Vapor lock? Dead on the water for an hour today

[shawndoggy]

After cruising around for several hours (with intermittent stops with key off) I got in the water to wakeboard and the boat would not start. Wind blew us in to shore. Fortunately no damage but I did flag someone down to tow us in. After about an hour the boat started again. Tried the wet rag on the fuel pump and venting the fuel rail, but neither did anything. Boat is 06 vride with lcr motor. Honestly my wife and I are really spooked by this. We are afraid to turn the boat off for fear it won't start. Fuel filter is new. Still have a cap rotor and plug wires to install but doesn't sound like that's the problem..... Does it?

[Bill_AirJunky]

So what the air temp hot out? Mine only did it when it was like 90+.

Did you run the blower? Or lift the engine cover to get things to cool off?

[shawndoggy]

So what the air temp hot out? Mine only did it when it was like 90+.

Did you run the blower? Or lift the engine cover to get things to cool off?

blower was running nearly the whole time. Temps were low 80s. Did lift the engine cover when this happened, but honestly not all that impressed with the heat in the compartment.

[MalibuNation]

Vapor Lock would be my first guess. Another trick is if you've been running hard don't shut it down right away ... let it idle for 3 minutes to help it cool down.

I have a 2003 and never had vapor lock until 2007, kind of weird. Living on a lake I never shut my boat off, it's go hard all day and put it away.

[sgt1970-442]

never heard of fuel injection and an electric pump vapor locking.

[JPSkier]

Can you describe what it did when it wouldn't start. I'm having vapor lock issues and when hot mine starts then seems to be fuel starved and dies. After sitting 30 minutes with the motor cover open it starts and runs perfect. I'm suspecting I have bad gas - yeah the other kind too. If you have a similar situation see links in post #68 on boat is a dogg.

[REW]

Vapor Lock would be my first guess. Another trick is if you've been running hard don't shut it down right away ... let it idle for 3 minutes to help it cool down.

I have a 2003 and never had vapor lock until 2007, kind of weird. Living on a lake I never shut my boat off, it's go hard all day and put it away.

ethanol was mandated in 06

See links on post 68 on boat is a dog

[shawndoggy]

So what the air temp hot out? Mine only did it when it was like 90+.

Did you run the blower? Or lift the engine cover to get things to cool off?

blower was running nearly the whole time. Temps were low 80s. Did lift the engine cover when this happened, but honestly not all that impressed with the heat in the compartment.

[shawndoggy]

Can you describe what it did when it wouldn't start. I'm having vapor lock issues and when hot mine starts then seems to be fuel starved and dies. After sitting 30 minutes with the motor cover open it starts and runs perfect. I'm suspecting I have bad gas - yeah the other kind too. If you have a similar situation see links in post #68 on boat is a dogg.

I've read about that. Mine is more it starts or it doesn't. If it starts it runs like a champ. But the fact that I don't know how to get it to start when it won't really kinda scares me.

[JPSkier]

are you checking the safety lanyard?

Edited May 30, 2010 by JPSkier

[scfdfireman]

With fuel injections higher fuel pressures and an only 80 degree day vapor lock is a stretch. My 06 did a similar thing and the dealer ended finding a bad computer under warranty. The next time that you go out bring a few tools as well a a can of starting fluid. If it happens again, first pull a plug wire and check for spark. If it's got spark, then I'd see if fuel is the issue by removing the spark arrester and spraying the starting fluid in the intake. If it makes a difference by sputtering or almost starting then it is a fuel problem.

[shawndoggy]

are you checking the safety lanyard?

Yes. I get gauges so I know it's not the lanyard. On my 06 if the lanyard is pulled the gauges won't come on even though it would crank over.

[shawndoggy]

With fuel injections higher fuel pressures and an only 80 degree day vapor lock is a stretch. My 06 did a similar thing and the dealer ended finding a bad computer under warranty. The next time that you go out bring a few tools as well a a can of starting fluid. If it happens again, first pull a plug wire and check for spark. If it's got spark, then I'd see if fuel is the issue by removing the spark arrester and spraying the starting fluid in the intake. If it makes a difference by sputtering or almost starting then it is a fuel problem.

Having read a few more of these threads, this is the way I'm starting to lean... That it's something other than vapor lock like the fuel pump or some sort of computer issue. When I vented the fuel rail I got a short spurt of liquid gas, not vapor. Truth be told the symptoms are more like being flooded..... Wait 45 minutes (after humbling myself to get a tow) and it started right up and ran fine.

