Anyone use ballast other than bags?

[mellen_mpz]

I talked to a friend of mine (who has been a Malibu tech for 8 years) about possibly adding some ballast bags to supplement my tanks for surfing. He said to find a bunch of 70lb(ish) hunks of lead (or other heavy medium), carpet them and use those instead of bags.

Sounds good to me!

Positives (that I can think of) include:

-A lot less space needed

-no filling/unfilling

-easy/quick to move around for goofy/regular foot surfers

Negatives:

You have to tow all that weight to/from the lake

Does anyone here use anything other than bags for ballast?

[Bobby Light]

I talked to a friend of mine (who has been a Malibu tech for 8 years) about possibly adding some ballast bags to supplement my tanks for surfing. He said to find a bunch of 70lb(ish) hunks of lead (or other heavy medium), carpet them and use those instead of bags.

Sounds good to me!

Positives (that I can think of) include:

-A lot less space needed

-no filling/unfilling

-easy/quick to move around for goofy/regular foot surfers

Negatives:

You have to tow all that weight to/from the lake

Does anyone here use anything other than bags for ballast?

Here are some more negatives you forgot to add:

-Costs way more per pound than ballast bags

-Extra wear and tear on your trailer

-No possible way to add enough lead to your boat for surfing, if you actually do you're nuts

-God forbid you have an issue out on the water and the insurance company finds out you have/had lead on the boat, well go figure

If you just now figured out you need more ballast for surfing you don't know what you've been missing. You'd be better off getting a custom made surf sac from Fly High.

[Bill_AirJunky]

I had about 500 lbs of lead & pig iron in my old PS 205, carpeted like you described. Combined with the 250 - 300 lb locker sack, it had a descent wake, and it was all out of sight. That amount didn't really matter to the trailer at all. We used it for 7 years & never had a problem.

On this boat, which has the 3 stock tanks, I have eight 40 lb Pop bags under the bow seats, mostly the center cushion. If we're all riding behind the windshield, thats where it stays. This summer when I have people in the bow while we ride, I'll move it to the back. And it'll take up minimal storage at all. The trailer doesn't notice 320 lbs of lead at all. Cost me about $70 for the bags. And $80 for the scrap lead from a local tire shop.

The insurance issue 06 mentions would be a drag. And if a guy is haulin around 2000 lbs of it, then he probably deserves it. Be reasonable & live to play another day.

[shawndoggy]

Is there something specific about lead that makes it bad from an insurance perspective? Lead water or feathers, if you have 3000lbs of ballast in your boat, how's it any different to the ins co?

[Jimmypooh]

Is there something specific about lead that makes it bad from an insurance perspective? Lead water or feathers, if you have 3000lbs of ballast in your boat, how's it any different to the ins co?

If you have issues on the water, your boat will sink with lead vs. swamp with water ballast.

[Chia]

Is there something specific about lead that makes it bad from an insurance perspective? Lead water or feathers, if you have 3000lbs of ballast in your boat, how's it any different to the ins co?

a boat should not sink if it fills with water. it will sink with 3000lbs of lead in the lockers, it won't sink with 3000lbs of water in the locker.

the water is neutral ballast.

[Skiline00]

Is there something specific about lead that makes it bad from an insurance perspective? Lead water or feathers, if you have 3000lbs of ballast in your boat, how's it any different to the ins co?

I'm pretty sure its because water is neutrally buoyant. If you swamp your boat with water ballast in it, theoretically it shouldn't go to the bottom.. A couple thousand pounds of lead however, will bring your boat to the bottom like that cinder block tied to my..... Well nevermind, you get the point.

*Edit* Guess maybe I need to type faster..

Edited May 28, 2010 by Skiline00

[msuwaterski]

I like to use strippers and large coolers full of beer as extra ballast. In the event of an on water incident the coolers will float and most strippers come with built in PFD's so you don't need to worry about them

All kidding aside, the guy I ride with uses 400lbs of lead shot as his ballast (several bags wrapped in duck tape). It is nice because the bags can be easily moved around the boat and fit under any seat. 4-500lbs of lead won't cause your boat to sink if you get swamped, but I wouldn’t be comfortable with more than that.

