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JeffS

Rudder Repair - Malibu Skier 195 Euro F3

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JeffS

Just posting info as I get projects done and loading with search words so the topics get found when others search for the information.

The rudder on the old Malibu Euro F3 Skier 195's and Mystere 205's was made by CW (not WC). They are no longer in business and I had not luck finding any spare parts from anyone anywhere.

The symptom is - the rudder wobbles. It often binds making it hard to turn the wheel. Sometimes it's not hard to turn, but it's obvious something is wrong because a lot of water comes in through the rudder stuffing box. Sometimes both.

The sleeve that carries the 'O' rings that seal the lake out and the boat in, is made of plastic and wears badly over time. Mine even cracked.

It is possible to remove the rudder, and put in new o-rings. It will solve a lot of the problems, often make steering easier, and slow down the lake getting in the boat. Shop for high quality o-rings at a shop that caries parts for hydraulics.

If you want to fix it fix it...like...a 100% fix no short cuts, just as good as a brand new rudder, the fix follows with pictures below. Having brass replacement parts made to replace the red plastic sleeve cost $160 in spring 2010. PM me and I'll hook you up with the machine shop that did the work. He saved the settings on the CNC lathe and can reproduce this part very easily now.

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JeffS

Remove the rudder

The 89 - 93 Euro F3 195 Skiers have a rudder made by CW (not WC Rudder)

Many owners I've heard from, say their rudder binds and is very hard to turn when prop speed is high. I had this as well. To fix the problem, the fuel tank DOES NOT need to be removed.

Remove the whole rudder. I needed 2 9/16th box wrenches, a 9/16th socket wrench, a BIG slot screw driver and a hammer.

1. Remove the steering cable (one bolt and nut).

2. Remove the tiller bolt. Turn the rudder to convenient position (it will spin freely with the steering cable off). Convenient means you can get a wrench on either side of the bolt that goes through the tiller.

3. Remove the Tiller. Note - once you remove the tiller, the rudder will drop out the bottom. Make certain you have a rudder catcher outside the boat. Note the picture of the tiller at the top of this post. It has a slot cut in the back - put your big screwdriver in that slot, and top it a couple times with the hammer. This will spread the round opening just enough to slide it off the top post of the rudder. Remember to warn your rudder catcher.

4. Remove the rudder out the bottom of the boat. No rocket science here - it just slides out.

5. Remove the rudder stuffing box. 4 slot screw-head bolts and 4 nuts. May require a helper outside the boat. Use a 9/16th deep socket to remove the nuts from inside the boat. Push the bolts out through the bottom.

Once the 4 nuts and bolts are out, push and rock the stuffing box from inside the boat, down through the bottom and out. This takes some effort as the sealant they used is also adhesive.

Use a scraping razor to clean the adhesive from the bottom of the boat.

6. Remove the red sleeve from the metal stuffing box.

Edited by JeffS

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JeffS

Here is the rudder stuffing box when it first comes out of the boat.

rudderstuffingbox-old3.jpg

All of the parts once removed.

RudderRepair-Old2.jpg

I tried going the route of putting in new o-rings and refreshing the worn out plastic sleeve. It lasted a month or so, and then started leaking tremendously. Turns out pressure of the new o-rings on the old plastic put cracks in the plastic sleeve.

Here is the 100% fix. Have the plastic sleeves made out of brass.

brasspackingsleeves5(800x530).jpg

brasspackingsleeves2(800x530).jpg

brasspackingsleeves3(800x530).jpg

brasspackingsleeves4(800x530).jpg

Also worth noting - I had zirk grease fittings tapped into the rudder box inside the boat so that with the new setup, I could easily add grease. A nice little feature and I highly recommend.

I put it all back together, and though it's not yet been in the water, I am amazed at how nice everything fit together. Tolerances were so tight and so proper - awesome machinist skills that's for sure.

Total cost was $160. The brass plugs cost $45, just for the raw material. The labor was $115. I bought the o-rings.

The alternative to this is to buy a new rudder. That's the only other choice. A new replacement rudder is $400 - $500 last I looked.

Cheers.

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martinarcher

Nice work. I have the same problem and symptoms on my 88' (leaky, play, hard to turn under speed, but free when floating). It has a CW rudder as well, but is quite a bit different. No O-rings or plastic sleeve. Instead it is like the stuffing box for the driveshaft. I pulled it all apart last fall and am working at polishign everything up and putting it back together. The rudder shaft was bent where it exits the hull so it's at the machine shop at work getting straightened. Should be done this weeks. I ordered some 5/16" stuffing rope...

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|311|53222|292328&id=685505

I'm hoping I get similar results once I get mine back together. Rockon.gif

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Arctic Slalom

nice write up!

this is the exact issue i have with my 89 sunsetter.

thanks!

CR

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rugger

Thanks for the write up. Haven't had the problem yet, but it may come down the road. Love seeing support for the older bus on this site.

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Buckshot714

Great write up!! I have a 90 Malibu eruo f3 with the same setup and the same problem. I stopped by the local boat shop yesterday to try to resolve the issue. He actually called Malibu inquiring about the problem and they told him that the parts are not available, and the only solution to the problem was to buy a whole new rudder assembly for the tune of 500 and change. Not really what I wanted to hear. He said to take it apart and bring it down to him and possibly he could match up some o-rings to it.

This is the exact fix I need to get the rudder working right and stop leaking

I would greatly appreciate a contact number for the machine shop you used?

And I really appreciate you taking the time to write out this fix and post pics, you've really saved me a huge headache!!

