Current MC owner looking at Bu's - need advice

[TeamIDFC]

Greetings! Recently joined and have exstensively searched the archives, now I'd like to pick your brains, if I might...

Background:

Current boat: A '94 ProStar 190. One of the best skiing hulls ever built, and a long-time member of the family. We've also got a 24" pontoon boat for parties, and eventually would like to get rid of it and concentrate on one boat. (So no keeping the 190 and adding a v-drive wakeboarding boat.)

Historical boat use: Primarily for free-skiing in the mornings, and some fooling around with a high-pole and wakeboard/wake skate/air chair/tube/etc. Im an intermediate+ skier who benefits from the lovely, flat table, but...

Future boat use: This is where it gets tricky. I'm not a spring chicken anymore, and my back can't take more than a set every couple of days, so I'm spending more time on body-friendly activities like wake-boarding. I still want to be able to get an easy, flat set it, but I want racks, ballast, etc to be easily available for a quick jump to something else.

Purchase constraints:

Budget: The 190 isn't in the best of shape, so it is probably only worth about $8k-ish, and I can probably kick in another $15k, so we are in the sub-$25k range.

Size: I'd really like to get a boat that we can dump a bunch of people in comfortably a couple times a year (4th of July to see the fireworks, for example). I'd love to see 10 person seating (legally).

What I've looked at thus far:

Mastercraft: I started here as I've got one. The obvious choices are an X7 (or a 195 with racks/ballast) or an X9. The X9 is paned for its skiing wake, but it is a nice, big boat. The X7 is effectively my boat with an open bow, so it will ski well, but it is still a small boat and can't get 10 people in.

Malibu: Just started researching Bu's, though I seen them around Lk Sammamish all the time. In fact, what got me to this board was this boat 2001 Sunseter LXi - an '01 Sunsetter LXi. From reading the board is sounds like this might be an ideal option: as big as you can get with DD, skis well, has the Wedge, etc, etc. But at $25k it seems high, and it doesn't have PP or ballast other than the wedge.

Nautique: Never really in the price range, or they are old and trashed.

Everyone else: Haven't seen anything, but I might be missing something?

Finally, the questions for this most illustrious group:

1) Are they other boats (Bu's or other brands) that I'm missing or should be considering?

2) Is the LXi all it is purported to be?

3) Is $25k too high like it seems?

4) What else am I missing in my analysis?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Michael

Edited July 15, 2010 by TeamIDFC

[Malibudude]

First welcome to the Crew!

The SLXI is a great crossover boat had one for 8 years. It provides near world class slalom wakes, holds 10 people, 18 cu. ft. rear trunk can hold a tremendous amount of gear, fill a front ballast sac in the front ski locker and drop the wedge and it provides a great intermediate wakeboarding wake and back w/o major complications. That '01 looks like a great well maintained boat but 25K that guy is way over priced, and I'm partial to the SLXI, somewhere in the 20-22k range is more like it imho. The Titan tower is the best made tower out there. the hull is on Malibus diamond hull that creates great lift for soft wakes, yet slowed down at wakeboard speeds and the combination of ballast and the wedge provides a nice rampy wake. The one downside of this boat would be for surfing, real tough to get a decent wake for that out of and SLXI. The MC's seem to have a lower freeboard but the 197 does ski well, just the tracking isn't quite as good but that's splitting hairs.

Not sure how you think wakeboarding is easier on the body....it's the evil of all evil water sports...

[Ndawg12]

Your in good hands here, welcome to the crew! Stick around, you might learn something, but probably not from me

No, DD is going to give you 10 person capacity (plus gear) and be comfortable. It doesn't sound like you'll do that very often any ways so I would lower that as a priority. Even a 23' vdrive with 10 people and gear would be crowded!!

Keep looking, boatrader.com, onlyinboards.com, boats.com, craigslist, etc. You should be able to find something for less than that slxi you posted.

You might even want to consider the XTI if you need more room but at the cost of you slalom wake.

[Chia]

have you ever tried surfing? don't settle on a boat until you do.

i repeat myself every time someone ask this type of question.

The Malibu 2001 Sunsetter VLX is great all round boat. It is in your price range has a wedge. You can ski, surf, wakeboard and carry a lot of people when the need arises.

[Ndawg12]

have you ever tried surfing? don't settle on a boat until you do.

i repeat myself every time someone ask this type of question.