[Chia]

I like to use strippers and large coolers full of beer as extra ballast. In the event of an on water incident the coolers will float and most strippers come with built in PFD's so you don't need to worry about them

All kidding aside, the guy I ride with uses 400lbs of lead shot as his ballast (several bags wrapped in duck tape). It is nice because the bags can be easily moved around the boat and fit under any seat. 4-500lbs of lead won't cause your boat to sink if you get swamped, but I wouldn’t be comfortable with more than that.

is that a professional opinion that we can take to court? the pictures i have seen of boats full of water seem to have the top of the boat just at the level of the lake. I doubt it would take much to more to fully submerge the boat. YMMV

this is a 23'er

[TrickyNicky]

is that a professional opinion that we can take to court? the pictures i have seen of boats full of water seem to have the top of the boat just at the level of the lake. I doubt it would take much to more to fully submerge the boat. YMMV

this is a 23'er

I don't have a professional opinion either but I don't think 4-500lbs would sink the boat either. The baot already weights 4000lbs and 500lbs could be two big guys exhaling. Like I said not professional and don't take me to court for your sunken boat but thats my $0.02

[Chia]

I don't have a professional opinion either but I don't think 4-500lbs would sink the boat either. The baot already weights 4000lbs and 500lbs could be two big guys exhaling. Like I said not professional and don't take me to court for your sunken boat but thats my $0.02

maybe, but if you were to add what would equal about 10 car batteries to either of those boats pictured, do you think they would remain above water or would they be checking out davy jones locker.

The weight of the boat is irrelevant, what is important is the amount of flotation the manufacturer has included in the construction.

[shawndoggy]

maybe, but if you were to add what would equal about 10 car batteries to either of those boats pictured, do you think they would remain above water or would they be checking out davy jones locker.

The weight of the boat is irrelevant, what is important is the amount of flotation the manufacturer has included in the construction.

You don't think those boats would be totalled by the ins co? If they weren't, would you want it back?

[TrickyNicky]

maybe, but if you were to add what would equal about 10 car batteries to either of those boats pictured, do you think they would remain above water or would they be checking out davy jones locker.

The weight of the boat is irrelevant, what is important is the amount of flotation the manufacturer has included in the construction.

Thje weight of the boat is relevant because the company would give enough flotation to support the boat. By adding 500lbs to one of those boats may be a 20% increase in weight. For one of our boats it's closer to 10% more weight That 10% range of difference is likely significant in the manufacturers saftey factor when giving the boat flotation.

I'm sure you've swamped a canoe before. Thay all look like that first boat. I've been in some that can take my weight and some that sink. Think of the difference between the buoyancy of a canoe vs our malibus

[Bobby Light]

You don't think those boats would be totalled by the ins co? If they weren't, would you want it back?

Depends, but if they fix it and give it back to you I'd guess you really don't have a choice unless you don't owe anything on it and feel like walking away for it.

The guy that bought my last boat ran it up on an underwater rock bed and wiped all the running gear off the bottom of the boat and puched a few holes. The boat sunk in about 4' of water. The water was up to the seats on the interior from what I understand. Insurance fixed the boat and gave it back to him.

[Bill_AirJunky]

If you have issues on the water, your boat will sink with lead vs. swamp with water ballast.

I don't care if the boat sinks to just below the surface or 100' deep, it's sunk, period. Recovery may be different. But the end result is the same.

And 400 - 500 lbs of ANYTHING does not exceed the limitations of the boat, legally or realistically.

Granted 500 lbs of lead & 10 of your biggest beer drinkin buddies is over the limit. But so is 3000 lbs of water ballast.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Bill_AirJunky

[Wakeboarddude]

This is your boat... This is your boat on lead.

[board brained]

hey I have a suggestion......when the boat starts to sink either hit the switch to empty the sacs or throw the lead overboard.........

sorry

Edited May 28, 2010 by board brained

[msuwaterski]

hey I have a suggestion......when the boat starts to sink either hit the switch to empty the sacs or throw the lead overboard.........

sorry

Actually, flipping the switch on the fat sack pump to bail the water out of the boat is a better idea. We had an incident on Lake Cumberland a few years ago where the fat sack pump actually kept the boat from sinking. Long story short, the intake hose between the impeller and the enigine busted while they (friends on ski boat, I was on houseboat) were in the middle of the lake. Not having ANY idea why they were starting to take on so much water they sped up to get to the shore, which only cause them to take on water faster. It only took about a minute before they determined that they were going down, so they turned off the engine and prepared to abandon ship. By this time the water was up to the sunpad on the back ski locker (Ski Sanger). They noticed that once the engine was off they stopped taking on water, so quick thinking told them to plug in the fat sack pump and bail the boat out. It worked.

They were pretty shaken up by the incident! Fortunately it was the last day of the trip so we did not miss out on much riding and skiing. The boat ended up needing all new cooling hoses, new starter, tranny fluid change, and several hours in the sun to dry out!

[Ndawg12]

Actually, flipping the switch on the fat sack pump to bail the water out of the boat is a better idea. We had an incident on Lake Cumberland a few years ago where the fat sack pump actually kept the boat from sinking. Long story short, the intake hose between the impeller and the enigine busted while they (friends on ski boat, I was on houseboat) were in the middle of the lake. Not having ANY idea why they were starting to take on so much water they sped up to get to the shore, which only cause them to take on water faster. It only took about a minute before they determined that they were going down, so they turned off the engine and prepared to abandon ship. By this time the water was up to the sunpad on the back ski locker (Ski Sanger). They noticed that once the engine was off they stopped taking on water, so quick thinking told them to plug in the fat sack pump and bail the boat out. It worked.

