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MN_LSV

Surfing w/2003 23LSV

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MN_LSV

This spring, we bought a 2003 Wakesetter LSV, with the 8100 425hp. We have tried several surf setups and can't seem to get a good pocket.

We filled the center and surf side rear factory ballast, 750 in rear locker, 440 on seat along the surf side, 440 in bow on surf side, 150 lb passanger surfside bow, 230 lb driver (surfside), 190lb passanger on surf side rear and wedge down. Had to go at least 11-12 mph for wave to form.

We got a tall wave with small pocket near the platform.

Tried the setup with 750 in bow and 440 in rear ballast with not much wave change.

We use a 2007 Liquid Force Venture 5' and a 2008 Phase 5 Oogle.

Any input on creating a good surf wake behind a 2003 LSV would be greatly appreciated.

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JasonK

From what I've read, it sounds like you need even more weight up front.

Shallow water makes it hard to get a clean wave too.

Did you try it without the wedge down?

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jtrovato

Everyone says weight up front will help, but since you have an older LSV with a different hull than the newer VLX's, I would try moving your extra person in the bow to the back and see what that does. I think maybe you have too much weight up front. I have an 07 vRide and when we surf, I fill up a 750 in the surf side locker, the stock 500 lb midship tank, another tube sac under the seats along the surf side (about 350 lbs maybe?) and then depending on how many people are out, I will put one person in the bow and two or three in the back. If I have more people, then I'll put another in the bow. I tried with more weight up front one day and the wave just wasn't giving me the push that it gives with more weight in the back. I'd try it out and see what happens. Also, I noticed you didn't mention the midship ballast being filled. If you have one, you'll want to fill that up too. It's just a matter of seeing where the weight needs to be to give you the best wave with your hull. You sound like you have enough weight to make it work, although I'm sure more wouldn't hurt.

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Brad B

I have the same boat and have been surfing with great success since the day we got it brand new.

I replaced the MLS tanks with 750's - and replaced the pupms with 1100s

Regular side example:

750 in the port trunk

2 - 400's under the port side seats

350 in the ski locker

1000 in the bow

wedge down

For teaching and goofing off - speed is 10.7 to 11.5

For tricks and the like - speed is 13

Sometimes we add some (up to 1/2) to the other trunk sac to clean and lengthen the wave.

It also helps to have the VAB on the surf side - and maybe one hanging in a parasail seat off the tower.

On the goofy side I have a 400 under the starboard seat and 400 on top of the seat

tortureLSV.jpg

Edited by Brad B

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jtrovato

That's some nice VAB on the stern!!

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Brad B

A new 24 hr fitness just opened in town and I caught Alvie and John working out and trimming up.

Oh woe is me

LOL

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Ronnie
A new 24 hr fitness just opened in town and I caught Alvie and John working out and trimming up.

Oh woe is me

LOL

Maybe they will come to their senses and quit the gym... Thumbup.gif

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mrothwell
A new 24 hr fitness just opened in town and I caught Alvie and John working out and trimming up.

Oh woe is me

LOL

Maybe they will come to their senses and quit the gym... Thumbup.gif

Go buy a bunch of twinkies and chips and give them some "gifts".

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DC-STRO

What lake do you hang out at?

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tgaugh
I have the same boat and have been surfing with great success since the day we got it brand new.

Nobody does it better.

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MN_LSV
What lake do you hang out at?

We have a cabin between the north end of Mille Lacs and Aitkin, so on the weekend we are usually up there. We have been going to Spring Lake, near Prior Lake when we are in the cities.

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MN_LSV
I have the same boat and have been surfing with great success since the day we got it brand new.

I replaced the MLS tanks with 750's - and replaced the pupms with 1100s

Regular side example:

750 in the port trunk

2 - 400's under the port side seats

350 in the ski locker

1000 in the bow

wedge down

For teaching and goofing off - speed is 10.7 to 11.5

For tricks and the like - speed is 13

Sometimes we add some (up to 1/2) to the other trunk sac to clean and lengthen the wave.

It also helps to have the VAB on the surf side - and maybe one hanging in a parasail seat off the tower.

