V drive on Lake Michigan

[Michigan boarder]

We are thinking of making a move to a nearby lake that also has access to Lake Michigan. The Echelon will be nothing but a mistake going out on the big lake, that I know. I took our prior boat (18' Four Winns I/O) our many times in low chops. Has anyone been out on Lake Michigan on a 23LSV or similar? Obviously you have to pick your day with any boat that small, but can you get by in it OK? I like the bu's and dont want to go back to an I/O. We're still not sure if this is a move we want to make yet, just kicking around ideas.

[Tao of Wake]

Yes, I've taken our VLX out on the big lake many times. As you said, you have to pick the right times. I did take it out one time in about 3-4 foot waves, and it did well, but I was careful not to take a wave head-on.

[Indyxc]

Yes, I've taken our VLX out on the big lake many times. As you said, you have to pick the right times. I did take it out one time in about 3-4 foot waves, and it did well, but I was careful not to take a wave head-on.

Yeah, it honestly comes down to the day. I've been out on lake michigan (sailing and jet skiing, never on the vlx) when it was glass which would be a boarding paradise, and obviously when it looks like a washing machine.

If you do take it out on lake michigan, a button up bow cover might help. However, really just check the weather before you head out. On shore winds from across the lake, or from the north are obviously bad. Off shore winds from the south are best (assuming you are on the south side of the lake).

Also a marine band radio is a must then. I always carry a hand held one jet ski or sailing.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Indyxc

[Sixball]

Yeah, it honestly comes down to the day. I've been out on lake michigan (sailing and jet skiing, never on the vlx) when it was glass which would be a boarding paradise, and obviously when it looks like a washing machine.

If you do take it out on lake michigan, a button up bow cover might help. However, really just check the weather before you head out. On shore winds from across the lake, or from the north are obviously bad. Off shore winds from the south are best (assuming you are on the south side of the lake).

Also a marine band radio is a must then. I always carry a hand held one jet ski or sailing.

on big lakes and picking your days. We spent many days sometimes 3 weeks at a time sailing the grate lakes the one thing I will say is use a local A.M. radio Do Not!!! rely on NOWA weather its good for a check but only gets updated if you have major changes. We have been cough more then once in some very bad squalls on the grate lakes and NOWA had nothing on them.

We got caught in one I was just about to contact the Coast Gard and let them know our position and if I did not check back every 15 minuets the last position is Where you should start your search. All went well and nothing but brown pants but that was on a 43' sail boat very capable of extrema water.

If you see bad weather approaching on the grate lakes and your in a smaller boat get to shelter or very close. Never take the weather for granted on the big lakes.

[Slayer]

on big lakes and picking your days. We spent many days sometimes 3 weeks at a time sailing the grate lakes the one thing I will say is use a local A.M. radio Do Not!!! rely on NOWA weather its good for a check but only gets updated if you have major changes. We have been cough more then once in some very bad squalls on the grate lakes and NOWA had nothing on them.

We got caught in one I was just about to contact the Coast Gard and let them know our position and if I did not check back every 15 minuets the last position is Where you should start your search. All went well and nothing but brown pants but that was on a 43' sail boat very capable of extrema water.

If you see bad weather approaching on the grate lakes and your in a smaller boat get to shelter or very close. Never take the weather for granted on the big lakes.

We have been caught in some nasty nasty stuff near Frankfort salmon fishing. You can be out in 3-4' waves, then suddenly they double in size with no warning. Makes for a VERY interesting ride back to the slip when you're 8+ miles out in a 22' deep V fishing boat.

[Indyxc]

We have been caught in some nasty nasty stuff near Frankfort salmon fishing. You can be out in 3-4' waves, then suddenly they double in size with no warning. Makes for a VERY interesting ride back to the slip when you're 8+ miles out in a 22' deep V fishing boat.

Man,

In a ski boat I would never go more than a mile off shore, definitely no more than visual distance.

