think maybe motor oil is more on an emotional issue than technical issue.

It does break down, which is why synthetics last longer. IF the need for changing oil was just for contamination then synthetics would offer no benefit.

[martinarcher]

Oil does not "break down". it gets contaminated with Fuel, carbon and wear material etc. or am I off base on that?

Price will be the same don't see that changing.

I think maybe motor oil is more on an emotional issue than technical issue.

I'm no chemist, but I thought the bonds in the oil actually did break down and that is what required the oil to be changed.

Quick....we need a chemist!!

You might be right on the emotional issue! I just am too attached to my engines and like them running in tip top shape.

[99response]

Oil does not "break down". it gets contaminated with Fuel, carbon and wear material etc. or am I off base on that?

Price will be the same don't see that changing.

I think maybe motor oil is more on an emotional issue than technical issue.

Additive packages do "break down" or more appropriately get depleted over time w/ use, and the oil gets contaminated and and also acidified from combustion products. There are several products on the market for HD diesel engines that have time release additive package filters which can extend the life of oil dramatically.

But yes very emotional issue for sure.

-Chris

[REW]

Oil does not "break down". it gets contaminated with Fuel, carbon and wear material etc. or am I off base on that?

Price will be the same don't see that changing.

I think maybe motor oil is more on an emotional issue than technical issue.

Oil does break down if it just got contaminated all you would need is a better filter.

Price should change as the source materal is cheeper. Most states make you pay a tax (fee) when you buy the oil to dispose of the used materal. Then the retailers have to pay somone to come and get the oil. (why I have to pay a tax and the retailer has to pay as well is beyond me) The point is you are not getting the stuff from out of the ground, it is coming from the local jiffy lube. It should be cheeper.

[Malibudude]

I'm no chemist, but I thought the bonds in the oil actually did break down and that is what required the oil to be changed.

Quick....we need a chemist!!

You might be right on the emotional issue! I just am too attached to my engines and like them running in tip top shape.

Ya, I don't think I'd be using it myself. At the end of the day if the specs are met or exceeded one would extrapolate the proper testing was done.

I wouldn't be surprised if a certain percentage of recycled oil ended back up into the regular non-recycled refining process. Wasn't there an oil drydene back in the 70's that was recycled oil?

Chemistry...well took that but it was after lunch and lunch more than often ended up at the pub....

[Bobby Light]

The real deal is this. The oil itself does not break down, it gets contaminated by doing it's job and that reduces the lubricity of it because it has alot of extra crap in it.

[Malibudude]

Additive packages do "break down" or more appropriately get depleted over time w/ use, and the oil gets contaminated and and also acidified from combustion products. There are several products on the market for HD diesel engines that have time release additive package filters which can extend the life of oil dramatically.

But yes very emotional issue for sure.

-Chris

So is it just the additives that breakdown only or both oil and additives then?

Oil does break down if it just got contaminated all you would need is a better filter.

Price should change as the source materal is cheeper. Most states make you pay a tax (fee) when you buy the oil to dispose of the used materal. Then the retailers have to pay somone to come and get the oil. (why I have to pay a tax and the retailer has to pay as well is beyond me) The point is you are not getting the stuff from out of the ground, it is coming from the local jiffy lube. It should be cheeper.

You have to pay to be green...now doesn't that make you feel better....

My understanding was the filter was only for particles and such not for water/acidity or other contaminants that can pass through it.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Recycled oil has been used successfully in fleets for some time now.....

[85 Barefoot]

The real deal is this. The oil itself does not break down, it gets contaminated by doing it's job and that reduces the lubricity of it because it has alot of extra crap in it.

It absolutely does. Oil needs changing for many other reasons than contamination. Molecules are literally torn apart reducing its effectiveness.

Edited May 17, 2011 by 85 Barefoot

[Bobby Light]

It absolutely does.

It might surprise you how little I care if you believe what I said or not, but what I said is fact.

[85 Barefoot]

It might surprise you how little I care if you believe what I said or not, but what I said is fact.

OK. Then here's a link you might find interesting:

http://www.off-road-outdoors.com/Oil-breakdown.html

And from that article, among several other reasons oil needs to be changed other than contamination:

Shearing

Many people use the term “oil breakdown” to represent what they think is a motor oil that has “broken down” and is in need of changing, when in reality the actual process of “ oil breakdown” is not properly understood. The correct word for this is oil breakdown due to shear forces. An internal combustion engine imparts high shear forces on motor oil, which is sandwiched between two rotating or sliding forces under load and heat.