On the goofy side I have a 400 under the starboard seat and 400 on top of the seat

tortureLSV.jpg

We tested the boat speed with the GPS and we were reading about 2.5 mph fast. Our friend with ballast bags didn't ride with us this weekend, so we tried surfing (goofy) with MLS center and surfside rear filled, 150 lb VAB in surfside corner and 230 lb driver. Wake was ridable, but short. Had fun, but hard to find the pocket and keep it.

So we went and picked up (2) 540lbs launch pads.

300? MLS rear

540 in surfside rear locker

700 center/ski locker

540 on side seat behind driver

150 VAB surfside bow

No wedge

230 driver

11.7 mph

We were able to move the pocket back from the platform and it seemed to be better than our previous tries. When we add more weight, I think we will need to add both to the rear and the bow to keep the wake from getting steep and short. I'll ad pics soon

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sunscapeJeff

We have the same hull as well. Based on Brad's many suggestions over the years, we've found the best to work best:

Triangle bow sack in the front (1200 lbs)

Two 400 lb V-drive sacks in the rear surf-side locker

One 350 lb tube sack under surf-side seats

Everybody on the surf-side. If we have more the 6 or 7 people in the boat, I'll usually forgo the bow sack and just fill up center ski locker ballast, about 350 lbs, and get people to sit up in the bow.

We've found that the regular wave is MUCH better than the goofy wave. The goofy wave is still very much surfable. With the setup above, at the end of the rope we're still in the pocket. One of these days I'm going to add some more weight on the surf-side.

Oh yeah, one more thing. On my boat, I've found that if anyone is sitting on the sundeck, the wave gets really screwed up. It gets taller, but really short. Our best wave seems to occur when everyone is inside the boat. Not sure why, but it probably has something to do with throwing the prop angle off just enough the make the boat work harder. YMMV.

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MN_LSV
We have the same hull as well. Based on Brad's many suggestions over the years, we've found the best to work best:

Triangle bow sack in the front (1200 lbs)

Two 400 lb V-drive sacks in the rear surf-side locker

One 350 lb tube sack under surf-side seats

Everybody on the surf-side. If we have more the 6 or 7 people in the boat, I'll usually forgo the bow sack and just fill up center ski locker ballast, about 350 lbs, and get people to sit up in the bow.

We've found that the regular wave is MUCH better than the goofy wave. The goofy wave is still very much surfable. With the setup above, at the end of the rope we're still in the pocket. One of these days I'm going to add some more weight on the surf-side.

Oh yeah, one more thing. On my boat, I've found that if anyone is sitting on the sundeck, the wave gets really screwed up. It gets taller, but really short. Our best wave seems to occur when everyone is inside the boat. Not sure why, but it probably has something to do with throwing the prop angle off just enough the make the boat work harder. YMMV.

Our boat reacts like yours with extra weight on the sundeck. One of the first times we tried we had MLS rear surf side and center filled and about 5 VAB all around 180 on rear side and sundeck, plus about 300 VAB in bow and it was a tall but short wave. I think it is just a matter of getting the weight proportions in the rear and front balanced. The more we add to the back, the more we need in the front to keep the wave long.

Thanks for the input. We will keep messing around until we get it right.

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MN_LSV

Learning to wakesurf video with the following setup

300? MLS rear

540 in surfside rear locker

700 center/ski locker

540 on side seat behind driver

150 VAB surfside bow

No wedge

230 driver

11.7 mph

th_ASF_0027.jpg

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Surfin247
Learning to wakesurf video with the following setup

300? MLS rear

540 in surfside rear locker

700 center/ski locker

540 on side seat behind driver

150 VAB surfside bow

No wedge

230 driver

11.7 mph

th_ASF_0027.jpg

If i'm not mistaken, your boat has the Diamond hull. It is harder to sink. you will need a lot of weight, split it 60%driver and back(stern) the other 40% driver and forward9bow). All on surfside. I noticed you surf Darkside, try having someone lean out on starboard side to make the boat list to starboard. On that hull you need a good list to counter the lifting strake on the Diamond hull. Also, you need to be in water that is at least 10-12 ft. deep. I watched your video and your wake is very short for a 23 ft. boat. You have a pretty good amount of ballast,so it is either water depth or that hull is messing up your wake. Ideslly you want the rubrail in the water from stern to just behind driver seat when you are at surfing speed. Weight and list of the hull will accomplish this. Seeing how much weight you have I'm thinking list. Have your biggest VAB sit on gunnel and hold tower and lean out as far as pssible, two people if you got them. Also, water to rub rail when underway, not necessarily when stopped.