The Malibu 2001 Sunsetter VLX is great all round boat. It is in your price range has a wedge. You can ski, surf, wakeboard and carry a lot of people when the need arises.

Is that the VLX that they put on the diamond hull. How many of those are actually available? Doubt many but would be a good choice.

[stroker-ace]

Supra? I have been looking at those lately, but in V-Drive. They are priced comparable to Malibu. I do love my Bu tho.

[Malibudude]

have you ever tried surfing? don't settle on a boat until you do.

i repeat myself every time someone ask this type of question.

The Malibu 2001 Sunsetter VLX is great all round boat. It is in your price range has a wedge. You can ski, surf, wakeboard and carry a lot of people when the need arises.

There is one in Salt Lake but would have to get more pics to determine if it's on the diamond hull.

[eyepeeler]

I would advise going the chiropractor and getting your back strong and then keep the MC Prostar.

[Chia]

have you ever tried surfing? don't settle on a boat until you do.

i repeat myself every time someone ask this type of question.

The Malibu 2001 Sunsetter VLX is great all round boat. It is in your price range has a wedge. You can ski, surf, wakeboard and carry a lot of people when the need arises.

There is one in Salt Lake but would have to get more pics to determine if it's on the diamond hull.

the '01 SSVLX was on the diamond hull. there wasn't an option for the wake hull on that boat.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/page/specs.html?record=33

[wakeboy]

First off Welcome.

Ok so I am not going to be the best one to help you on this, but I think in order for the people on here to guide you to the right choice you need to list your needs by priority. Once people know what you "have to have" and what you are willing to compromise on, then they will be able to accurately point you to the boat for your needs. Wakeboard, Slaloming, 10 people, under 25k, and possible surfing is going to be extremely tough since you have so many boats completely different from each other that are awesome at meeting each criteria. If you want to bend on the wakeboarding and surfing then that will have you going to a completely different boat than if you are bending on the slaloming.

Too bad the VTX wasn't around in 2001, it might have been a good boat for your needs. I wish you the best of luck.

[Malibudude]

the '01 SSVLX was on the diamond hull. there wasn't an option for the wake hull on that boat.

http://www.themalibu....html?record=33

I know but given peoples lack of knowledge and the confusing monikers use over the years it would be a wakesetter and not a Sunsetter.

[TeamIDFC]

@MalibuDude: Wakeboarding is at least easier on the back getting out of the hole, rather than my double-high-wrap slalom boots...

@EyePeeler: Cute... Even with the stronger back, the 190 is a very limited-use machine. Time for something a little more versatile.

@Cervelo and others: A v-drive for skiing? I'm skeptical, but genuinely interested any honest "I've skied it" feedback. I've skied a couple times behind v-drive and coming from the uber-flat ProStar 190 wake they are sort of like climbing a mountain each pass. The MC guys say the X1 (formerly the original XStar) is a "skiable" v-drive, and when I tried it I wasn't able to get it trimmed out well enough to make a reasonable pass.

But, this is the crux of the problem, eh? The SLXI seems to benefit from the DD, but the SSVLX would be awesome if it could ski.

At this point I'd trade a better ski-wake for a poor-to-non-existent surfing wake. I think...

[85 Barefoot]

Is that the VLX that they put on the diamond hull. How many of those are actually available? Doubt many but would be a good choice.

It's the same hull as the 02-04 sunscape lsv's too.

[chadwick02]

99-03 sunscape 21LSV. Very good ski boat - a bud just set his new PB behind mine last week before the new owners came to pick it up

22 off @36mph. A great family boat, board and surf wakes are great, and should be in your budget.

Check my post in this thread for some pictures of the wakes. http://www.themalibu..._1entry383425

- Chad

edit - err maybe it is just 02-04 as barefoot mentioned above.

Edited July 15, 2010 by chadwick02

[TrickyNicky]

First off Welcome.

Ok so I am not going to be the best one to help you on this, but I think in order for the people on here to guide you to the right choice you need to list your needs by priority. Once people know what you "have to have" and what you are willing to compromise on, then they will be able to accurately point you to the boat for your needs. Wakeboard, Slaloming, 10 people, under 25k, and possible surfing is going to be extremely tough since you have so many boats completely different from each other that are awesome at meeting each criteria. If you want to bend on the wakeboarding and surfing then that will have you going to a completely different boat than if you are bending on the slaloming.

Too bad the VTX wasn't around in 2001, it might have been a good boat for your needs. I wish you the best of luck.