The molecular structure is essentially torn apart by these mechanical shear forces. The component of the oil that is affected most by these shear forces is the viscosity improvers. These viscosity improvers allow the manufacturer of the oil to create multi-grade oils suitable for a wider temperature range of operation. The end result of these shear forces is a decrease in the viscosity of the oil, as well as a decrease in the viscosity index.

Once motor oil has sheared beyond a specific point it will not revert back to it’s base structure when it cools down and the shear forces have ceased. This applies to petroleum oils only, synthetic motor oils are extremely resistant to the detrimental effects of shear forces. Another way to explain this phenomenon is as follows: If you look at the molecular structure of motor oil under a microscope, you will see chains of molecules grouped together and linked together. The smaller molecular particles are attached to the larger ones. As oil shears, these smaller molecules break away and align in the chain.

As engine heat and shear forces continue and increase, these molecules break away from the base structure and, in the process, provide less and less resistance to wear. If this shearing and excessive continues over an extended period of time, engine damage can occur. If shearing is only mild, then when the oil cools down the structure will revert back to its original structure and still be capable of providing proper engine protection. Multi-viscosity petroleum motor oils are more susceptible to shearing than straight weight petroleum motor oils. As previously mentioned, synthetic oils are extremely shear resistant and less prone to oil breakdown.

I didn't cherry pick this article. If contamination was the sole issue, synthetics would have no bearing on change intervals.

[Bobby Light]

Ok whatever you say.

[85 Barefoot]

Ok whatever you say.

I'm not saying it. I posted what others say. But for fun I went back and looked at other articles online and not one (that I saw) agrees with you. But either way, I'm not a chemist or chemical engineer, I'm just somebody who puts some stock in what those people have to say, and based on that gave my initial opinion, that it would seem refining can rebuild molecular chains broken down through the normal oil lifecycle,

Edited May 17, 2011 by 85 Barefoot

[Bobby Light]

I'm not saying it. I posted what others say. But for fun I went back and looked at other articles online and not one (that I saw) agrees with you. But either way, I'm not a chemist or chemical engineer, I'm just somebody who puts some stock in what those people have to say.

If it's just a website you want as reference I looked one up for you. Pretty neutral one at that I think everyone can agree. You can always find a something on the web to support an argument either way. This particular subject I just know a little about, everything no but a little. If the oils "broke down" they would not be able to be re-refined into useable oil again. The other addatives that make up motor oil break down and can be removed from the base stock and added again, not to mention the contaminates that are captured in the oil during use. The oil filter prolongs the process by removing as much of that as possible.

I can talk to the guys that engineer the oil tomorrow if you'd like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

Pay particular attention to the statement at the very bottom.

"The oil in a motor oil product does not break down or burn as it is used in an engine—it simply gets contaminated with particles and chemicals that make it a less effective lubricant"

[85 Barefoot]

If it's just a website you want as reference I looked one up for you. Pretty neutral one at that I think everyone can agree. You can always find a something on the web to support an argument either way. This particular subject I just know a little about, everything no but a little. If the oils "broke down" they would not be able to be re-refined into useable oil again. The other addatives that make up motor oil break down and can be removed from the base stock and added again, not to mention the contaminates that are captured in the oil during use. The oil filter prolongs the process by removing as much of that as possible.

I can talk to the guys that engineer the oil tomorrow if you'd like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

Pay particular attention to the statement at the very bottom.

"The oil in a motor oil product does not break down or burn as it is used in an engine—it simply gets contaminated with particles and chemicals that make it a less effective lubricant"

I would agree (about sources of info on the internet), though I didn't see any that said they don't physically break down as well. As for wiki quote, the source for that was an oil recycling organization. That same article says: The bulk of a typical motor oil consists of hydrocarbons with between 18 and 34 carbon atoms per molecule.[6] ....When that molecular chain is physically torn apart, from what I have seen, can be reformulated in order to get those molecules back to the optimal size. I'd love to hear what guys that "engineer the oil" have to say about a misconception that the oil's molecules are physically broken down. One read through this thread confirms there are a lot of people under that belief. While you're at it, ask them why synthetic oil has longer change intervals if the only reason for changing oil is contamination. That would make absolutely no sense if the oil didn't physically stand up to use for a longer period of time.

[CumminsBu]

It must be human nature to fight about Oil.