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Boat Abuse


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So, Onlyinbooards is trying to help Keith Lyman sell his boat but a discussion is going on about abuse in the poor guy's add. So let's move the discussion out here.

I personally don't think running a 23LSV, propped right, with 4-5K worth of ballast is really not much different than someone running a VLX with 3-4K worth of ballast or even stock ballast and the wedge.

Secondly, I also think surfing is just as much, or more, work for an engine than wakeboarding. Why? It is harder for an engine to run 2400 rpm vs. 3200rpm and maintain a consistant speed.

Any thoughts? am I completely lost?

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Why? It is harder for an engine to run 2400 rpm vs. 3200rpm and maintain a consistant speed.

Any thoughts? am I completely lost?

What is harder about the engine running one speed vs another... the engine is running, that is what it does. Always wonder what "working harder" really means, and it doesn't really do anything different to maintain speed

I do like that you tried to move the discussion off his sale thread, nice move

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Here's my agrument on the subject. The ad gets posted up here on the crew and if I know something about the boat I'm going to say something about it. He might not have abused the boat but the previous owner (Nunn) arguably did. I had seen that article some time ago and remembered that was the same boat. If someone was running 5K pounds of LEAD weight above and beyond the MLS water weight and you were looking at the boat wouldn't you want to know about it?

All this lead weight was above the floor, the boat is not built for that. I can see where people might want to add a couple hundred pounds here and there of lead to dial in there wakeboard wake but seriously 5K pounds (as stated in the article) can't be good for a boat.

So do you think if the boat was ever trailered anywhere when Nunn owned it he took all that lead out? So all that weight pounding on that trailer down the road as well.

I wasn't going to let a crewmember get interested in this boat without knowing the facts that's all. He advertised that boat up on here as being Lymans, why not include that article with it as well?

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Why? It is harder for an engine to run 2400 rpm vs. 3200rpm and maintain a consistant speed.

Any thoughts? am I completely lost?

What is harder about the engine running one speed vs another... the engine is running, that is what it does. Always wonder what "working harder" really means, and it doesn't really do anything different to maintain speed

I do like that you tried to move the discussion off his sale thread, nice move

A motor's "sweet spot" is generally higher up in the powerband. For example the big block makes 450hp, but it does that closer to 4500 rpms(just a guess.) So at 2400 rpms the engine is at full throttle to maintain speed yet at 3200 rpms may only be at 2/3 throttle to maintain speed.

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I dont think it is really the RPMs that make the difference but the load at the RPMs. More load increases the stress on the engine. A heaver loaded boat also takes more throttle input to get to the same RPM or speed compared to an unloaded boat. More throttle equals more gas and more gas blowby causing dirty oil etc.... This would be comparable to the extra wear and tear you get on your vehicle when towing the boat.

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IMO....it's inappropriate to make comments about a boat for sale that you don't have firsthand experience with. If you know the boat in question, have seen how it is treated day in & out that's one thing. But to speculate based on what you've seen written about it on the internet? That's inappropriate at best.

And Sac is right, thank you for moving the discussion out of that thread.

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When I hear boat abuse, I'm thinking along the lines of a boat that doesn't have proper maintenance and/or is allowed to get the gelcoat and vinyl destroyed. If the boat has had proper and regular maintenance then I wouldn't care about the load on the boat. The care and maintenance is much more important IMO.

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When I hear boat abuse, I'm thinking along the lines of a boat that doesn't have proper maintenance and/or is allowed to get the gelcoat and vinyl destroyed. If the boat has had proper and regular maintenance then I wouldn't care about the load on the boat. The care and maintenance is much more important IMO.

And that's the crux of the problem: everyone has a different definition of abuse. The flip side to that is that everyone has a different definition of "immaculate" or "perfect" condition. (If I had a dime for every time I've seen those terms used when they clearly should not be, IMO....;)).

