Automated ballast design

[zzbutler]

I have been saying for the past two years that I was going to order some Enzo style custom sacs that would fully utilize the lockers on my 247 and plumb them in. Well, I don't have the money for the custom sacs but I am determined to get the plumbing done anyway.

There has been a lot of discussion lately about utilizing the existing pumps and what pumps are better and such. Bakes put together a nice diagram and detail about how they add ballast using the existing pumps and a diverter valve. There is a thread with a lot of info here also. However, there are still some details that I need to work out.

Fill Pumps - I have decided to go with the Tsunami 1200 pumps. I will use 3/4" thru hull fittings just like the factory ones, a ball valve, and the W747 to adapt to the 1 1/8 straight thread inlet of the pump. The outlet of pump will connect to 1" hose that I will attempt to stretch over the 1 1/8" connection on the pump and then use the 1" W743/746 Quick Release connectors on the sac.

Drain Pumps - Also the 1200's, they will attach to the sacs with the W734 Quick Twist Connect fitting like you normally use with a portable setup. I know some people think this may not be secure but it is really the best way to do it with minimal fittings and flow loss, while still giving me the ability to take the sacs out. If anything, I may just tape the connection to make sure it doesn't accidentally untwist. The outlet of the pump will be 1" hose like on the fill pumps.

Vent/Overflow - This will be 3/4" and will use the W736/742 Quick Release connectors on the sac and probably tee into an existing factory 3/4" line to the thru hulls.

Here are the remaining questions/issues:

1. Hose - what kind of hose and where to get it - cheap. I would prefer a hose type that is similar to the oem hose on the factory tanks. I am also concerned about getting the 1" hose over the 1 1/8" connections.

2. Thru-hull fittings for the discharges - I am good with using a wye for the overflow line to tie into an existing since it's 3/4. However, I haven't figured out how to handle the 1" drain lines. Should I put in new 1" thru-hull fittings? They won't match the 3/4 ones. Should I try to adapt the 1" line down to a 3/4" wye? That won't look good and could restrict the flow and cost me a little more time on the drain time, which is actually the most important to me.

3. Siphon/vent issues - lots of discussion but no clear answer on what is needed in regards to a loop in the hose or the expensive vented loops. Unless someone has done a three hose sac setup like this without manual valves or check valves, and can chime in here with the answer, I am going to start without loops or anything and leave enough hose to change it.

4. Electrical/switches - I have 2 "ACC" switches on the left side of my console. One is wired and it lights up, but I cant see that it does anything. I think it might have originally been for the shower or something but then they changed it to the back and left the wiring in place. Not a big deal. Does anyone know the best place to buy bulk wire?

I have already ordered the Fly High stuff on the group buy. I just need to get thru-hull's, ball valves, hose, and wire.

[Tao of Wake]

1. Hose - what kind of hose and where to get it - cheap. I would prefer a hose type that is similar to the oem hose on the factory tanks. I am also concerned about getting the 1" hose over the 1 1/8" connections.

I purchased 1" PVC hose from here. It's not exactly the same as the stock hose, but it's pretty close. And it's inexpensive, won't kink and won't collapse. I could only find the stock hose in 3/4". If you search for marine water hose (like the 1-1/4" raw water intake), the 1" is over $3/ft!

2. Thru-hull fittings for the discharges - I am good with using a wye for the overflow line to tie into an existing since it's 3/4. However, I haven't figured out how to handle the 1" drain lines. Should I put in new 1" thru-hull fittings? They won't match the 3/4 ones. Should I try to adapt the 1" line down to a 3/4" wye? That won't look good and could restrict the flow and cost me a little more time on the drain time, which is actually the most important to me.

I debated about this for quite some time and decided to just put in new 1" thru hulls. I will line each up with the existing ones so that the center is vertically centered with the others. I purchased stainless steel just like the stock ones, so I think it will look just fine. Like you, I didn't want to restrict the flow. BTW, I found these 1" barbed wye adapters.

If you can wait until after April 19th, I should have pictures. I am installing my new system that weekend.

3. Siphon/vent issues - lots of discussion but no clear answer on what is needed in regards to a loop in the hose or the expensive vented loops. Unless someone has done a three hose sac setup like this without manual valves or check valves, and can chime in here with the answer, I am going to start without loops or anything and leave enough hose to change it.