They were pretty shaken up by the incident! Fortunately it was the last day of the trip so we did not miss out on much riding and skiing. The boat ended up needing all new cooling hoses, new starter, tranny fluid change, and several hours in the sun to dry out!

Yeah, that would scare $hit outta yuh, did they think to shut the ball valve?

[msuwaterski]

Yeah, that would scare $hit outta yuh, did they think to shut the ball valve?

It wasn't an automatic ballast failure, it was the cooling line for the engine that popped. So no, there was no ball valve too shut off.

[mellen_mpz]

thanks for the input guys. I'm thinkin I might do some lead/steel weight and maybe some ballast bags. We had about 9 people on my buddies 21' supra last summer and the wake was awesome. It was then I realized I need more weight!

Edited May 31, 2010 by mellen_mpz

[Bill_AirJunky]

Actually, flipping the switch on the fat sack pump to bail the water out of the boat is a better idea. We had an incident on Lake Cumberland a few years ago where the fat sack pump actually kept the boat from sinking. Long story short, the intake hose between the impeller and the enigine busted while they (friends on ski boat, I was on houseboat) were in the middle of the lake. Not having ANY idea why they were starting to take on so much water they sped up to get to the shore, which only cause them to take on water faster. It only took about a minute before they determined that they were going down, so they turned off the engine and prepared to abandon ship. By this time the water was up to the sunpad on the back ski locker (Ski Sanger). They noticed that once the engine was off they stopped taking on water, so quick thinking told them to plug in the fat sack pump and bail the boat out. It worked.

They were pretty shaken up by the incident! Fortunately it was the last day of the trip so we did not miss out on much riding and skiing. The boat ended up needing all new cooling hoses, new starter, tranny fluid change, and several hours in the sun to dry out!

Crazy. Our boats now do have a ball valve on that intake hose. We just used it on an 08 Vride to change the impeller while sitting on the lake.

A few years ago we were riding on the Pitt River near Vancouver BC & had a similar problem. The alternator fan ate a hole in the intake hose on a friends older boat.... no valve to close in this case. We figured out the problem pretty early but had problems getting it fixed, mainly because the Pitt has a pretty swift current. We had a couple of situations where we had a barge coming at us, and then where we were getting swept under a bridge, both times we had to start the boat & move in a hurry. We decided to drop the anchor at one point, which was interesting too with the anchor line zinging thru our hands while we tried to hold the boat back against the current. In the end we had enough hose to cut off the bad section & reconnect it. Still got the heart rate going a few times.

Good luck on the ballast Mellen. Let us know what you decide to do. There are plenty of guys on WW who melt down scrap lead & make bricks, or fill PVC or Tupperware containers with scrap lead, steel shot, sand, or whatever. Not to mention the various creative ways to fill ballast bags.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Bill_AirJunky

[NvBoarder]

I have 40lb pop bags in my boat in various locations. Roughly 500 lbs worth, yes it adds weight while towing but I have a diesel and don't really notice it. As far as sinking goes I tend not to worry about it. With out the lead the boat will still partially float, I think, but it's still going to be a nightmare for you. With lead the boat might sink even deeper, still going to be a nightmare. Avoid at all cost putting yourself in that position and go enjoy boat. A few issues that I have noticed, my vlx likes front weight so I have acouple extra hundred pounds up front and when I load the boat it makes it a little more diffucult because the bow sits a little lower. I have also found that if you have acouple people that sit up front you may not want to fill the front ballast up all the way because you might take on water when slowing to pick up the rider. What ever you end up doing spread it out evenly. If the boat has a nice wake with no ballast the lead is in a good position, If you notice that front of the boat is bouncing you might have to much weight up front.

[Chia]

I don't care if the boat sinks to just below the surface or 100' deep, it's sunk, period. Recovery may be different. But the end result is the same.

And 400 - 500 lbs of ANYTHING does not exceed the limitations of the boat, legally or realistically.

Granted 500 lbs of lead & 10 of your biggest beer drinkin buddies is over the limit. But so is 3000 lbs of water ballast.

my concern was more about whether the insurance company would care that you had more weight in the boat at time of sinking than the USCG label allows (500# lead, a few people and you are over the 1250 or so lbs). I don't think water ballast counts towards that weight as it will not sink the boat.

[Bill_AirJunky]

I don't think water ballast counts towards that weight as it will not sink the boat.

Not so. It does count. And it can sink your boat..... probably to just below the surface & thats it.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Bill_AirJunky