I've been out sailing on a 18 foot hobie, which can pretty much take on anything your throw at it. The problem is when lake michigan gets really rough, its not like the ocean with long period between the waves. When the weather becomes extreme its literally like a washing machine with waves coming at you from every direction and side. Sometimes you'll get the long period waves, but you need a steady onshore wind for a couple days for that to happen.

The weather can change EXTREMELY fast out there.

[Slayer]

Man,

In a ski boat I would never go more than a mile off shore, definitely no more than visual distance.

I've been out sailing on a 18 foot hobie, which can pretty much take on anything your throw at it. The problem is when lake michigan gets really rough, its not like the ocean with long period between the waves. When the weather becomes extreme its literally like a washing machine with waves coming at you from every direction and side. Sometimes you'll get the long period waves, but you need a steady onshore wind for a couple days for that to happen.

The weather can change EXTREMELY fast out there.

It can be rather scary when that happens and you're absolutely right about the direction of the chop. It's always inconsistent.

[Michigan boarder]

Thanks guys, that all is pretty much what I thought. And I do understand the risks, I've been out on several charter boats on Lake MI in nasty weather. I've seen swells coming at us in a 32' fishing boat looking like it's going to roll us. Takes a lot for a charter guy to call it a day due to weather, they're nuts. In fact, I've never seen or heard it done. And yes, there is very little relaxing on the big lake when you are captain. Always checking the horizon, monitoring engine sounds, guages, etc. But it's worth it.

We would usually travel early am towards the wind, at sunrise, before the breeze kicked up, then travel with the chop back to the launch. So if there was a north wind, we would put in at St. Joe at 6am and travel north to Saugatuck. Hit the beach, eat lunch, then travel back south to St. Joe with the chop. Off the water by noon. Do the opposite on a south wind day. But that was with the I/O, which only took a wave over the bow once. The Echelon wouldn't even make it thru the channel. It sounds like the v-drives will ride up with the waves better, unlike the Echelon that would prefer to plow thru them. I guess that's more of my question, will a v-drive take a wave like an I/O? I could just go with the I/O, but I expect to still do a lot of boarding/footing on the inland lake, with the occasional trip out on the big lake.

And I agree with the distance from shore. 6 miles out and that bath tub effect is ridiculous, I learned that with the charter fishing. Guys start blowing chow on a bad day that far out. I'd be out a mile at best. Part of the fun is watching the shoreline, not being out in the middle of the puddle.

[Slayer]

Thanks guys, that all is pretty much what I thought. And I do understand the risks, I've been out on several charter boats on Lake MI in nasty weather. I've seen swells coming at us in a 32' fishing boat looking like it's going to roll us. Takes a lot for a charter guy to call it a day due to weather, they're nuts. In fact, I've never seen or heard it done. And yes, there is very little relaxing on the big lake when you are captain. Always checking the horizon, monitoring engine sounds, guages, etc. But it's worth it.

We would usually travel early am towards the wind, at sunrise, before the breeze kicked up, then travel with the chop back to the launch. So if there was a north wind, we would put in at St. Joe at 6am and travel north to Saugatuck. Hit the beach, eat lunch, then travel back south to St. Joe with the chop. Off the water by noon. Do the opposite on a south wind day. But that was with the I/O, which only took a wave over the bow once. The Echelon wouldn't even make it thru the channel. It sounds like the v-drives will ride up with the waves better, unlike the Echelon that would prefer to plow thru them. I guess that's more of my question, will a v-drive take a wave like an I/O? I could just go with the I/O, but I expect to still do a lot of boarding/footing on the inland lake, with the occasional trip out on the big lake.

And I agree with the distance from shore. 6 miles out and that bath tub effect is ridiculous, I learned that with the charter fishing. Guys start blowing chow on a bad day that far out. I'd be out a mile at best. Part of the fun is watching the shoreline, not being out in the middle of the puddle.

So if you make the move, I presume you're keeping the echelon? Or would you be selling it?