I'm going to be putting a can of starter fluid in my toolbox.

[dalt1]

never heard of fuel injection and an electric pump vapor locking.

Once the fuel vaporizes in the fuel pump, it will no longer pump till it gets liquid back in it. Mine started doing this after the change over to ethanol 2 seasons ago. Never did it before that. Pour a cold bottle of water over pump and all is good, maybe 5 minutes. Just air cooling takes about 45 minutes to run right again.

[Bill_AirJunky]

My PS205 had a throttle body EFI.... not nearly as good as the EFI these Monsoons have, but still a pressurized, computer controlled system..... and still had vapor lock problems. But the suggestions that others have made about opening the engine cover, cooling off the engine, waiting a while, running the blower a lot, etc.... they worked for me.

The other thing that people have suggested is to run Stabil or Seafoam in your gas regularly, especially if it's gas that has ethanol in it &/or has been stored over the winter.

Frankly your symptoms don't sound exactly like what we experienced. The temps aren't that high, the fact that mine would barely start & run like crap, or wait a bit & it would start & run like there was never a problem. Plus the fact that I have the same boat & have never seen it.... yet. In your case I think I'd start looking at ignition issues, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc.

[shawndoggy]

My PS205 had a throttle body EFI.... not nearly as good as the EFI these Monsoons have, but still a pressurized, computer controlled system..... and still had vapor lock problems. But the suggestions that others have made about opening the engine cover, cooling off the engine, waiting a while, running the blower a lot, etc.... they worked for me.

The other thing that people have suggested is to run Stabil or Seafoam in your gas regularly, especially if it's gas that has ethanol in it &/or has been stored over the winter.

Frankly your symptoms don't sound exactly like what we experienced. The temps aren't that high, the fact that mine would barely start & run like crap, or wait a bit & it would start & run like there was never a problem. Plus the fact that I have the same boat & have never seen it.... yet. In your case I think I'd start looking at ignition issues, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc.

I'm thinking it's a fuel delivery issue. Went ot again today and as expected it started right up at the ramp and after a few short runs. After an extended stop, same issue. Shot some starter fluid down the intake and after a long crank it started. Did another couple runs with key off and it started fine. Intermittent probs are the worst.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Yea, I hear that. Checking the fuel pressure might be a good start...... and check it in each situation, ie; while starting at the ramp, and when it is having hot start problems.

Good luck.

[JPSkier]

Can you describe what it did when it wouldn't start. I'm having vapor lock issues and when hot mine starts then seems to be fuel starved and dies. After sitting 30 minutes with the motor cover open it starts and runs perfect. I'm suspecting I have bad gas - yeah the other kind too. If you have a similar situation see links in post #68 on boat is a dogg.

FYI. I drained my gas tank and put in some new 93 and Stabil and no vapor lock issues today. Hope that was all it was.

[SunriseH2OSkier]

I'm thinking it's a fuel delivery issue. Went ot again today and as expected it started right up at the ramp and after a few short runs. After an extended stop, same issue. Shot some starter fluid down the intake and after a long crank it started. Did another couple runs with key off and it started fine. Intermittent probs are the worst.

Buddy of mine has a '95 SNOB with a fuel injected PCM GT40. Last summer, he started to experience the same kind of thing as you described. I've had to tow him in a couple times. This spring, it became much worse - to the point that the engine wouldn't start at all. Had the local service shop take a look at it on Friday. $400 and a new high pressure fuel pump later, his problem is completely gone now.

[shawndoggy]

Buddy of mine has a '95 SNOB with a fuel injected PCM GT40. Last summer, he started to experience the same kind of thing as you described. I've had to tow him in a couple times. This spring, it became much worse - to the point that the engine wouldn't start at all. Had the local service shop take a look at it on Friday. $400 and a new high pressure fuel pump later, his problem is completely gone now.

Yeah, that's where I'm leaning too. Got back from our weekend trip today and replaced rotor, cap, spark plug wires and plugs.

Needed to be done, I'm sure.

Hooked the boat to the fake a lake and of course it fired right up (really that was more to make sure I'd done the cap/rotor/wires/plugs correctly). Just got back from dropping it off at the local indmar tech. Hopefully will be all fixed up and ready to go by next weekend.