I think that SS VLX would do everything the VTX would do, a lil less shabby on the big wake sports and a little more shabby on the small wake sports. Lots of room for 10 ppl too. I think his price is high but I see very little doubt that he will have any trouble selling it.

Over my time on this site the one continual question I keep asking myself is why Malibu doesn't keep selling the sunsetter vlx. By the sounds of it, it does everything great and if they came out with a new one it wouldn't be too hard to put two hard tanks in the rear and maybe even a bow ballast in the front and you'd have the perfect all-in-one machine. Of course than you'd just have a 21ft VTX...which is just a VLX with a diamond hull...Damn it, I've run in circles.

But seriously I can't count the ammount of threads I've read bragging about the SS LXI and SS VLX, sometimes I wonder whether I should have got one of those instead of my VTX. Sounds like the perfect boat and I think they would sell like hot cakes if Malibu still made them. Personally I would jump on that boat and never look back, a lil extra money now could save you a LOT of headaches after. Don't worry about what its worth (NADA) worry about what it's worth to YOU. (no extra ballast needed, enough room for everyone, great slalom wakes, quality wakeboard wakes)

[TeamIDFC]

...you need to list your needs by priority. ... Wakeboard, Slaloming, 10 people, under 25k, and possible surfing is going to be extremely tough

Fair question:

1) Price

2) Slalom

3) People hauler/comfort

4) Wakeboard/wake skate/air chair

5) Surfing

Per my previous post: if there is a v-drive that is truely acceptable for skiing I'm all over it, but I need some real-world data to make that comprimise...

(Thanks for all the great comments!)

[85 Barefoot]

@MalibuDude: Wakeboarding is at least easier on the back getting out of the hole, rather than my double-high-wrap slalom boots...

@EyePeeler: Cute... Even with the stronger back, the 190 is a very limited-use machine. Time for something a little more versatile.

@Cervelo and others: A v-drive for skiing? I'm skeptical, but genuinely interested any honest "I've skied it" feedback. I've skied a couple times behind v-drive and coming from the uber-flat ProStar 190 wake they are sort of like climbing a mountain each pass. The MC guys say the X1 (formerly the original XStar) is a "skiable" v-drive, and when I tried it I wasn't able to get it trimmed out well enough to make a reasonable pass.

But, this is the crux of the problem, eh? The SLXI seems to benefit from the DD, but the SSVLX would be awesome if it could ski.

At this point I'd trade a better ski-wake for a poor-to-non-existent surfing wake. I think...

Frankly, it's pretty hard to compare ANYHTING to your 190!

But, I can tell you that a 2004 21 lsv skis better than a 2010 mastercraft x-14 which is certified to pull 3 event class c tourneys. Now, the lsv isn't a response, but it's very skiable.

[85 Barefoot]

99-03 sunscape 21LSV. Very good ski boat - a bud just set his new PB behind mine last week before the new owners came to pick it up

22 off @36mph. A great family boat, board and surf wakes are great, and should be in your budget.

Check my post in this thread for some pictures of the wakes. http://www.themalibu..._1entry383425

- Chad

edit - err maybe it is just 02-04 as barefoot mentioned above.

01 was the first year of a diamond hulled 21 foot vdrive hence why cervelo was mentioning the 2001 ssvlx.

Since they only made one dimaond hulled vlx it's a lot easier to refer to diamond hulls as lsvs.

[TeamIDFC]

Frankly, it's pretty hard to compare ANYHTING to your 190!

I know ... that's the problem!

But, I can tell you that a 2004 21 lsv skis better than a 2010 mastercraft x-14 which is certified to pull 3 event class c tourneys. Now, the lsv isn't a response, but it's very skiable.

That's good news. Interesting...

So, check me if I’m on track here:

For Malibus, it seems the Diamond hull is the way to go, particularly in my price point. That means:

Direct Drives:

SLXI (not sure the years)

V-Drives

02-04 Sunscape LSV

2001 Sunsetter VLX

[TrickyNicky]

I know ... that's the problem!

Look on the bright side, almost ANY boat is goign to produce better wakeboard and surf waves and be WAY more accomodating.

