Zero Off

[Toby]

As many on here (especially skiers) will be well aware, PP is GONE for 09. Malibu was the slowest of the big three to warm to ZO and now has had it slammed down its throat with very little to say about it. ill say it once again. this whole situation has been a DISGRACE. i have absolutely nothing against the system itself, im sure ill like the pull and look forward skiing it this summer.

Im sure it means nothing but ZO is not listed as an option on the ispec ATM. so whats the latest on where things are at? anyone seen/ had any experiences in an 09 with ZO yet?

[skisix@38]

While ZO is the tournament option going forward for speed control, PPSG didn't do Malibu any favors last year. PPSG took some set up steps that most boats didn't get even until regional tourney's.

I've not been a big fan of ZO all summer as I am convinced that system pours too much gas onto the skiers, my ski club has an 08 196 w/ZO. The new revision X program out there is much better then any of the previous versions, I've been skiing the Rev X version for about three weeks now and I can feel that it's much closer to the pull the PP Classic gave and possibly a little better then that.

The chief complaint for most skiers is that they aren't going to go buy a new boat just to get to practice behind the new speed control. I agree with that and I'm in the same position- no way I'm going to buy a new RLXi when the one I have is paid for, looks better and skis better. Now, with the Rev X the pulls are closer together with ZO and PPC. PPSG is developing a new version of their program as well and should be out early this winter, they are supposed to be developing a program that feels more like ZO.

Last weekend I went to a different lake and tried a different ski with rubber boots, after skiing shells for a month, and I skied behind my boat with PPC in it. The pull from my boat never felt any different to me than what I have been getting from my ski clubs 08 196 with ZO from the Rev X program. That's very good news for me!

Lastly, while ZO may no tbe what everyone is used to or may not be the best pull ever but, it is the same exact pull for every skier that rides behind it. That's good to know when I'm in a tourney that all the other skiers in my division are getting the same thing I get. The rest is up to us skiers.

[Toby]

well put ski6. havnt heard a negative thing about revX yet from those who were hating the pull.

I should have stated that my only beef with ZO is the dbw issue. coming fresh into a sport, buying out the competition and making 70%+ of ski boats useless as training boats is hardly a good way to introduce yourself to a sport and help it grow.

[Addictedto6]

skisix - I've noticed you mention the PPSG setups a couple of times now. Do you have any recommended setups for it? We have 1 boat at the pond w/ SG.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Addictedto6

[skisix@38]

well put ski6. havnt heard a negative thing about revX yet from those who were hating the pull.

I should have stated that my only beef with ZO is the dbw issue. coming fresh into a sport, buying out the competition and making 70%+ of ski boats useless as training boats is hardly a good way to introduce yourself to a sport and help it grow.

I woudln't categorize myself as a ZO historian but, I understand that they are involved now because they do the computers for the boats, so they do make a very logical progression in to controling speed. I think they are new into the sport of tournament skiing but not new to controlling engines, which is truly speed control. The rest of the mess is really more to do with the committees at USAWaterski. I think they could have done a much better job at making everyone's entry to ZO a little less abrupt. I think that the two companies, PP and ZO are somewhat coodinating their efforts and we skiers will get the payoff in terms of a more smooth pull.

[skisix@38]

skisix - I've noticed you mention on the PSSG setups a couple of times now. Do you have any recommended setups for it? We have 1 boat at the pond w/ SG.

I don't use PPSG, only been a victim so far... That said I have read a lot and had numerous discussions on the topic and so:

PPSG isn't anywhere near as easy to set up as ZO, once the "map" has been established for the course you are running you will need to finish the SG set up by pulling skiers through the course to establish the final parameters like Pre-gate, 1 ball and mid course values that go into a table the SG uses for feedback on speed. If these values aren't set well then the boat will pick up or drop off rpms comes the 3 ball, in my case to the tune of 200-300rpms. Said more smiply, if the table values aren't set properly a diver could bring the skier into the course and change speed half way through by 1mph to get the end course time always perfect. And then, add to that the "N" and "L" and the crew weight values to further adjust the timing through the course.