[shawndoggy]

Grrrrrr. Ambiguity prevails.

On the advice of my local tech I installed the indmar vapor lock kit. It's basically a carter low pressure fuel pump and a wiring harness that you install inline, BEFORE the fuel filter. Managed to get it and install it on Friday afternoon. The harness that indmar provides T's off of the fuel pump, so when the main pump runs, so does the low pressure pump. The concept is that the high pressure pump always gets a good supply of cool fuel, thereby preventing vapor lock.

Went out on saturday and we were NOT symptom free, but we did start quickly on all but one occasion. Several times we had no start after a 4-8 second crank. At that point I would cycle key on key off three or four times to get the fuel pumps priming. It started every time but one using that regimen. The one time it didn't start that way was after we'd sat for lunch and the engine had had the opportunity to heatsoak. Cracked the throttle in neutral and cranked for a long time but it finally caught.

Went out today (Bullards.... it was beautiful, if a bit windy and a little sketchy with debris) and after an initial couple of wakeboard runs, had tons of trouble starting. Blower also completely failed. Correlation? Maybe. But I'm pretty disappointed that the secondary fuel pump didn't simply cure things. We did pull the kids on the tube for a long time and ruin a bunch of good water so the day wasn't a complete loss.

I'm really open to any and all suggestions at this point. To summarize what we've done:

new fuel filter

new distributor cap and rotor

new spark plugs

new spark plug wires

indmar low pressure fuel pump

HELP! I just want the boat to start when I turn the key.

[Woodski]

I noticed the plug picture and it appears the plug gap is significant. You might try a little less gap. What is the actual gap on those plugs? Are your fuel lines insulated, if not, try that also.

[Ndawg12]

Grrrrrr. Ambiguity prevails.

On the advice of my local tech I installed the indmar vapor lock kit. It's basically a carter low pressure fuel pump and a wiring harness that you install inline, BEFORE the fuel filter. Managed to get it and install it on Friday afternoon. The harness that indmar provides T's off of the fuel pump, so when the main pump runs, so does the low pressure pump. The concept is that the high pressure pump always gets a good supply of cool fuel, thereby preventing vapor lock.

Went out on saturday and we were NOT symptom free, but we did start quickly on all but one occasion. Several times we had no start after a 4-8 second crank. At that point I would cycle key on key off three or four times to get the fuel pumps priming. It started every time but one using that regimen. The one time it didn't start that way was after we'd sat for lunch and the engine had had the opportunity to heatsoak. Cracked the throttle in neutral and cranked for a long time but it finally caught.

Went out today (Bullards.... it was beautiful, if a bit windy and a little sketchy with debris) and after an initial couple of wakeboard runs, had tons of trouble starting. Blower also completely failed. Correlation? Maybe. But I'm pretty disappointed that the secondary fuel pump didn't simply cure things. We did pull the kids on the tube for a long time and ruin a bunch of good water so the day wasn't a complete loss.

I'm really open to any and all suggestions at this point. To summarize what we've done:

new fuel filter

new distributor cap and rotor

new spark plugs

new spark plug wires

indmar low pressure fuel pump

HELP! I just want the boat to start when I turn the key.

That's probably not going to help your cause around here

I noticed the plug picture and it appears the plug gap is significant. You might try a little less gap. What is the actual gap on those plugs? Are your fuel lines insulated, if not, try that also.

My manual says .060" or 1.5mm

[shawndoggy]

I noticed the plug picture and it appears the plug gap is significant. You might try a little less gap. What is the actual gap on those plugs? Are your fuel lines insulated, if not, try that also.

Thanks woodski. You are right about the gap. Didn't check the gap on the plug in the pic... because I replaced it. As far as the plugs I put in, the auto parts store told me that the plugs were already gapped. Assuming that the gap is too big, isn't the risk of a big gap that it will miss at speed, not that it will fail to spark enough to start? I don't have that issue, but it's probably worth revisiting EVERYTHING at this point.

Thanks for reminding me about the fuel line insulation. Like I said, it's worth trying everything at this point.

[scfdfireman]

My 06 did the same thing as yours has been doing, but fortunately it was under warranty then. The dealer focused on the same fuel related issues as you have been and got the same poor results. Finally they figured out it was the "computer" and changed it out and the problem hasn't resurfaced for a couple of seasons. When I get home, I'll see if I can find the repair slip and see if there's any more info on it.