[Michigan boarder]

So if you make the move, I presume you're keeping the echelon? Or would you be selling it?

Definitely would sell the Echelon. But right now that's crazy talk, we would have to sell the current lake house first.

[jrz1]

Hell, I took a wave over the bow on Lake Norman during one of my first outings in my 247. Of course it was avoidable and 99% newbie driver error/inattentiveness but I'm not sure I'd take it out on Lake Michigan unless it was flat as glass and even then I wouldn't stray too far from shore etc. It's so much different than my old I/O. If I were getting a boat to consistently hit rougher water I'd go I/O with higher bow/freeboard etc.

[msuwaterski]

Are you talking Lake Charleviox? I also know of a few lakes near TC and Holland that have access to the big water but don't remember the names. Now, just becuase your lake has access to the big water does not mean you have to go out there. Nor does it mean you have to sell the Echelon. Come on man, think BIG!! Build a 50' pier and keep the jet ski's (which are fun on big water) and the Echelon on one side and throw a nice 40' Sundancer on the other side. Then invite me over!!

[Slayer]

Are you talking Lake Charleviox? I also know of a few lakes near TC and Holland that have access to the big water but don't remember the names. Now, just becuase your lake has access to the big water does not mean you have to go out there. Nor does it mean you have to sell the Echelon. Come on man, think BIG!! Build a 50' pier and keep the jet ski's (which are fun on big water) and the Echelon on one side and throw a nice 40' Sundancer on the other side. Then invite me over!!

I like your thinking!

[jk13]

Geez, if you're talking Charlevoix just buy the Winn house and be done with it. Park anything you want and keep the Echelon in the rafters for those glass days.

[MalibuNation]

I remember this same ? was asked about a Response out of Chicago, most said no, so said yes. I'll 2nd you'll be fine.

[Michigan boarder]

It's actually Bear Lake in North Muskegon. We moved to N. Muskegon a year ago (work related) and kept the lake house in Lawrence (96 minutes away). Well, it's a great community, one of the best schools in the state, the whole family is happy, so we are staying. Bear Lake is 2 blocks away, Muskegon Lake is 2 blocks the other way, and Lake Michigan is 2 miles away. So, now that we know we like it there, why keep 2 houses and drive 96 minutes to the lake? My wife will say lake quality - Shafer Lake is deep and beautiful, Bear Lake is shallow and not very clean. But here we are in May and I haven't been to the lake house this month and won't until Memorila weekend cuz we have so much going on.

Getting on the big lake would be a rare occasion, but it would be impossible for me not to get tempted, at least twice a year. Which makes me think it's stupid to sell the Echelon, I'm sure there will be people to do that with that own I/O's, and I can pitch in gas, trade for a pull, etc.

If I get to the point of buying that Sundancer, I'll host the best WOW ever! We'll even pull a barge full of dunebuggies up to Silver Lake State park. Now THAT's thinking big!

Looking at a house on Bear Lake tonight. Hope to get some good lake feedback from frontage owners over the weekend.

Thanks for the replies, just thinking this thru. I love my little Echelon, and it will be perfect for Bear Lake. Lake MI is just a whole different animal, that can't be trusted.

[mibarefooter]

I like your thinking!

[Slayer]

It's actually Bear Lake in North Muskegon. We moved to N. Muskegon a year ago (work related) and kept the lake house in Lawrence (96 minutes away). Well, it's a great community, one of the best schools in the state, the whole family is happy, so we are staying. Bear Lake is 2 blocks away, Muskegon Lake is 2 blocks the other way, and Lake Michigan is 2 miles away. So, now that we know we like it there, why keep 2 houses and drive 96 minutes to the lake? My wife will say lake quality - Shafer Lake is deep and beautiful, Bear Lake is shallow and not very clean. But here we are in May and I haven't been to the lake house this month and won't until Memorila weekend cuz we have so much going on.