So, my comment was based in that the above table values aren't on display when you first fire up the boat and they weren't highly publicized last spring and so a number of skiers got hacked up because the boat had to change speed in the middle of their run. Set up well, I have heard that the pull is very good.

[zad0030]

Whats bad is that the only way to get ZO is by buying on a new boat. Especially for indmar owners because we have to add a $600 ECM in order for it to work on our boats. Which Is not something Im going to be doing on my brand new RLXI. Even if it is no longer the standard we are hopefully putting in PPSG this winter.

I have read about the new Rev X and I think its a great Idea.

Most people don't know which letter to chose when leaving the starting dock. Most people I talked to didnt notice any difference. One guy said the sound of the engine when coming out of the ball had him scared and he really held on tight but never felt any pull, that really messed up his day.

[skislut]

I was down at Coble's at the end of September and Chris Eller was testing some new program for ZO. He mentioned to someone else in the group that there were going to be numerous setups possible, like up to 13 - I wasnt sure exactly what he was talking about in that respect and didnt quiz him out about it.

During my day down there I skied behind one of their Mastercrafts with PP Classic (which I'm used to) and I skied fine. Then they switched me to the Mastercraft with the ZO -- I could tell right away there was a difference in pull as when I pulled against the boat you could hear it punch the throttle. Definitely a difference.

I put PPSG in my boat this spring. Obviously being early we werent up to mid-season form, but we all mentioned that it felt pretty much the same as PP Classic. After we figure out you had to switch to ABT to get actual times, the system was usually within a tight tolerance. What killed us with PPSG was it going haywire in the turns and not getting caught up before the entry gates -- 2 runs out of 6 you entered at 24mph or at 42mph. So we kicked it back to Classic mode and have run with it since.

[M3Fan]

What killed us with PPSG was it going haywire in the turns and not getting caught up before the entry gates -- 2 runs out of 6 you entered at 24mph or at 42mph. So we kicked it back to Classic mode and have run with it since.

The key here is to not let PPSG kick in or "beep" in the turn. Only when you come out of the turn should you let it engage. If it engages in the turn, you'll be in for a crazy ride.

[skisix@38]

So for those that don't ski behind ZO on a regular basis, start at setting "B1". That will get you a good pull that feels very similar to the PPc pull you've been getting.

All those stories about SG are the reason why it's terrible for tournaments. I am still hopeful that they come up with thier new rev of program and that it feels like ZO and that it's easy to use fromt he drivers end. I didn't really mind adjusting the rpm inbetween passes...

[Toby]

What killed us with PPSG was it going haywire in the turns and not getting caught up before the entry gates -- 2 runs out of 6 you entered at 24mph or at 42mph. So we kicked it back to Classic mode and have run with it since.

The key here is to not let PPSG kick in or "beep" in the turn. Only when you come out of the turn should you let it engage. If it engages in the turn, you'll be in for a crazy ride.

i dont think it was purely a SG problem (in skisluts case it obviously is though). running a dbw boat in trick mode loved to go mental on the gas if you didnt disengage it spinning. IMO PP and malibu/indmar never got dbw fully sorted. you hear all too often about it going nuts. heck, you cant even have the stereo going while skiing because the rpms change with the beat because it sucks amps.

As ZO is in the business of (parent company) engine management they know what they are doing. i havnt heard a story relating to ZO going too nuts like PPSG/dbw does. But at the same time i dont see the need for a speed control system to take over parameters and functions such as fuel management and ignition timing (which is basically why it is a dbw only system). but then again, PP never really got it dialed (just look at bu's and 05 MCs) and perhaps it is more simple from a computing integration aspect for the ZO computer to completely take over from the ECM? why else would it need to? too many questions not enough answers.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Toby