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IMO....it's inappropriate to make comments about a boat for sale that you don't have firsthand experience with. If you know the boat in question, have seen how it is treated day in & out that's one thing. But to speculate based on what you've seen written about it on the internet? That's inappropriate at best.

I completely agree with Tracie. Sometimes we are quite rude without intending to be so.

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I would think there is noting wrong with directing someone to the article, so they could be aware of the boat history. Then, the buyer can decide if it matters or not.

A question i do have is what is the max allowable weight (USCG) for the boat and passengers and cargo, and what does Malibu say the maximum design loads are? general sense is 5,000 pounds of load, plus people, would exceed the certified limits.

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Unless you have personally seen how these guys treat their boats, sorry you shouldn't say anything. If you have not physically been IN that boat you should not be saying anything about how it was treated. You can speculate all you want, but that's all it is....plus your just hating on someone

But this brings out a bunch of other questions....

is surfing worse for a motor than wakeboarding...IMHO yes, the angle of the motor is much more extreme since you are not on plane and essentially starving the top half of the motor of oil more-so than if the boat were on plane.

Is there a trade off for running more weight in a boat but keeping it on the water? Honestly if this boat sat most of its life in the water, that's much better on the hull than sitting on trailer bunks. Now what's the trade off, 1000lbs of weight, 3000 lbs? who knows?

Honestly, if I were in the market, provided the price was comparable, this would be a contender. It has all the options, a great color scheme, and the best motor option possible for what I would do with it. Pending a physical inspection for Gel coat cracks, compression test, etc. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Now, it seems that most on here (this website) baby their boat. They look at it more like an asset than a tool for fun....which is okay if that makes you feel good. Personally I buy a boat for enjoyment, not for investment. There comes a point were the cost/benefit of certain upkeep things just isnt worth it IMHO. I have been in boats where the owners are absolutely anal about everything...no fun. What does that get them in the long run...another 1-2k on the sale in a few years?

Edited by Liquidmx
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Good point,

Some people spend a lot of time babying their boats, and if you look at it just in dollars, your probably right. But I think most people that are that anal about their boats do so because that is their personality, not because they are going to get more resale. And the ones that I know get a lot of enjoyment and fun out of it. To each their own

I bought my boat from one of those guys, I try to do my best but he takes the cake.

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Now, it seems that most on here (this website) baby their boat. They look at it more like an asset than a tool for fun....which is okay if that makes you feel good. Personally I buy a boat for enjoyment, not for investment.

Amen.

In my book it's no different than 4 wheelin in a 4x4. Or towing with a pickup truck. If either have been done to excess, then a descent mechanic can tell. And as a buyer, I'd walk away.

But since it's not any of my business so I stay out of it.

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It makes me sick to my stomach to think that Keith Lyman, a guy who has spent his life putting body on the line for wakeboarding (and in my opinion, the SICKEST rider on the planet), has to deal with this type of an issue. Specifically, buying and selling boats. But furthermore, having a bunch of people who don't know HIM and don't know HIS BOAT......talking trash about the situation in an internet chat room! C'mon.

First, would someone PLEASE step up and sponser this guy? (malibu) The fact that he has been riding behind a Malibu, and using it (to Malibu's advantage) in films like Push Process for a while now, should be reason enough for Malibu to step up and get the guy into a boat! That way he wouldn't have to deal with this. Second, if you are specifically asked by the potential buyer for your opinion on the matter, then give it. Otherwise, keep your nose out of other people's business. Last, would someone PLEASE step up and SPONSER THIS GUY!!?!??! :) Have ya seen him ride? Have you heard how he trains? Have you seen how he puts his life on the line to progress the sport (i.e. Wake to Rail gap)? So what if he's not a contest guru. This guy deserves it.

Once again....it makes me ill to think how easy life is for some of the knuckleheads in the NFL/NBA when a guy like Lyman can't even sell his frickn boat without issue.