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Surfin247
Learning to wakesurf video with the following setup

300? MLS rear

540 in surfside rear locker

700 center/ski locker

540 on side seat behind driver

150 VAB surfside bow

No wedge

230 driver

11.7 mph

th_ASF_0027.jpg

If i'm not mistaken, your boat has the Diamond hull. It is harder to sink. you will need a lot of weight, split it 60%driver and back(stern) the other 40% driver and forward9bow). All on surfside. I noticed you surf Darkside, try having someone lean out on starboard side to make the boat list to starboard. On that hull you need a good list to counter the lifting strake on the Diamond hull. Also, you need to be in water that is at least 10-12 ft. deep. I watched your video and your wake is very short for a 23 ft. boat. You have a pretty good amount of ballast,so it is either water depth or that hull is messing up your wake. Ideslly you want the rubrail in the water from stern to just behind driver seat when you are at surfing speed. Weight and list of the hull will accomplish this. Seeing how much weight you have I'm thinking list. Have your biggest VAB sit on gunnel and hold tower and lean out as far as pssible, two people if you got them. Also, water to rub rail when underway, not necessarily when stopped.

I also nitced on my Vride that the wedge doesn't appear from the boat to make the wake any taller and it messesup the top crest of the wake, BUT it gives the the wake a LOT more DRIVE. Without it it is harder for a me to ride a smaller board without the wedge. When comparing with or without wedge, the wedge allows me to ride smaller boards or recover from tricks that leave you way back in the pocket. That exra drive saves you every time. I also have the old wedge that locks in the down position.

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Surfin247

In 2004 Malibu went to the v25 Wake hull on the 23ft Wakesetter LSV from the Diamond in 2003. Much easier to surf ,but not ski.

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MN_LSV

Surfin 247,

Thanks for the input. Yes this boat does have the DD hull. We too noticed the wedge messed up the look of the wave, so we put it back up. Will have to try it down now that we are getting a better feel for riding in the pocket and see if we notice the "push".

We were in 12-18 feet of water and had to turn into the wake to get it to clean up. Platfrom on surf side was about 10 inches underwater when not underway.

We didn't have much for VAB, so I think our next step is to load up with friends and figure out what exactly works and then try and duplicate it with sacks. We have a friend with a 750 and 2-440's, so we should have enough weight to start getting a decent wave a pocket once we start experimenting.

On a previous attempt, we had 300 rear MLS, 750 in rear locker, 440 on surf side seat, 700 center ski locker, 230 driver, 150 VAB in bow 180 VAB on sundeck and had the rub rail in the water. That wake was very high, steep and short. Needed more weight in bow.

Thanks again for the help. Hopefully we will get it down soon. Just ordered some pumps so we can get everything permenently installed when we decide where we want the weight.

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MN_LSV

Looking at everyones advice, and the sacks we have available, I think we will try this setup

40% front

750 in the bow

500 Ski locker MLS

1250

60% Rear

300 Rear MLS

540 Rear locker

440 Rear locker

540 on rear seat

1820

Wedge down

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Surfin247
Looking at everyones advice, and the sacks we have available, I think we will try this setup