Thanks Much

Eric

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martinarcher

werule.gif

I did a write up on the 88 and earlier rudder rebuilds in the how-to section. I'm still waiting for an admin to approve it. Whistling.gif

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JasonK

On my 1990 Bu I had a 'Marine Hardware Mfg.' rudder and housing with a flax packing nut. My rudder housing must have been a bad casting (severly pitted) and cracked in half at the age of 15 years. My symptoms started after we started weighing the boat down and surfing. It was all of a sudden abnormally hard to turn the wheel. I bought a new rudder housing from Marine Hardware that wasn't exact, but pretty close. I took it to a machine shop and had it worked to match my old housing. Total of $300 i think.

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Buckshot714

Anybody get a contact number for this machine shop?? I pm'd Jeffs a couple weeks ago but haven't heard back from him. I'm egar to get this issue resolved before the summer season gets here

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92skier

So, My steering seems fine until I am under a load, like doing a turn around at 15 mph to pick up a skier or turning during a skier. Do you guys thing it is my cable needing replaced or they rudder assembly is going bad? I have no leaks that I am aware of from the rudder. Also, has anyone experienced the tiller arm rubbing the exhaust hose that runs out the back of the boat? The arm has worn a significant whole in all of the outer rubber part of the hose and I am afraid it is going to start leaking, but if I put a new hose on, it is going to put the arm in a bind when turning left. Any insight would be appreciated. Looking at this thread makes me think my cable may be ok. It turns easily when just sitting and on the trailer I can turn the rudder from left to right by hand no problems. Oh yea, its a 92' skier.

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martinarcher

So, My steering seems fine until I am under a load, like doing a turn around at 15 mph to pick up a skier or turning during a skier. Do you guys thing it is my cable needing replaced or they rudder assembly is going bad? I have no leaks that I am aware of from the rudder. Also, has anyone experienced the tiller arm rubbing the exhaust hose that runs out the back of the boat? The arm has worn a significant whole in all of the outer rubber part of the hose and I am afraid it is going to start leaking, but if I put a new hose on, it is going to put the arm in a bind when turning left. Any insight would be appreciated. Looking at this thread makes me think my cable may be ok. It turns easily when just sitting and on the trailer I can turn the rudder from left to right by hand no problems. Oh yea, its a 92' skier.

Cable is fine. Rudder shaft is probably a bit bent. Very common in the older Bus with years of use. You can pull the rudder out, take it to a machine shop and they will straighted it out for you. Repack the gland when putting it back together.

I upgraded to 4" exhaust and you can see my "long tiller" solution in post #31 of this thread.

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92skier

Cable is fine. Rudder shaft is probably a bit bent. Very common in the older Bus with years of use. You can pull the rudder out, take it to a machine shop and they will straighted it out for you. Repack the gland when putting it back together.

I upgraded to 4" exhaust and you can see my "long tiller" solution in post #31 of this thread.

Thanks for the input.

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JasonK

I added a wood block between my exhaust hoses to keep them far enough apart so that the tiller doesn't hit.

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92skier

I added a wood block between my exhaust hoses to keep them far enough apart so that the tiller doesn't hit.

Might give this a try before I go to cutting.

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JeffS

Hey there everyone. I pm'd the info to those who asked for it with apologies for the information being so slow to get there. I'm not on the forum much anymore. I really don't know why I never just put it on the thread in the first place. Should have. Here it is forever and ever - those who end up here and need to do this fix, no more wondering where the heck I am and if I ever look on the forum anymore.

The shop is Quality Tool & Die

9700 West National Avenue

Milwaukee, WI 53227-2238

(414) 541-6131

Ask for the owner - Ron Loos.

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CliffB

By the way, these parts should be machined out of silicon bronze.......NOT regular bronze or brass. Brass corrodes quite easily, and if it's a close fit between the rudder post and the slip fit bearing then you risk the rudder seizing in the bearing. Bronze is better, but silicon bronze is very corrosion resistant and strong with good wear properties for a marine bearing application.

Edited by CliffB

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Levi900RR

Digging this baby back up. I'm about to call Ron and get some bushings made up for my Skier. Anyone know if I need to specify silicon bronze?

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Michigan boarder

So, what do you do with a shaft that has some wear on it? I don't have a micrometer, but I can feel some significant wear on the bottom of my rudder shaft, about a half in up from the top of the rudder. Can a machine shop fix that or do I need a new rudder? Or should I just swap out the parts listed on this thread first and see how it feels?

post-8942-0-47798700-1363188463_thumb.jp

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Levi900RR

I'm not sure how a machine show would fix that without removing some material and making the entire shaft slightly smaller, you could then have some bushings custom made for the new shaft size.

I've been on the dang phone all day and haven't had time to call the shop. I'll give it another try tomorrow.

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Michigan boarder

Update - I talked with Ron and the current rate is about $300 for this. So I'm going to hold off until my steering is no longer tolerable and then buy a new assembly for $450.

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MalibuUSMC

I was on the fence, but seeing that price i just fell off lol

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Randy-Malibu

I just bought the rudder bushings From Ron Loos and the total cost shipped to my door with "seal s" was $210. It was a great improvement in a failed design there is no way you could ever make that bushing out of plastic and get it to work correctly. The quality of the bushing and the fit were incredible bet its better than any new boat. I added the grease zerk to let me grease them too. I can't believe the improvement in steering. We ski buoys 3 days a week and this really made it ease to keep it straight and tracking true. Ron Loos was very responsive and got my shipment out immediately called him on Monday at the lake testing on Friday.

Edited by Randy-Malibu

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Woodski

@Randy: what specifically are the differences in the components you purchased? Also, who is Ron Loos and how to contact that source? Curious to see what the upgrade is. Thanks.

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Malibu Jordy

@woodski-see page 1 of this thread to answer all your questions

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