I am going with skicrave's advice and just put a 10" loop in the line. I am going to put the wye before the loop to tie in the drain (drain & vent into the same thru hull).

4. Electrical/switches - I have 2 "ACC" switches on the left side of my console. One is wired and it lights up, but I cant see that it does anything. I think it might have originally been for the shower or something but then they changed it to the back and left the wiring in place. Not a big deal. Does anyone know the best place to buy bulk wire?

I have already ordered the Fly High stuff on the group buy. I just need to get thru-hull's, ball valves, hose, and wire.

I have two ACC switches on the right side of the dash and one on the left. The 2 on the right are already wired to the fuse panel, so I will use these for the 2 new drain pumps. Curiously, the one one the left is not wired to the panel. I am not going to use it, but I thought it strange that they didn't wire it up.

I found this wire on eBay. This was the cheapest 16/2 marine wire I could find. I just received it yesterday. The seller has a bunch of different lengths.

[zzbutler]

Where did you get your 1" thru-hulls?

[winddawg]

Where did you get your 1" thru-hulls?

I have gotten mine from West Marine, while not the cheapest they will have the heavy duty bronze type you are looking for for under the hull and the heavy stainless/chrome for the discharge on the side of the boat. WM also carries the anti-siphon loop that is used on the hard tanks that you will also need for the sac's. I do not think just "looping" the hose will break the siphon effect because air needs to be introduced into the hose at the top of the loop to stop the water from flowing. You most likely have these on your boat in the compartment in front of the observer's seat given the model year. I retrofitted mine and it was a service bulletin from MB which I can give you a copy of if you are interested.

-Dave

[Tao of Wake]

Where did you get your 1" thru-hulls?

First Choice Marine

[skicrave]

I'll throw my 2 cents in to the mix, ignore it if you want.

The outlet of pump will connect to 1" hose that I will attempt to stretch over the 1 1/8" connection on the pump...

Depending on what hose you use, that may be very difficult to do. You'll definitely need a heat gun, and even then, all bets are off if it's a reinforced hose. I would probably be more inclined to use 1 1/8" ID hose and seal it around the 1" thru-hull.

Drain Pumps - Also the 1200's, they will attach to the sacs with the W734 Quick Twist Connect fitting like you normally use with a portable setup.

If you decide to go this route (which I don't recommend), you'll want to make sure that when your pumps are connected, the drain hose extends straight out to the side, and rests on the floor of the boat near the sac. Otherwise, no matter what you do, the jostling from driving over wakes will turn the quick connect enough for the pump to come out and you won't know it until all of the water is in the back of he boat.

1. Hose - what kind of hose and where to get it - cheap. I would prefer a hose type that is similar to the oem hose on the factory tanks. I am also concerned about getting the 1" hose over the 1 1/8" connections.

We sell the same hose the factory uses, contact us if you're interested.

2. Thru-hull fittings for the discharges - I am good with using a wye for the overflow line to tie into an existing since it's 3/4. However, I haven't figured out how to handle the 1" drain lines. Should I put in new 1" thru-hull fittings? They won't match the 3/4 ones. Should I try to adapt the 1" line down to a 3/4" wye? That won't look good and could restrict the flow and cost me a little more time on the drain time, which is actually the most important to me.

I would probably install 1" thru-hulls centered with the factory fittings (as suggested above).

3. Siphon/vent issues - lots of discussion but no clear answer on what is needed in regards to a loop in the hose or the expensive vented loops. Unless someone has done a three hose sac setup like this without manual valves or check valves, and can chime in here with the answer, I am going to start without loops or anything and leave enough hose to change it.

A large enough loop in the hose will typically fix or reduce siphoning problems to the point where they're negligible. I would start with that, if you're still having problems you can install something else, but keep in mind that your solution will need to match the hose you use.

4. Electrical/switches - I have 2 "ACC" switches on the left side of my console. One is wired and it lights up, but I cant see that it does anything. I think it might have originally been for the shower or something but then they changed it to the back and left the wiring in place. Not a big deal. Does anyone know the best place to buy bulk wire?

You won't be able to use any of the ACC switches Malibu put in the boat. They are Single Pole Single Throw, so they'll only work for on/off devices (like the blower, docking lights or bilge pump for example). What you need is a Dual Pole Dual Throw switch which will allow you to hook up your fill and drain pumps for each bag to one single switch. We sell the same Malibu OEM Style Switch, or you can get it from your dealer.