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I spent 2 days in that boat last summer, when G Nunn had it. It ran like a top, and he was good at keeping it cleaned up. Gerry was pulling it behind his diesel RV, and it got washed as soon as he rolled into town. He also had a complete 50 hr service done, as he did every time he was in town for Just Ride. I personally drove the boat as well, no issues at the time.

I can't vouch for Lyman, but Gerry took good care of it from what I saw. Gerry is by far the best inboard driver I have ever been around.

I have a pic somewhere too, will dig it up.

Edit, found it.....

post-195-1224341946_thumb.jpg

Edited by Madmanacrossthewater
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Good point,

Some people spend a lot of time babying their boats, and if you look at it just in dollars, your probably right. But I think most people that are that anal about their boats do so because that is their personality, not because they are going to get more resale. And the ones that I know get a lot of enjoyment and fun out of it. To each their own

I bought my boat from one of those guys, I try to do my best but he takes the cake.

Agreed, I am one of those "anal" people I guess you could say. Not just w/ my Bu, but w/ everything that I own. My wife and I work very hard for the things that we have and really enjoy keeping them as nice as the day we bought them. From our home to our vehicles (I wax them both every time they are washed, including the lugnuts and between all the grille slots Crazy.gif ) to everything else in our life (Inc the Bu). My main concern has never been the resale value (however, I do feel it helps) but just the fact that I like things to be neat, tidy and well cared for. Oh, and I get plenty of offers to buy my stuff when I'm finished using it and have had great luck in selling things quickly and for a better price b/c everyone that knows me, knows that my stuff is very well cared for! This is not to say that I do not use my Bu (or my truck for that matter). I have been known to "overload" our boat and truly bought it to use it. That does not mean that I do not take care of it!

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Why? It is harder for an engine to run 2400 rpm vs. 3200rpm and maintain a consistant speed.

Any thoughts? am I completely lost?

What is harder about the engine running one speed vs another... the engine is running, that is what it does. Always wonder what "working harder" really means, and it doesn't really do anything different to maintain speed

I do like that you tried to move the discussion off his sale thread, nice move

A motor's "sweet spot" is generally higher up in the powerband. For example the big block makes 450hp, but it does that closer to 4500 rpms(just a guess.) So at 2400 rpms the engine is at full throttle to maintain speed yet at 3200 rpms may only be at 2/3 throttle to maintain speed.

This isn't a car, where the load is transferred to the drivetrain... any excess load in a boat is lost through slippage of the prop & prop-wash through the water. Where HP is made, really doesn't change the "wear or work" - just a function of where it is most efficient.

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Why? It is harder for an engine to run 2400 rpm vs. 3200rpm and maintain a consistant speed.

Any thoughts? am I completely lost?

What is harder about the engine running one speed vs another... the engine is running, that is what it does. Always wonder what "working harder" really means, and it doesn't really do anything different to maintain speed

I do like that you tried to move the discussion off his sale thread, nice move

A motor's "sweet spot" is generally higher up in the powerband. For example the big block makes 450hp, but it does that closer to 4500 rpms(just a guess.) So at 2400 rpms the engine is at full throttle to maintain speed yet at 3200 rpms may only be at 2/3 throttle to maintain speed.

This isn't a car, where the load is transferred to the drivetrain... any excess load in a boat is lost through slippage of the prop & prop-wash through the water. Where HP is made, really doesn't change the "wear or work" - just a function of where it is most efficient.

Just another tidbit then on extra ballast....

I have my Vride setup with the bow bag(+200 in lead), MLS, and a 750 in each rear locker and the motor turns about 3100-3300 rpm(OJ 468 prop)

Last year I ran stock ballast and wedge and turned the same rpm(OJ 475 prop.)

So is my boat beat because I run extra weight vs. stock +wedge? I do take good care of my boat and it is real tough to keep it clean considering I might have 1-3 6yr olds on my boat at any given time.