Getting on the big lake would be a rare occasion, but it would be impossible for me not to get tempted, at least twice a year. Which makes me think it's stupid to sell the Echelon, I'm sure there will be people to do that with that own I/O's, and I can pitch in gas, trade for a pull, etc.

If I get to the point of buying that Sundancer, I'll host the best WOW ever! We'll even pull a barge full of dunebuggies up to Silver Lake State park. Now THAT's thinking big!

Looking at a house on Bear Lake tonight. Hope to get some good lake feedback from frontage owners over the weekend.

Thanks for the replies, just thinking this thru. I love my little Echelon, and it will be perfect for Bear Lake. Lake MI is just a whole different animal, that can't be trusted.

Good thinking. The Muskegon area has much to offer outside of the lakes. I wish you the best.

[jk13]

It's actually Bear Lake in North Muskegon. We moved to N. Muskegon a year ago (work related) and kept the lake house in Lawrence (96 minutes away). Well, it's a great community, one of the best schools in the state, the whole family is happy, so we are staying. Bear Lake is 2 blocks away, Muskegon Lake is 2 blocks the other way, and Lake Michigan is 2 miles away. So, now that we know we like it there, why keep 2 houses and drive 96 minutes to the lake? My wife will say lake quality - Shafer Lake is deep and beautiful, Bear Lake is shallow and not very clean. But here we are in May and I haven't been to the lake house this month and won't until Memorila weekend cuz we have so much going on.

Getting on the big lake would be a rare occasion, but it would be impossible for me not to get tempted, at least twice a year. Which makes me think it's stupid to sell the Echelon, I'm sure there will be people to do that with that own I/O's, and I can pitch in gas, trade for a pull, etc.

If I get to the point of buying that Sundancer, I'll host the best WOW ever! We'll even pull a barge full of dunebuggies up to Silver Lake State park. Now THAT's thinking big!

Looking at a house on Bear Lake tonight. Hope to get some good lake feedback from frontage owners over the weekend.

Thanks for the replies, just thinking this thru. I love my little Echelon, and it will be perfect for Bear Lake. Lake MI is just a whole different animal, that can't be trusted.

Is the channel from Bear Lake to Muskegon Lake passable with a larger boat? Looks narrow. We took the cat from Muskegon to Milwaukee a couple years ago and it certainly is a nice area. Muskegon Lake is larger than I thought, there were a lot of boats on there, many of them pretty big. Big mix, sailboats, runabouts, 40' go-fasts, fishing trawlers, jet skis, etc. The Coast Guard station is cool and the beach/harbor on Lake Michigan seems like a great place to play. You can certainly see quickly from the safety of the harbor how rough it is on the big lake. Strange thing was that at within about 5-10 miles of each shore line, there was a pretty good 2-3 foot chop, but the middle 70 miles or so was pure glass for 2 hours.

Being a bit smaller, Bear Lake seems like the place to be if that channel is passable for access to the bigger waters.

Edited May 12, 2011 by jk13

[Michigan boarder]

Is the channel from Bear Lake to Muskegon Lake passable with a larger boat? Looks narrow. We took the cat from Muskegon to Milwaukee a couple years ago and it certainly is a nice area. Muskegon Lake is larger than I thought, there were a lot of boats on there, many of them pretty big. Big mix, sailboats, runabouts, 40' go-fasts, fishing trawlers, jet skis, etc. The Coast Guard station is cool and the beach/harbor on Lake Michigan seems like a great place to play. You can certainly see quickly from the safety of the harbor how rough it is on the big lake. Strange thing was that at within about 5-10 miles of each shore line, there was a pretty good 2-3 foot chop, but the middle 70 miles or so was pure glass for 2 hours.

Being a bit smaller, Bear Lake seems like the place to be if that channel is passable for access to the bigger waters.

Yes, totally passable. The Bear Lake Tavern is located right on the channel and has some mooring piers. Had a few burgers there and watched several 28 foot deep V I/O's go in and out thru the channel. It's tight, but looks to be very routine.