Something thats been said a thousand times is that no v-drive will ski as well as a DD. But there are some very good contenders. I have a VTX with diamond hull, (currently Malibu' best slalom v-drive, along with sunscape lsv , sam hull). I skied behind a 95 response (comparable to your ps 190) and I'm never going to tell you my VTX ski's as well because it doesn't. But I have yet to get out on the boat and NOT want to ski because of the wake. I have not been frustrated by the wake and I certainly don't think about the wake when I'm out there, I just ski. So for me it is at least good enough that I can ski my heart out without catching air or getting frustrated. On top of it all my boat wakeboards, surfs and barefoots and I'll do them all in one outing from the dock without hesitation.

Unless you stick with your PS 190 you are going to have to compromise some on the ski wake, but get out there and test/ski some boats, v-drives, and see if they're good enough for you. If they are than problem solved and if not than some ppl will have to sit on the dock because you should stick to a dd.

[TeamIDFC]

Did some more searching and there isn't a lot of inventory (what a shock! ), but I'm trying to nail down year/hull combos.

If we assume a diamond hull is the best way to get a ski wake, can anyone help fill in the table below? (I can't find hull info on the reference section).

Direct Drives:

xxxx - 200x SunSetter LXI

V-Drives

02-04 Sunscape LSV

2001 Sunsetter VLX

The challenge is going to be trying to find one to ski behind without a trip to another state... anyone in the Seattle area got one?

[RTS]

I'm not in Seattle, but if you happen to have a vacation planned to the Orlando area any time soon, I'd be happy to demo my '02 Sunsetter LXi.

I think it would be a great boat for you, based on what you have said. But they can be tough to find, and people seem to always ask a little too much for them. But that's just my observation.

Edited July 15, 2010 by rts

[Malibudude]

Did some more searching and there isn't a lot of inventory (what a shock! ), but I'm trying to nail down year/hull combos.

If we assume a diamond hull is the best way to get a ski wake, can anyone help fill in the table below? (I can't find hull info on the reference section).

Direct Drives:

xxxx - 200x SunSetter LXI

V-Drives

02-04 Sunscape LSV

2001 Sunsetter VLX

The challenge is going to be trying to find one to ski behind without a trip to another state... anyone in the Seattle area got one?

All SLXI's are on the diamond hull but you only want '99-'04 after that they ballooned up and wasn't good for anything.

[shawndoggy]

Did some more searching and there isn't a lot of inventory (what a shock! ), but I'm trying to nail down year/hull combos.

If we assume a diamond hull is the best way to get a ski wake, can anyone help fill in the table below? (I can't find hull info on the reference section).

Direct Drives:

xxxx - 200x SunSetter LXI

V-Drives

02-04 Sunscape LSV

2001 Sunsetter VLX

The challenge is going to be trying to find one to ski behind without a trip to another state... anyone in the Seattle area got one?

assuming it's the 23' sunscape lsv you reference, I'm pretty sure that all of the pre 2004 23' v-drive boats wore the diamond hull.... sunscape, escape and wakesetter. The 23' wake hull came about in 2004. Pretty sure.

Edited July 15, 2010 by shawndoggy

[msuwaterski]

I am sure most of the readers on here are tired of me posting about how much I love my new boat, but I think my knowledge of the boat you want to buy and your old boat may help you. First of all I have to say, I LOVE MY NEW BOAT! I just bought a '01 Sunsetter LXI in June and could not be happier. I slalom, wakeboard, and surf and this boat does it all. Here is some info to help you.

A) The slalom wake is dreamy. I am a course skier @ 34mph and get into 28off regularly. 15 off the wake is small and soft, 22 off there is a small soft bump that is hardly worth talking about, and anything deeper than that there is nothing. I have spent many hours behind a '94 prostar 190 (my buddy has one, ski behind it a few times every year), and you'll be hard pressed to find much to complain about between the to slalom wakes.

B) We wakeboard a lot. With the center ballast (370lbs) and wedge down this boat has a nice wake with a good lip. Many will argue that the wake isn't big enough, and it's true that there is no such thing as too big a wake. That said, this wake doesn't limit our crew at all and I have people doing backrolls, 3's, 5's and tantrums.

C) Surfing can be done, but you have to be light weight and real good at finding the sweet spot. I'm 155lbs and can ride ropeless with ballast, wedge, and 10 people in the boat, or replace the people with 400lbs rear, 400lbs surf side.

D) I have had up to 11 people in the boat comfortably; 7 adults and 4 kids. 4 wakeboards in the tower racks, surf board and ski in the trunk, small cooler behind drivers seat.

Lastly, if you click here you will see a price comparison of the boat I bought to some others.

Feel free to contact me with any questions. Welcome to the crew and good luck!

Jeff