FYI - granola bars are not a good snack :)

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Amen BS001! I get the impression that Malibu "hooked" Lyman up in some regard as I am sure he got a good price from Gerry (who is sponsored by Malibu). However someone needs to step up and full on sponsor that kid, SOOOOOO much work ethic and coverage I don't get why someone wouldn't, especially Malibu.

Agreed, Lyman deserves to sell his boat without issue, there are A LOT of worse shape boats on the market, people just have wishful thinking that they werent abused at some point.

In regards to the whole point I made about maintenance etc. To each his own, for sure. I also enjoy occasionally working on my boat, its relaxing and enjoyable. I think some people have a false impression of what these boats can take. I too had the same impression until I stepped into several pro-riders, up and comers, etc. boats and saw how far things can get pushed on a regular basis without issue. These boats are TOUGH, really really tough! That experience really made me re-evaluate how I treat my boat. For me the more hours I log a season the better.

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Amen BS001! I get the impression that Malibu "hooked" Lyman up in some regard as I am sure he got a good price from Gerry (who is sponsored by Malibu). However someone needs to step up and full on sponsor that kid, SOOOOOO much work ethic and coverage I don't get why someone wouldn't, especially Malibu.

Lyman was either sponsored by Malibu, or at least had some connection in the past when he had a Malibu in the past. The relationship didn't work out so well when he ended up sinking the boat and didn't show a lot of remorse. I think he would be the first to admit that he had some growing up to do, which to his credit he seems to have done. It took awhile for sponsors to warm back up to him, such as Liquid Force. Oakley has stuck with him throughout, but LF kept him on a partial sponsorship for some time until he could prove that he had grown up enough to represent them properly.

I don't know where he and Malibu stand at this point, but there is some baggage.

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I have just two things to say.

1) I totally think surfing and having the boat motor at an extreme list is bad for the motor.

2) I just read this today on a motorcycle forum about their rules for posting...

1- Please do NOT make your opinion known in the seller's ad

* Negative comments about a member's product, pricing, etc. will not be tolerated and such posts may be deleted by moderators. Please keep these comments to yourself.

* If you disagree with a price, keep it to yourself. The seller has set the price. If you don't like it, don't buy it and move on. If you really feel strongly about it, then PM the seller.

* If you are interested in an item, feel free to PM, email or contact the seller privately. Feel free to post if you need clarification... however, your post should be in line with above mentioned rules.

* If you are aware of a serious issue with an ad (SPAM, stolen goods, a frame damaged bike being advertised as a 'never crashed' bike, etc.) please PM a moderator about it.

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[ The relationship didn't work out so well when he ended up sinking the boat and didn't show a lot of remorse.

He sank a boat? Whats the story?

Hurricane came through and Lyman left the boat out, plus something about two broken transmissions...I heard it was Tige. Personally I don't see what the issue is. Dontknow.gif

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As a first year Malibu owner I will give my two cents.

For those of you who want to rip on the guy because you think he overloaded or was hard on his boat......You should STFU.

Since I have joined this place I have seen countless pics of boats loaded up making kick a** waves. I have come to the conclusion that's what these boats are for ( with the exception of the ski models ). I could be wrong, however it's luck of the draw. There are guys who baby their boats and they still break and then there the guys who load the crap out of theirs all of the time and never have any problems......Go figure.

If you are one of those guys who don't want to add any extra ballast or use the wedge for fear of damage to your boat, my guess is that you are some kind of a poser who probably should have bought a pontoon to ride around in while you sip your wine and listen to your classical music. Or at the least you should not criticize the people who do load up their boats.

I have two sons who post on this forum also. We really get a kick out of some of you who think about the stupidest things to whine about. To each his own.

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Bret, it was a Tige and a hurricane rolled in. It was his first season in Orlando and he had no clue about how things go down.

Obski, If your talking about boat abuse (by definition of what most of the peeps on this forum think abuse is), EVERY SINGLE pro rider has sunk or broken AT LEAST 1-2 boats, probably many more. Malibu currently sponsors arguably the HARDEST person on boats.

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