40% front

750 in the bow

500 Ski locker MLS

1250

60% Rear

300 Rear MLS

540 Rear locker

440 Rear locker

540 on rear seat

1820

Wedge down

The 440 on opposite side of surfside might help sink the boat, but it might counter your ability to get the boat listing to the surfside. if the 440 rear is a hard tank play around letting water out as your going to see what works. If it is a bag try putting it on the floor on the surfside. This will lower the hull and also allow you to list the boat easier to surfside. The 540 on rear seat, if it is along the back try tieing it along the seat behind the driver. The 540 should fit along the starboardside on the seat you just have to be careful when filling that the bag does not slip off the seat. I used ski rope around the bag and then to tower to stop it from rolling off. I found filling ski locker MLS first,the rear surfside locker second then third the bag on seat behind driver with the fill opening towards the stern. Lastly the bow section. This allows you to get the bags full without spilling as much water. Use the people to move around and see what works, also don't forget to list the boat to surfside. If most of the weight is on the surfside it shouldn't take much to get the boat to lean to surfside. Also, speed of boat can help clean up the wake and lengthen the pocket. Faster= cleaner longer pocket shorter wake Slower= taller wake shorter pocket and more white water at top of wake. 3000 lbs should be more than enough weight. Now its just positioning, listing and boat speed. Stay in deep water with your boat weight ,15-20 ft deep, as much as possible. My Vride 21' has 2000 lbs 500 inbow 500 in center 500 on seat behind driver and 500 in rear locker. With 1 or 2 200lb peeps sitting on gunnel leaning out. It throws 2.5/3 ft wake with pocket 8-10ft long and pretty clean on starboard side. The port side with same set up is insane 3ft wake and 15-20ft pocket and a clean lip that for about 10ft off the swim platform flows over to the starboardside ( no curl) great for lip slides and for getting air with no curl for the board to have to cut through. Eventhough the curls look great from the boat unless you can actually fit your body inside a curl all they do is crash on you and your board and slow you down. So when you drive around with your set up you should be looking for a wake that overlaps to the otherside(way from surfside) and is as clean on top as you can get it. One last thing could be prop if you have a 3 blade. 4 blade tends to help keep wake cleaner when surfing on starboard. One other thing to try is your setup on port side and surf it backside( your back to the wake) so your stance is the same your just facing away from the wake. Our boats our LH rotation so the port side will be better to surf. I do portside both backside and frontside on my friends MC 230vrs and X2 because their boats will not make any kind of Darkside(starboard) wake.

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Surfin247
Looking at everyones advice, and the sacks we have available, I think we will try this setup

40% front

750 in the bow

500 Ski locker MLS

1250

60% Rear

300 Rear MLS

540 Rear locker

440 Rear locker

540 on rear seat

1820

Wedge down

The 440 on opposite side of surfside might help sink the boat, but it might counter your ability to get the boat listing to the surfside. if the 440 rear is a hard tank play around letting water out as your going to see what works. If it is a bag try putting it on the floor on the surfside. This will lower the hull and also allow you to list the boat easier to surfside. The 540 on rear seat, if it is along the back try tieing it along the seat behind the driver. The 540 should fit along the starboardside on the seat you just have to be careful when filling that the bag does not slip off the seat. I used ski rope around the bag and then to tower to stop it from rolling off. I found filling ski locker MLS first,the rear surfside locker second then third the bag on seat behind driver with the fill opening towards the stern. Lastly the bow section. This allows you to get the bags full without spilling as much water. Use the people to move around and see what works, also don't forget to list the boat to surfside. If most of the weight is on the surfside it shouldn't take much to get the boat to lean to surfside. Also, speed of boat can help clean up the wake and lengthen the pocket. Faster= cleaner longer pocket shorter wake Slower= taller wake shorter pocket and more white water at top of wake. 3000 lbs should be more than enough weight. Now its just positioning, listing and boat speed. Stay in deep water with your boat weight ,15-20 ft deep, as much as possible. My Vride 21' has 2000 lbs 500 inbow 500 in center 500 on seat behind driver and 500 in rear locker. With 1 or 2 200lb peeps sitting on gunnel leaning out. It throws 2.5/3 ft wake with pocket 8-10ft long and pretty clean on starboard side. The port side with same set up is insane 3ft wake and 15-20ft pocket and a clean lip that for about 10ft off the swim platform flows over to the starboardside ( no curl) great for lip slides and for getting air with no curl for the board to have to cut through. Eventhough the curls look great from the boat unless you can actually fit your body inside a curl all they do is crash on you and your board and slow you down. So when you drive around with your set up you should be looking for a wake that overlaps to the otherside(way from surfside) and is as clean on top as you can get it. One last thing could be prop if you have a 3 blade. 4 blade tends to help keep wake cleaner when surfing on starboard. One other thing to try is your setup on port side and surf it backside( your back to the wake) so your stance is the same your just facing away from the wake. Our boats our LH rotation so the port side will be better to surf. I do portside both backside and frontside on my friends MC 230vrs and X2 because their boats will not make any kind of Darkside(starboard) wake. You can see our set ups hereSplinewakesurfing Edited by Surfin247

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MN_LSV

More good info. I think we are going out tomorrow night to check it out. We should have no problem staying in 25 ft of water in the lake we are going to.