[Tao of Wake]

The outlet of pump will connect to 1" hose that I will attempt to stretch over the 1 1/8" connection on the pump...

Depending on what hose you use, that may be very difficult to do. You'll definitely need a heat gun, and even then, all bets are off if it's a reinforced hose. I would probably be more inclined to use 1 1/8" ID hose and seal it around the 1" thru-hull.

Using the tubing that I mention above, I was able to stretch it over a 1-1/8" barb connection (the Attwood 3902 adapter - see picture below).

I haven't received my Attwood Tsunami 1200GPH pumps, yet. Does anyone know if the above adapter works for both the outlet & inlet ports of the pump? It's not clear to me. The Attwood documentation seems to indicate that the outlet is a 1-3/8" threads whereas the inlet is 1-1/8" threads, yet it says that the 3902 adapter works for both (see the Accessories table on page 2 of the pdf).

[zzbutler]

It will work. I went and got one of my 1200 portable setups the other day and took it apart to check things out. The 90 on the discharge also fit the intake.

However, I was concerned about the hose because I went to West Marine yesterday and I could not get a 1 1/8 fitting to come even close to working with any 1" hose they had.

[Tao of Wake]

It will work. I went and got one of my 1200 portable setups the other day and took it apart to check things out. The 90 on the discharge also fit the intake.

However, I was concerned about the hose because I went to West Marine yesterday and I could not get a 1 1/8 fitting to come even close to working with any 1" hose they had.

Thanks for that info. This will make my setup even easier. I was going to use a short piece of 1-1/8" hose to a reducing adapter (1-1/8" barb to 1" barb). Now I can just connect the 1" hose directly to the 3902 adapter for both the inlet & outlet of the drain pump.

I really think this hose that I bought will work well. It won't kink or collapse, and I can get it to fit the 1-1/8" adapter (had to heat up the hose with a heat gun).

[Tao of Wake]

I've updated my design with some build photos, including the tubing stretched over the 1-1/8" fitting.

[Beau]

Might want to look at this fitting.

http://www.marineeast.com/a_sch/sch_det.as...5&pid=05_09

[surferbobo]

sorry for the duplicate posting but I think this can help everyone.

I think I figured out how to make all these add on bags fully automated.

I have a 08 VLX and we are going to be setting up a surf school. It has been driving me crazy that you spend 70 grand for a boat then have to do all these modifications. Anyways, I spend 4 fours yesterday reading all the threads and got more crazy. I love the automated preset system now. You just program in the setting and everything is taken care. Hit home and everything drains and more important stops when finished. I had a 99 VLX and pumped in large hard tanks, valves and switches - it worked but had to turn valves and switches. I paid 70 grand for the new VLX and did not want to do this again.

Soooooo, last night i woke up in the middle of the night still crazy - I want a fully automated system!!!!!. Then I figured it out.

I will buy 4 1200 GPH pumps. Drill two holes in the hull for pick up (I got over drilling in the new boat last time) and two in the side for drainage. Pump these as others have recommended. I will then wire the pumps to the similar stock pumps. Now for the great idea that no one else has mentioned. I will reduce the input to the stock pumps by turning the shut off valve. The idea is that I would program in left surf as full. This would turn on the stock tank left pump and the bag left pump (wired to stock pump). Then both the tank and bag would fill at the same time but because I have restricted the flow to the stock pump it will take longer than usual. The idea is to find the right about of restriction so that the tank is full at the same time as the bag then the system will switch off both pumps. Voila! A shut off valve would have to be added to the stock drain pump to restrict the flow so both the bag and tank finish draining at the same time and shut off the pumps.

The big question is restricting the flow to the pumps going to be a problem?

This all assumes that you can have the weighted bag on a half full hard tank. Someone in another thread said that the hard tanks can hold the weight of a full bag.

The other problem I had was what to do when you want to just go wakeboarding and only want the hard tanks full (the pumps are wired together and would start filling the bags too). After a half hour of thinking - another great idea! - you could set the wakeboarding preset to the low setting and this should fill the tank and the bag enough to be the same weight as a full hard tank.

I assume that if everything works as planned I should never have to open the back hatches, turn extra switches and valves. It should be exactly as stock - using the presets for everything.

What do you think? Should I get more sleep?