We're hopping on the Cat this summer to Milwaukee, little family weekend trip. We saw it leave Muskegon lake while we were at the beach, that thing looks huge and very fast.

[Olddude]

Tough call! The Bear Lake gig would sure open up a lot of water to play on. Could you try the Echelon on a very calm morning sometime before you jumped to a V-Drive? I see a lot of small boats heading out to the Lake from South Haven but then I never stick around long enough to see if they make it back..... At the very least you could give it a careful try and if it works well enough you are good to go. If you feel like the V-Drive is a better option you always have that choice. In other words, try it and see how it goes!

[Michigan boarder]

Update: The Echelon has officially been on Lake Michigan. We brought it to Muskegon from the lake house last weekend and have been on Bear Lake a few times checking property. Last night was very calm, and after my 6th grader finished football practice we all went out on Lake Michigan and watched the sunset. It was the calmest I've ever seen Lake MI at that time of day, we were hitting 30+ mph, just cruising along. Man it was great. This is coming from our 80 acre lake, so that vast amount of endless water and shoreline is awesome. So I know I will have to pick my days, but when you live a couple of miles away, those days will be easy to pick.

Going out thru the channel I did get some looks...they were either "What the heck is THAT guy thinking?" or "Sweet boat". Not sure which.

That said, I do need ship-to-shore. And a tool kit. And a spare prop set up. And all the things that I never needed on our little lake!

Edit: The point of my update was the good news is I will not need to change boats to a v-drive or I/O. We were on Bear Lake just after Lake MI....wishing I had my barefoot suit.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Michigan boarder

[Indyxc]

Awesome man, definitely a paradise out there. Pick up a marine radio for like 100 bucks on eBay an along with a cell phone you should be in good shape.

Just remember the more you go out there the more comfortable and potentially the easier it becomes to rationalize going out in worse weather. I know I've done it and been caught in some nasty stuff, but it never gets safer. The big lake is never a joke.

[Michigan boarder]

Awesome man, definitely a paradise out there. Pick up a marine radio for like 100 bucks on eBay an along with a cell phone you should be in good shape.

Just remember the more you go out there the more comfortable and potentially the easier it becomes to rationalize going out in worse weather. I know I've done it and been caught in some nasty stuff, but it never gets safer. The big lake is never a joke.

I am with you 100% there. I will not be the story, they guy who went down in bad weather or submarined a wave, or lost a passenger, etc. Not that it CAN'T happen to me, it WON'T happen because I won't let it. The way I see it on the big lake is it will be a lot of fun for everyone but me - I am on the job, way more so than on the little lakes. Even with a 23LSV, it would be the same. I'll still enjoy it, but will also be sighing of relief when back inland. But thanks for the reminder, you are abolutely right.

[Sixball]

Update: The Echelon has officially been on Lake Michigan. We brought it to Muskegon from the lake house last weekend and have been on Bear Lake a few times checking property. Last night was very calm, and after my 6th grader finished football practice we all went out on Lake Michigan and watched the sunset. It was the calmest I've ever seen Lake MI at that time of day, we were hitting 30+ mph, just cruising along. Man it was great. This is coming from our 80 acre lake, so that vast amount of endless water and shoreline is awesome. So I know I will have to pick my days, but when you live a couple of miles away, those days will be easy to pick.

Going out thru the channel I did get some looks...they were either "What the heck is THAT guy thinking?" or "Sweet boat". Not sure which.

That said, I do need ship-to-shore. And a tool kit. And a spare prop set up. And all the things that I never needed on our little lake!

Edit: The point of my update was the good news is I will not need to change boats to a v-drive or I/O. We were on Bear Lake just after Lake MI....wishing I had my barefoot suit.

Check the safety requirements you will need to carry more things on the big lakes. Flares for one. P.S. keep an AM radio It will be much better for local weather.

I spent two days on lake Huron nothing but glass...... Bummer I was on a sail boat.