I was planning on trying to get both the 540 bag and a 440 bag in the surfside locker and fill the 440 as much as possible.

The other 540 fits perfectly on the starboard seat behind the driver, that is where we plan to put it, I guess I put rear seat by mistake.

We have the stock 300 MLS on the port side if we want to mess around and see if that helps sink the boat. We have the 8.1L 425hp engine, so I think we have some additional rear weight with the bigger engine.

We have a 4 blade prop.

All but one of our normal crew ride on the "darkside" (and he hasn't tried surfing yet), so I guess we will see how we do on the starboard setup.

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Surfin247
More good info. I think we are going out tomorrow night to check it out. We should have no problem staying in 25 ft of water in the lake we are going to.

I was planning on trying to get both the 540 bag and a 440 bag in the surfside locker and fill the 440 as much as possible.

The other 540 fits perfectly on the starboard seat behind the driver, that is where we plan to put it, I guess I put rear seat by mistake.

We have the stock 300 MLS on the port side if we want to mess around and see if that helps sink the boat. We have the 8.1L 425hp engine, so I think we have some additional rear weight with the bigger engine.

We have a 4 blade prop.

All but one of our normal crew ride on the "darkside" (and he hasn't tried surfing yet), so I guess we will see how we do on the starboard setup.

If you have stock 300 on starboard rear locker then the 540 on top should be enough (840). Two options for the remaining 440 1.) put on floor on surf side. OR 2.) fill and put on top of sundeck with a little bit hanging over gunnel on surfside, you will need to strap it to the ski pylon at the front of sack and the back part of sack strap to the center stern tow handle that will help with listing the boat. Try the floor first, the sundeck option might be to much weight at the rear of the boat. I'm not sure because I've never weighted a Diamond hull, but most say you need addtl. weight to counter the lift from that hull design. But, stock(300) plus 540+440 all in the back locker is way too much. Plus you will never be able to fill the 440 much, so the floor is the better option because you can fill it full and it gives the boat a lower center of gravity. It just doesn't help as much with listing the boat. The 247 uses just 750 in rear locker, 750 on surfside seat or two 400's , 500 mid MLS, bow 300 stock and 750 bow surfside seat. Total around 3000 and she is good to go.

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Surfin247
Learning to wakesurf video with the following setup

300? MLS rear

540 in surfside rear locker

700 center/ski locker

540 on side seat behind driver

150 VAB surfside bow

No wedge

230 driver

11.7 mph

th_ASF_0027.jpg

If i'm not mistaken, your boat has the Diamond hull. It is harder to sink. you will need a lot of weight, split it 60%driver and back(stern) the other 40% driver and forward9bow). All on surfside. I noticed you surf Darkside, try having someone lean out on starboard side to make the boat list to starboard. On that hull you need a good list to counter the lifting strake on the Diamond hull. Also, you need to be in water that is at least 10-12 ft. deep. I watched your video and your wake is very short for a 23 ft. boat. You have a pretty good amount of ballast,so it is either water depth or that hull is messing up your wake. Ideslly you want the rubrail in the water from stern to just behind driver seat when you are at surfing speed. Weight and list of the hull will accomplish this. Seeing how much weight you have I'm thinking list. Have your biggest VAB sit on gunnel and hold tower and lean out as far as pssible, two people if you got them. Also, water to rub rail when underway, not necessarily when stopped.

I also nitced on my Vride that the wedge doesn't appear from the boat to make the wake any taller and it messesup the top crest of the wake, BUT it gives the the wake a LOT more DRIVE. Without it it is harder for a me to ride a smaller board without the wedge. When comparing with or without wedge, the wedge allows me to ride smaller boards or recover from tricks that leave you way back in the pocket. That exra drive saves you every time. I also have the old wedge that locks in the down position.

Went back and looked at your video, don't drive in such a tight circle. You actually want to drive straight and only give a tiny turn towards surfside when your rider is having trouble staying in the pocket ,that is when you are rope free. Test your setup while driving straight to figure out what changes are best and don't be afraid to experiment. Remember to use your VAB's to test changes, it is easier than moving sacks.

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